Kentucky 84, Illinois 75 Postgame

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#551      
blackdog
OrangeBlue98 said:
I know I'm going to sound all Norman Dale/Hoosiers here, but I don't understand what value just having someone stand in the corner does for an offense and never will. It's why I don't like the five-out offense. Basketball is supposed to be about five players moving to get open shots. Just having someone stand in the corner clearly goes against that.

There has to be a way where you can still have ways of maintaining floor spacing while allowing those players to actually participate in the offense. I know Auburn runs a lot of "flex" sets where a baseline screen is set. That at least gets that player in the corner moving around some. Watching someone like Humrichous just standing in the corner (particularly when we all knew he wasn't going to hit that shot anyway) got so frustrating.
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Because if the guy in the corner is a dangerous shooter their defender can't help off them on drives or post touches and generally has to play tighter to them. The reason we were able to have so many back cuts and drives for layups is because of that spacing. If they do help, it's an easy kickout for an open 3.
 
#553      
Second place is 1st loser
Snoopy said:
Expectations matter. Just a few years ago we were happy to get invited, even with an early exit as it was confirmation the program was headed up.

This year, very different vibe coming of the elite 8 last year.
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Vibe is one thing, reality is another. This team pretty much met expectations from the prognosticators before the season started. We weren't ranked, we were picked to finish in the middle to top half of the conference and we did.

Hopefully, we never have to go through the hockey line change of a roster ever again. Replacing 10 faces, with 10 totally new faces from all over the globe and main rotational pieces being freshmen was difficult enough. Once things seemed to be coming together, all of the craziness started with illnesses, news about an injury to KJ being broken 10 minutes before a game starts, news about Morez breaking his wrist on a game day.....it was nothing that I've ever seen before. What can you possibly do about that stuff other than just ride it out?

We actually have a returning core next year, which feels like a luxury. I don't ever want us to have to go with a mass turnover like that again. The likliehood of success there is minimal. We're not Duke and Cooper Flagg didn't come walking through the door.
The biggest takeaway from this year, is the importance of roster construction, CONTINUITY and being experienced and physically ready to compete at the level we all covet.

Teams like Kansas and UNC.....those were abject failures of seasons because those were final four or bust expectations.

We were kind of sitting there with Rutgers. They have two NBA, READY picks heading into game 1. No tournament of any kind is a failure.

This has been a tournament of chalks. There were no really thrilling upsets. There were a ton of blowouts. The teams left, for the most part(especially from the Big Ten angle), are teams with a solid core of a cast of characters. That wasn't us and I think that the season played out how most thought it would.

Meeting expectations is one thing, but setting them is another. To me, navigating the portal, getting that ridiculous extra COVID year out of the way, the NCAA trying to shorten the portal windows....just have to roll with this until the dust settles. We tried doing things differently, which I can appreciate, but obviously, we won't do that again because outside of Duke and bringing in a generational talent.....it's not going to work.
 
#555      
bluemountain
Big Jack said:
I am in no means a talent scout for the NBA. Heck I do not even like watching it anymore. However I will go out on a limb as I already did in saying that the only reason you will know who these 2 are in 5 years is because they both played for the Illini. If they were to see the real picture and not just the cash$$ they would be smart and play themselves into lottery positions, then they would have a chance at big bucks and long profitable careers. I just don't see that future in them without a lot more development, body, sole and intelligence. I had bright hopes for KJ but his inability to control the ball and terrible passes will lead him back to play his career in Europe. They both need 1-2 more seasons in CBB.
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if I'm a player who is talented enough to be drafted in the first round, I00% I go pro as soon as I can. You get access to the best coaching, the best facilities, the best training, you compete against the best players day in and day out - it is a no brainer. Do you really think another year playing for Brad Underwood will prepare him better than a year playing for Greg Popovich or Steve Kerr?
 
#557      
IlliniFandom
That was a tough game to watch. More here just to vent/therapy than anything else. We have had issues all season matching up with strong bigs and more athletic teams. Same thing happened here...it was a show stopper whenever we drove the paint and they had their big man there just waiting to swat the ball away. We were lazy or not ready for the athleticism of UK and gave up easy turnovers too many times. Love KB's aggressiveness as he and tommy seemed like the only ones out there competing and putting things on the line for the win. I'm confused more than ever now about KJ's draft stock now that he has played an elite defender. His potential is definitely there, but seems a year further away from being able to be an impact on the NBA. I could see a pathway where he could benefit from another year in college, get bigger, get stronger, really own the college game, but I can also not blame him for being a first round pick and taking that path and doing it full-time. Plus I really think he was hampered by his left arm all season. If you look at a foul where he was knocked to the ground against Xavier, you could see he was nursing his left arm a little.

I can't wait until we can pontificate and be completely wrong about what a team in 2025-2026 looks like, but here's my thoughts:
1) KJ and WR gone to NBA
2) TI, KB, TW, MJ, JD run it back again
3) BU goes and gets veterans to fill the gaps, especially a more traditional big that can be big, fill the lane, offer up a different look, but isn't going to threaten TI for time. Can go against these monsters that Duke and KU have
4) at risk for leaving: TyR, DGL, Booth
 
#558      
sacraig
Second place is 1st loser said:
Vibe is one thing, reality is another. This team pretty much met expectations from the prognosticators before the season started. We weren't ranked, we were picked to finish in the middle to top half of the conference and we did.

Hopefully, we never have to go through the hockey line change of a roster ever again. Replacing 10 faces, with 10 totally new faces from all over the globe and main rotational pieces being freshmen was difficult enough. Once things seemed to be coming together, all of the craziness started with illnesses, news about an injury to KJ being broken 10 minutes before a game starts, news about Morez breaking his wrist on a game day.....it was nothing that I've ever seen before. What can you possibly do about that stuff other than just ride it out?

We actually have a returning core next year, which feels like a luxury. I don't ever want us to have to go with a mass turnover like that again. The likliehood of success there is minimal. We're not Duke and Cooper Flagg didn't come walking through the door.
The biggest takeaway from this year, is the importance of roster construction, CONTINUITY and being experienced and physically ready to compete at the level we all covet.

Teams like Kansas and UNC.....those were abject failures of seasons because those were final four or bust expectations.

We were kind of sitting there with Rutgers. They have two NBA, READY picks heading into game 1. No tournament of any kind is a failure.

This has been a tournament of chalks. There were no really thrilling upsets. There were a ton of blowouts. The teams left, for the most part(especially from the Big Ten angle), are teams with a solid core of a cast of characters. That wasn't us and I think that the season played out how most thought it would.

Meeting expectations is one thing, but setting them is another. To me, navigating the portal, getting that ridiculous extra COVID year out of the way, the NCAA trying to shorten the portal windows....just have to roll with this until the dust settles. We tried doing things differently, which I can appreciate, but obviously, we won't do that again because outside of Duke and bringing in a generational talent.....it's not going to work.
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So the talking heads are idiots who are never right and always have it out for Illinois... Unless they're needed to help justify a season that didn't meet expectations.

I don't care what the external expectations are. Internal to the university and fan base, we expect more. And we had the talent level to achieve more and this team still didn't put it together. I don't think treating this season as disappointing is unfair.
 
#559      
rbse
I think we just ended up getting out coached, like we did last year
 
#560      
Chad Fleck
1m4tr said:
You didn’t see the guy’s knee hit KJ’s forearm first which loosened his grip on the ball so that when the guy’s hand hit the ball it went flying? You aren’t allowed to play defense w your knee on someone’s forearm! That was as clear as a day a foul on Kentucky. 3 free throws.
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Ahh, I see now. I was just watching for the hand to ball. I can see how an official might miss that. Bummer.
 
#561      
HensonHall71
In some respects, I feel silly for getting my hopes up- we should have seen this coming, this team has been so up and down this year even when healthy and having our two best players being true freshman and our third best being his first year in college was going to be a hit or miss proposition in the tournament when the lights are bright

They played so well against Xavier, my biggest disappointment is that we simply didn’t play well- KJ devolved into careless turnovers, Will was unplayable down the stretch given his turnovers and defense, and the coaching staff seemed completely unprepared for Kentuckys pressure on ball or how to cover their shooters off of screens. It still boggles my mind they thought extreme drop coverage was the answer

Underwood has coached long enough now where it’s fair to say he’s simply not a good tournament coach- the quick turnaround games he’s awful in- he’s only beaten an overmatched 11 seed and horribly underperformed expectations in ever other game- double digit under performance. He’s got to go back to the drawing board and figure that out- but it has to start with a change in the assistant staff- the defensive scouts and game plans haven’t been good enough - not by a long shot. We need the top tier defensive assistant and money should not be an issue
 
#562      
gibb52
KY was beatable. Just simply gave them too many extra possessions with TO's. Our D wasn't great for sure, but not what got us beat, They scored 84 pts. If we don't give them 14 extra chances they don't score 84 pts. I realize it's hard to play an entire game without turning it over a few times but if we only had 7 TO's for example we almost certainly win the dang game. On to next year.
 
#563      
DewLou
I'd love to see the return of Morez Johnson, Tomi, Kylan, and Tre. Further, I'd like to see Ty Rodgers hang in there with the Illini too. I get that the NBA is drafting on potential for KJ and Will Riley. However, in my opinion both would really benefit staying another year, but the lure of the NBA is strong. I'm sure the NIL money would be there for all, as well as a nice insurance policy in the event of a catastrophic injury. These guys are young, talented, men but they will be playing with grown men in the NBA which is a business, not that collage ball is not, but at a lesser scale. A nice NIL payout, college environment, a first-class facility to play in, great exposure via television every game and lot of national coverage too. Advantages to both going and staying. Good luck to them all whatever they decide. It didn't end the way we or they wanted but that's the cards which were dealt.
 
#564      
RockfordIllini
Disappointed but not shocked at the result last night. This team was never destined for a long run in March because they were just too inconsistent. I was hoping for one more “good” game which which I thought beforehand would be enough to get them to the S16 and I’m even more convinced of afterwards. Didn’t even need an Oregon like effort. I think if we played like we did against Xavier we would have gotten by Kentucky. A shame to waste such a favorable draw.

But, some perspective. This really was a rebuilding year to the extent those even exist in CBB these days. Brand new team and one of the youngest rosters in all of CBB and we comfortably make the dance and win a game, and had a lot of fun moments throughout the year. Stinks that S16 was on the table and we came up short but i will take this as a rebuilding year.

Looking forward, I think we can be really good next year if we can keep Kylan, Rez, Tomi, Tre and one of Ben/Jake, and add the right portal pieces. Kylan figured it out after the Duke game and I think he will be all conference next year. Tomi showed what he can do in this tourney when he’s healthy. Morez is already a beast and will only get better. And I love what Tre brings.

But I’d like to see some philosophical changes next year. The defense is stale and not a fit for the type of guys we are bringing in. Felt like the drop coverage worked really well when we had Trent, Belo, even Ayo (who was long but quite skinny) who were hard to screen.

Now we are emphasizing positional size, which has a lot of advantages. But bigger bodies are just easier to screen such that our guards are constantly getting screened off and are at a major disadvantage, trailing their man in drop coverage. Pope saw we were planting our big around the FT line so just ran a ball screen for Brea 25 feet from the basket and then Brea had whatever shot he wanted. We either need to adjust our scheme or adjust our personnel.

And from a roster construction standpoint, I hope we go for guys who are better athletes and defenders. Feels like we’ve gone all in on offense the last couple of years. But the teams that make deep runs are usually top 25 in both. Not to pick on him because he’s surely been criticized enough, but Ben is emblematic of that. Let’s try and get good 2 ways players and adjust our offensive and defensive schemes to accentuate skill sets and mix up the looks some. Some switching, some hard hedging. Don’t let the offense get comfortable.

To me the weaknesses of this years team point to the need to make some staff changes. I’m not wild about nepotism but Tyler has done a pretty good job. We need the most help on defense. If Yaklich is available I’d snatch him up. He could be our Chris Lowery.

Good season overall. Lots of fun. My biggest disappointment is we could never seem to muster our A game against an A+ opponent. I would have liked to have seen what our Oregon effort looked like against Bama, Tennessee, or even Duke. Oh well.

Let’s make some good additions to the roster and the staff and take a leap next year.
 
#565      
Peteronthespot
We’re not an elite program because we don’t have an elite coach. Pretty close to elite talent this year. There are perennial sweet 16 teams and we ain’t one of them. A lot of us have a perception of Illinois as an elite program. We’re just not. Accept the reality and you’ll feel a lot better.
 
#566      
Ty’s jump shot
Our defense was atrocious all year minus Bos. Add in all the tournovers and it’s no surprise we rarely won if we didn’t light it up from 3.
 
#568      
cuillini
Indy Illini Fan said:
Changes need to be made … This team didn’t meet expectations … 7th in the Big Ten … Beating an 11 seed ??? Not good enough …

Hamer fired … Tyler demoted … Kwa demoted …

Kylan, Rez, Tomi and Tre back … Everyone else can go … And for crying out loud … BRING ME A VETERAN POINT GUARD WHO CAN HANDLE THE BALL !!!!!!

Portal opens tomorrow … Get to work …
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I'd like to see Ty Rogers back on the floor too.
 
#569      
FloridaMan
Chad Fleck said:
Ahh, I see now. I was just watching for the hand to ball. I can see how an official might miss that. Bummer.
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It can't be missed at this point in the season in this level of game. The officials, and this call, did not cost us the game; we squandered it with our play. But there have to be changes to the review system. Give coaches two challenges per game. Something, anything to correct these obvious errors that everyone sees but the officials have no ability to change, and the announcers blatantly ignore due to the obvious implications of pointing them out. There has to be more accountability (perhaps assistance is a better word?) for the people put on the floor to manage these games.

Edit: and I suspect there will be these changes, once again, prompted in part by calls that negatively impacted our level of success. Frustrating for fans who have seen these things happen on multiple occasions to our programs.
 
#570      
phats22
(warning, catharsis following....)

for me, this was a weird season. there were many games I missed live and didnt watch the replay of because i knew what i would see- turnovers, iso offense and variable effort. i couldn't stomach the watch. ive never done that before. i would watch losses to see the team and how they were playing/growing- this year, that seemed like a foregone conclusion

i completely acknowledge the many 'acts of God' that hampered the teams opportunity to gel but it was still discouraging to see the same things last night that we did months ago. want to see more and consistent progress, Izzo style (and yes, i just threw up in my mouth a little bit)

the talent was undeniable and this group of new players actually performed well historically - another 20 win season, another tourney berth. but man, i want more.

the assistant coach thing is real, didnt have the same concerns when gentry was here (and salivate thinking of what our offense would look like with the talent we are now getting if he was still here).

BU has taken us out of the great depression and set us back on course. he is successful, can recruit and can lead but he has to get out of his own way- bring in help where needed, formulate contingencies so that adjustments are not difficult - i mean, seriously, how many games have we lost because of drop coverage? how difficult is it to change tack? its not like this is a novel basketball problem to solve.

and i do get the stubbornness for the sake of being stubborn vibe often which is infuriating. real leaders own it and course correct, you dont have to be (and shouldn't be) the smartest person in the room.

lastly, I hope he apologizes to Derek Piper, that was B league and petty

thank you loyalty, i feel better now. it was a hard loss but


dystentary00-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif
 
#573      
WyattEarp
Second place is 1st loser said:
Vibe is one thing, reality is another. This team pretty much met expectations from the prognosticators before the season started. We weren't ranked, we were picked to finish in the middle to top half of the conference and we did.

Hopefully, we never have to go through the hockey line change of a roster ever again. Replacing 10 faces, with 10 totally new faces from all over the globe and main rotational pieces being freshmen was difficult enough. Once things seemed to be coming together, all of the craziness started with illnesses, news about an injury to KJ being broken 10 minutes before a game starts, news about Morez breaking his wrist on a game day.....it was nothing that I've ever seen before. What can you possibly do about that stuff other than just ride it out?

We actually have a returning core next year, which feels like a luxury. I don't ever want us to have to go with a mass turnover like that again. The likliehood of success there is minimal. We're not Duke and Cooper Flagg didn't come walking through the door.
The biggest takeaway from this year, is the importance of roster construction, CONTINUITY and being experienced and physically ready to compete at the level we all covet.

Teams like Kansas and UNC.....those were abject failures of seasons because those were final four or bust expectations.

We were kind of sitting there with Rutgers. They have two NBA, READY picks heading into game 1. No tournament of any kind is a failure.

This has been a tournament of chalks. There were no really thrilling upsets. There were a ton of blowouts. The teams left, for the most part(especially from the Big Ten angle), are teams with a solid core of a cast of characters. That wasn't us and I think that the season played out how most thought it would.

Meeting expectations is one thing, but setting them is another. To me, navigating the portal, getting that ridiculous extra COVID year out of the way, the NCAA trying to shorten the portal windows....just have to roll with this until the dust settles. We tried doing things differently, which I can appreciate, but obviously, we won't do that again because outside of Duke and bringing in a generational talent.....it's not going to work.
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We won 20-plus again…but we were middle to lower in the pack of the Bigten. We made the tourney. We had some nice victories AND a slew of disappointing losses. I think most reasonable people would say that is a C-grade, so-so, average/somewhat decent…yet ultimately disappointing season…I think that’s pretty straight forward.

But this whole, citing the failure of Rutgers as evidence of success is weak sauce. If Pikiell has another season like this one he’ll be gone. (Yes, I think
quite possibly …even at Rutgers.) Right now some of them are somewhere having conversations about how they $quandered primo talent…and the nutzos are calling for Pikiell’s head on a pike…because they’re nutzos.

But setting Rutgers as the bar is not where we wanna be at. That sucks. I could just as easily extrapolate some other random program; that is comparable in some way…and use it to justify our failures this season. ex. BYU has foreign dudes just like us….how they doin? Michigan was picked to finish below us in pre-season polls….and how bout that first year Michigan coach that people left for dead-after we throttled em? How they doin? That kind of crap gets annoying pretty quick IMO.

www.cbssports.com

Big Ten basketball preseason media poll 2024-25: Purdue, Michigan State overrated; Michigan underrated

Purdue is the favorite to win the Big Ten this season
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
 
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#575      
NarrowJ
sacraig said:
So the talking heads are idiots who are never right and always have it out for Illinois... Unless they're needed to help justify a season that didn't meet expectations.

I don't care what the external expectations are. Internal to the university and fan base, we expect more. And we had the talent level to achieve more and this team still didn't put it together. I don't think treating this season as disappointing is unfair.
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I wouldn't necessarily invalidate his argument based on what fans tend to say about what we're referring to as 'talking heads', but rather, used his own argument against him. I seem to recall A TON of analysts pegging us as a Final Four team about 1/3 of the way through the season.

Over time, I feel the injuries and sickness will be forgotten (its already been washed away entirely by many on here) and we'll always remember this season much in the same way as we did the 22-23 team. Which, might not be completely unfair, as this team still continued to show massive volatility up to the very end here after the illness/injury bug had long subsided.
 
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