I’m very grateful to Underwood for making Illinois a watchable, fun program again who consistently does respectably in the Big 10 and takes us to the tournament. Trudging through the Weber/Groce era makes me appreciate him even more. Also, he seems very passionate and kids seem to like him. Offense will come and go - defense is where you create consistency and an ongoing identity. Defense is where Illinois needs to change - we show effort and enthusiasm but in the end very ineffective in big games. It all begins with trying to fight through screens in the backcourt which leaves our guard trailing without help and leaving a preeminent opposing guard the chance to literally pick us apart with easy baskets and assists. It’s the same type of breakdown every time, year after year and nothing ever changes. I must be missing something- otherwise, I just don’t get his defensive strategy bc it seems to kill the team against good competition.
Kentucky 84, Illinois 75 Postgame
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I think this proves a point I made yesterday…Brad (and I guess Tyler) is/are really good at roster construction and coming up with a scheme based on what he has over the summer.
And to be fair, if we could’ve shot the ball this year, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
The point is, when your usual scheme doesn’t work - for a number of potential reasons, you need some good set plays or different motions. And when it was clear we are being pressured beyond our control and/or they are being physical…we just keep trying the same thing over and over and failing.
Even during the Xavier game, they had 4/5 times where they got GREAT looks from 3 because of set plays. How often did we see that this year? Our success was based on dribble drive and offensive rebounding. When you can’t do that, you need some set plays.
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Well we had 2 other AAs in the 2 years preceding him in Kofi and Ayo. Its not a one way street. The coaches need the players and the players need coaching.
Ayo, Kofi and TJ aren't walking through the door, but new guys will and some of them will be really, really good.
It's 100% absurd to say a coach who made the E8 last year won't ever make a S16 again. Hell, we were one game away from this the very season directly after the guy (TJ) who you claim is "required" for Brad to get there. It is dumb and you guys know it.
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OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Just read this over my coffee this morning. I think this says a lot about how a lot of this 1) isn't overly complicated and 2) should be recognized and implemented by those who have a lot more knowledge and understanding.
I did watch about 12 minutes or so of the Oregon-Arizona game last night, and I specifically was watching for what the corner offensive players were doing. Arizona had a lot of "parking", even sometimes with two players, while Oregon did it less often. So I do think there is some validity to what @NarrowJ has mentioned. Perhaps coaches are using that as "rest defense" for some of their players. I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, so everything is just my humble, yet reasonably passionate, opinion.
Goillinikobd
- Southeastern US
First reading had me thinking that we had recruited a 2 star freshman as our point guard, it helps if you say freshmen. 
It wasn't my claim. I was just pointing out that he failed to make runs in the tournament with other all Americans that were very very good(though not as good as 5th year TJ imo).
Loyola was a very good team but Brad had two all Americans in Ayo and Kofi and a very good roster but Loyola dominated that game from the tip and Brad was thoroughly out coached by Moser.
That same Loyola team then lost to an incredibly mediocre Oregon state team the next round so it was not like Loyola was a juggernaut.
I like Brad and I don't think he's easily replaceable and it would take a very good coach to improve on him but he does have some flaws and if he doesn't make the sweet 16 next year his seat should start heating up imo.
Dusty May has Michigan in the sweet 16 in year 1 and what he did in the comeback against A&M was some of the most impressive coaching I've seen this year.
Ok ok, I got you. Sorry, I thought you were supporting his POV.
It's very silly to say we will never get to S16 again without TJ, considering we were 9 points away from it the very next year after he graduated.
Yep…agreed…just some fans/enthusiasts that occasionally like to consider what’s going on under the hood. Nothing wrong with that. We’re staying in our lane, I think.Just read this over my coffee this morning. I think this says a lot about how a lot of this 1) isn't overly complicated and 2) should be recognized and implemented by those who have a lot more knowledge and understanding.
I did watch about 12 minutes or so of the Oregon-Arizona game last night, and I specifically was watching for what the corner offensive players were doing. Arizona had a lot of "parking", even sometimes with two players, while Oregon did it less often. So I do think there is some validity to what @NarrowJ has mentioned. Perhaps coaches are using that as "rest defense" for some of their players. I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, so everything is just my humble, yet reasonably passionate, opinion.
But I do like this kind of stuff and usually have to remind myself not to get too into the weeds with it…(I dont profess to know everything either.)
I think NarrowJ is correct that the corner is VERY often utilized in most modern schemes…I mean sure…stretch the floor…gravity…create space etc. That’s not a particularly new or revolutionary concept either. That’s kind of a traditional thing. I mean why wouldn’t you generally wanna utilize every bit of the available floor space, anyway? If you don’t use it you lose it…and you’re limiting yourself. But the downside to using the corner to run a bunch of actions MIGHT be trappping defenses, or getting the ball buried down there with pressure defense …depending on the situation. Also, by pulling everyone up high and away from the baseline…in theory you open up that area of the court for: cuts, back doors and back screens…think: the starting formation of Underwood’s Spread, Princeton (some sets), UCLA offense…with 2 guards at the slots…a HP and two wings…another example would be a 1-4 high…you still sometimes see it…I bring up these examples because they don’t “park” someone in the baseline…yes they tend to be more old timey continuity offenses…but this is basketball and what is old is new. A lot of what UConn does is old timey as hell; actually.
A Flex is undoubtedly a derivative of a shuffle offense and reverse action offense…and it doesn’t get more old timey than that… Auburn’s version doesn’t have a true horizontal flex cut…it’s basically a back screen on the wing…using basic flex mechanics. (Its almost closer to Pinholster’s Wheel than it is a traditional Flex…JMO) But as you alluded to…The point is, like I think you said…it doesn’t incorporate a corner with the bread and butter actions.
Anyways 3 tangents ago I meant to keep it about ball screen oriented offense(s) There’s some variation there. You might have a “loaded corner” or an “empty corner”…There are benefits and drawbacks to both.
But where everybody else aligns depends on where the ball screen is to occur…high middle or side…or whatever…generally speaking.
I guess my final summation is: there’s a lot of ways to skin cat.
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There is almost no help defense. Most of the top teams use help defense a lot and then the helpers scramble like crazy to get back to their resposiblity and it works. You do have to have guys who can move and hustle and are willing to work. It may be philosophy of the defense but it may be that they are not taught properly.
Ok and where would you start with the better?
Yeah it's a bit concerning that defense is a fairly consistent weakness. KenPom Adjusted Defense rank by year
2018: 129
2019: 108
2020: 35
2021: 7
2022: 29
2023: 26
2024: 80
2025: 40
AVG = 56.75
AVG without first two years = 36.167
I don't think it's unrealistic to say Illinois should be able to put together a consistent top 15-25 level of defense, and so far they've managed to do that one time.
Agreed. They play defense ok/good against weaker teams, but when the opposing team has talent, athleticism and great guards - we tend to lose. The worst part is that when he uses that fighting through screens/chasing defense, the baskets the opposing team gets are bunnies/high percentage. I’m sure opposing coaches with good teams lick their chops when they see his strategy being utilized. And it never seems to change.
Our emphasis apparently changed to focusing on offense. I get it, it's easier to recruit if you're trying to score 100 points a game. Who doesn't like to score. The problem is we lost our defensive toughness in the process. Brad and the rest of the staff need to be aware that it takes both to win championships. It has become apparent over the last few years that you need to be around the top 20 in both offense and defense to win it all. One or the other isn't going to get the job done.
This year's team was built for offense. The plan for defense was in reaction to that.
The result was a very good offensive team, but a young, inexperienced, and hence inconsistent one. Completely predicatable.
The defensive plan was a fingers-in-the-dike Dutch boy "plan" that was entirely inadequate. But it was clearly based on the fact that the roster brought in was all O and no D.
Well, after virtually every loss this past year your genius (and top 10 paid) coach said, "I need to do better."
Maybe we start there.
Maybe we start there.
Yeah but remember what happened to Painter two years ago and MSU had been really mediocre until this year. I think Brad has a problem with solutions but we will see if he finds them.
Yep. We played like garbage and only lost by 9 points. That's why fans were so disappointed.
They haven't had any rim protection since Kofi left but they are still trying to play similarly.
I will say that I think the 2024 defense was more capable of guarding than the metrics showed and they proved it towards the end of the year.
Underwood is not an elite bench coach. Never will be as he’s pretty old now. So unless he steps aside he will consistently get outcoached this time of year when coaching matters most and literally wins most games. You can overcome this with ridiculous talent like TSJ last year (still the U conn gameexposed Brad), but otherwise just get used to the final 32 being our realistic ceiling. In the words of Dennis Green all of these teams that kick our butt are who we all thought they were. No surprises.
According to Derek Piper, Illinois spent the 2nd most in the Big 10 on the roster. Finished 7th. That’s not a good return. 1-9 vs the top 15.
We can’t judge Underwood based on whatever the level was before he got to Illinois. He should be judged on the amount of money being spent right now!
There's a big difference on spending on a completely new roster mostly of younger players vs retaining one full of juniors/seniors/5th years mixed in with younger roster. Can't just say we spent the most money (in this case 2nd most)without including that we completely flipped our roster for a much younger team.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Who spent the most and how did they do?
Indiana. And they fired their coach as a result.
Imagine where we'll be next year with the second most NIL and a little bit of continuity and experience.
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