Illini Basketball 2024-2025 Team Grade

[21ChampaignSt]

I do not think Coach Underwood thinks, in private, that this was a 'B' season for his program. If so, what would he grade a team that made it two games deeper into the NCAA Tournament, on an Elite 8 trip? And then to the Final Four and further? Good grief! Suppose this year's team had won (not even tied for) a BIG regular season Championship? A B1G Tournament Championship season? Give the man some credit -- he hopes for vastly more than this.

So fire Brad? Nope. I am satisfied (with no evidence) that he feels exactly as do I: frustrated, unsatisfied, boiling for more. I think that is exactly what he thinks.

I do not believe for a moment that Coach Underwood would give this OK season a "B."

Go Illini, and let's ROLL next year. Today it looks like a foundation is in place for next year.

I (and I assume most) aren't looking at it like that. If last year's squad would've had the same year that this team did, no one would've given it a B or probably even a C for that matter. You grade relative to expectations. They were pretty much right in range with what most reasonable people expected from this group especially given all the adversity they went through.

They did fine. A pretty average season by our standards. But graded out slightly better than that, IMO, given their circumstances.

Expectations will be higher next year. Hopefully the postmortem grades will be, too.

 

[One Man Fast Break]

I do not think Coach Underwood thinks, in private, that this was a 'B' season for his program.

At the same time, Underwood upsells his results more so than just about any other Coach I've seen. How many times have we heard "most/2nd most wins in Big Ten since x date" which isn't a truly meaningful measure and more so a piece of trivia.

How things are presented as far as "our goal is a National Championship! Anything short of that isn't good!" is likely not how he feels in the depths of his soul and I also highly doubt he's walking into Josh Whitman's office and saying "this season was a failure, I did a bad job" particularly when negotiating contracts... Just like Chris Collins might say "you know, technically 16-15 is a winning season"

 

[OrangeKrush1981]

I (and I assume most) aren't looking at it like that. If last year's squad would've had the same year that this team did, no one would've given it a B or probably even a C for that matter. You grade relative to expectations. They were pretty much right in range with what most reasonable people expected from this group especially given all the adversity they went through.

That's fine, nothing wrong with that opinion. But our head coach is looking at things the way I outline. Which is the way to win.

That should be pretty clear.

 

[grue2]

Expectations:

For a B:
- Double bye in the BTT and at least one BTT win. With 18 teams, I may need to include 5th as "acceptable".
- Win the first round of the Dance.

Anything less is at best a C.
Failing to dance is an F.

Winning the BTT and 1 win in the dance is an B+/A-.
Getting to the Sweet 16 is an A.
Getting to the Elite 8 is an A+

 

[FreshlySqueezed]

I love threads like these. It thins the herd, so to speak.

 

[One Man Fast Break]

Expectations:

For a B:
- Double bye in the BTT and at least one BTT win. With 18 teams, I may need to include 5th as "acceptable".
- Win the first round of the Dance.

Anything less is at best a C.
Failing to dance is an F.

Winning the BTT and 1 win in the dance is an B+/A-.
Getting to the Sweet 16 is an A.
Getting to the Elite 8 is an A+

Double Bye is going to be very tough moving forward. 22/32 RO32 teams were in one of three conferences, and our conference is the largest amongst those.

 

[FreshlySqueezed]

HA! You're speaking for the coach now, huh? Get off your high horse bro.

Anyone who actually gives a crap about data and analytics knew it was likely we were in for a bumpy season. Evan Miyakawa presented a very compelling case backed by solid data that a team as inexperienced as ours tends to underperform relative to more cohesive and experienced teams.

Since you get to speak for Brad, I'll take a shot at it too... in private, the entire season, Brad knew the limitations of this team and getting them to a 6 seed and an NCAA tournament win, given the injuries and illnesses, was a flippin' success in many ways.

 

[OrangeKrush1981]

Our Head Coach is repeatedly on record as saying, as recently as this week, that championships are the goal. "Tough" is just another step to overcome, on the way to championships. I'm 100% in board with our Coach. Win.

 

[grue2]

Double Bye is going to be very tough moving forward. 22/32 RO32 teams were in one of three conferences, and our conference is the largest amongst those.

Expecting a flagship basketball school to finish in the top 25% of their conference (top 4-5 of 18) seems reasonable to me. It is roughly the same as saying "finish ranked in the polls".** I've never been accused of being an easy grader.

** There are 5 major BB conferences, so I expect 4-5 schools from each conference to be ranked along with 2-3 mid-majors.

 

[One Man Fast Break]

Expecting a flagship basketball school to finish in the top 25% of their conference (top 4-5 of 18) seems reasonable to me. It is roughly the same as saying "finish ranked in the polls".** I've never been accused of being an easy grader.

** There are 5 major BB conferences, so I expect 4-5 schools from each conference to be ranked along with 2-3 mid-majors.

These days, it's more like a Power 3 (B1G, Big XII, SEC), Middle 2 (ACC and Big East) then a tier of a couple west coast dollar store versions of the Pac-12 (MW and WCC) and a bunch of true mid-major conferences that might get a multi-bid every once in a while (AAC, A10, Conference USA, MVC) and then automatic 1-bid conferences (everyone else). Nothing wrong with high standards of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if 8 RO32/4 Sweet 16 teams from the Big Ten becomes more like the norm going forward. Top 4 in Big Ten will likely mean a great season. Three years ago Illinois was the co-Conference champion and got a 4 seed, this season they were 7th and only two seed spots lower, with the same NCAA tournament exit round and a better KP rating.

 

[grue2]

If you are going to introduce a new tier, then sure, there are three levels at the moment, though the top of the ACC and BE rival that in the Big3. They will put ~5 teams each into the tournament each year vs. 8-10 for each of the "Power 3".

If you say the ACC and BE are not power conferences for BB despite their top end, is the B1G a power conference in football? Looking at a merged rating list of the B1G and SEC for last year, 9 of the bottom 10 teams are B1G.

 

[The Galloping Ghost]

I voted a C, but I would have gone C+ if we had pluses. The highs were incredibly high, but there were a lot of lows and those lows were as low as you can get, including a record for biggest loss on national television. Even still, I'm thankful a C+ season under Brad is comfortably making the tourney and getting out of the round of 64. Having lived through the 2010s, I'm not taking that for granted. As of right now, though, we're dealing with incomplete information. The score could still move up or down.

If we bring back the core it's believed we might bring back, the growing pains we went through this season might just have been worth it. Bos could become the leader and steady hand we need. Tomi should be the best passing center in college basketball. Tre could put it all together and become the star wing his skill set indicates he could be. And Morez could be the monster glue guy wreaking havoc on the inside. There's just so much to like there. Plus, and most importantly, an understanding of our culture, what's expected, and how to fight so we don't get blown out again.

Add to that, if we get two guys drafted in the first round, especially if one of them goes in the lottery, again, those lows become a little bit more palatable. We haven't heard our name enough on draft day and the potential impact that might have on future seasons could be pretty darn high. We know OA, Geoff, and Brad can recruit with the best of them. Every little bit more ammo they have only helps that.

One season doesn't happen in a vacuum, even in this world of the transfer portal and NIL. While the frustrations were high this season, the possibility it was a jumping-off point is tantalizing. We'll see.

 

[Seppuku]

I voted a “D” but I was this close to giving an “F”…

The talent on this team is F4 level; I told many that this might be the best talent we’ve ever had on a single team, and definitely the most complete team (unlike many other great teams, this one had holes: we, at least on paper, had legit PG, shooters, slashers, physical big, athletic/shooting big, etc.). So, 2nd round exit, 7th place finish, and many embarrassing losses are just too many strikes.

Underwood is just not a great coach, it’s a proven fact at this point. We are not making F4 with him, let alone win an NC

 

[DewLou]

Moments of brilliance, moments of failure, grade B. I believe the necessary core group will return for 2025-26 and improvements will be visible. This was a talented group playing together for the first time. Bringing back a strong core will help assimilate new additions which will make the team more successful. The NIL money is there, go get the pieces needed to round out the team.

 

[pruman91]

View attachment 40881

LOL

 

[PepeSilvia]

Man, so many B's. Looking over the last 5 years:

20-21: 2 double digit losses at neutral sites - 1 to the eventual NC
21-22: 5 double digit losses at road / neutral sites
22-23: 7 double digit losses - 2 at home (!)
23-24: 1 double digit loss at neutral site to the eventual NC
24-25: 7 double digit losses - 3 at home (!), 1 neutral loss setting a program record for margin. Some of those losses could still be to an eventual NC

This team is closer (and arguably worse than) the much derided 22-23 team than any other recent year. That's a D for me.

It is basically the 22-23 season but they recovered a bit towards the end and didn't start out as well.

The 22-23 team beat two top 10 teams in non con in with #2 Texas and #8 UCLA. If they had won a game in the tourney it would have been eerily similar.

 

[PepeSilvia]

Our AD has high standards and that's great! High standards are what you should have. Not being content to be the 20th best team, but at the same time, is Whitman rushing to fire the HC because he has one Sweet Sixteen in eight years (or 7 that had a postseason) and we want more? It's a balancing act. Look at Indiana, who certainly at least considers themselves a better program than ours. They've churned through coaches and have one RO64 win in the last 9 years (or 8 postseasons) and 6 missed tournaments. Illinois could very easily "regress" to that, just as they were at before 2020.

On the other hand, Purdue has I believe 5 or 6 sweet 16s in the last decade and id argue Illinois is similar program if not better historically and probably has more resources.

 

[wpr]

Hard to grade this year honestly. We more or less met preseason expectations (think we either finished squarely on the nose of what KenPom predicted preseason both total W/L and conference or within one game) and played to our seed (Hard to complain about getting beaten by a lower seed).

But we certainly felt like we had the talent to do more. We did have one of the more favorsble draws I can remember against a beat up UK team. If we absolve underwood for 21 and 22 due to tough draws, think this year is a mark against him. And if we don’t have all the injuries/illnesses do we win a few more conference games and get into that 4-5 line and make a S16? Maybe.

But the S16 this year is overwhelmingly composed of old teams and we were one of the youngest/least experienced in P5. Underwood has preached get old/stay old and yet we went super young. Maybe Underwood deserves criticism for that approach. If we are going to lose our one n dones after this year and roster retention in this era is a crapshoot anyways, why not put together the oldest team you can? For all the talk of Kentucky’s vulnerabilities (and I do think we beat them if we played a little better) they went into the portal and got super old. Oweh, Brea, Williams, Jaxon Robinson, and I bet Butler were all old and pretty high priced portal guys. Even though UK might not have had the talent they normally do, I wouldn’t be surprised if their roster cost 2x what ours did.

So maybe going young may have been the best way to accumulate the most talent. If now everyone is valuing experienced portal guys (which were very good to us the past 2 years), maybe they market is maxed out such there was more value in the one n done and Euro markets? And maybe Undereood deserves credit for putting together such a talented team. Imagine how livid we would all be right now had we paid a kings ransom for AJ Storr.

So overall I think I’m going B. In a rebuilding year we met our preseason expectation, were in the tournament comfortably and were able to accumulate a lot of talent. Ultimately I think injuries, illnesses and youth cost us a top 4 seed line and capped how far we could go in the tourney. But I also think there were some coaching mishaps, in particular the insistence on shooting 3s and playing Ben 30+ minutes a game when it was clear we weren’t a good shooting team, and a flawed defensive scheme and a failure to make defensive adjustments when needed.

I think B is fair. Without injuries/illnesses I’d probably give us a C but we still met expectations despite how beat up we were.

Like him or loath him, years ago Dickie V pontificated the teams that make a deep run in The Tourney are teams that have an upper class backcourt. Over the years I have watched and darned if Dickie wasn't right.
In the decades since he said that things have certainly changed. Many of the best players are One and Done moving on the the NBA. Others are moving on to better NIL deals. The rise of the Combo Guard is more common today than it was back then. Still the teams that have more experience at guard tend to do better when the pressure is on.
What would Illinois' record have been with 1/3 fewer turnovers and a few more assists?

 

[Mr. Roberts]

Just for comparison, Purdue has made the Sweet 16 six times in the last eight years. Consequently, I struggled to even give them a C. Living in Indiana, being surrounded by Purdue grads, including both of my kids, I find constantly being in Purdue's shadow to be wholly unsatisfactory.

 

[gary?]

that over half the users gave this year a B is wild. i guess you're all making the case that this is a good job with expectations like that.

 

[Grandpa]

I changed my vote from a B to a C. You should be shooting for an A. If this season was a B that means that you don't have to improve a lot to get an A. I want us to improve a LOT. A little improvement isn't enough.

 

[Greensboro]

fun conversations - I went B, but totally understand rating a C.

For me, we went totally in on last year with high number of senior transfers & this was destined to be a bit of a rebuilding year & I grade it as such.
We did an excellent job recovering with transfers and bringing in talent, but I don't think that gets you where we were last year...we were too young, not enough experience returning, & not enough time together
The 2 potential NBA 1st rounders is being over-rated; neither is first round based on actual performance, it is all potential based. Give me an actual all American candidate like Terrance every time.
Part of this year's grade needs to be based on returning players this year & a 2 year strategy to build for 25-26 as well...looks like Boswell, White, Morez, & Ivisic are destined to return...baseline expectation for next year needs to be higher.

And let's add some athleticism & defense next year please

 

[Battle89]

These days, it's more like a Power 3 (B1G, Big XII, SEC), Middle 2 (ACC and Big East) then a tier of a couple west coast dollar store versions of the Pac-12 (MW and WCC) and a bunch of true mid-major conferences that might get a multi-bid every once in a while (AAC, A10, Conference USA, MVC) and then automatic 1-bid conferences (everyone else). Nothing wrong with high standards of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if 8 RO32/4 Sweet 16 teams from the Big Ten becomes more like the norm going forward. Top 4 in Big Ten will likely mean a great season. Three years ago Illinois was the co-Conference champion and got a 4 seed, this season they were 7th and only two seed spots lower, with the same NCAA tournament exit round and a better KP rating.

 

[Illini 993]

Expectations:

For a B:
- Double bye in the BTT and at least one BTT win. With 18 teams, I may need to include 5th as "acceptable".
- Win the first round of the Dance.

Anything less is at best a C.
Failing to dance is an F.

Winning the BTT and 1 win in the dance is an B+/A-.
Getting to the Sweet 16 is an A.
Getting to the Elite 8 is an A+

I mostly agree with this except for the top grades. A+ is the grade for the best season possible, so I would reserve it for at least a FF appearance, or even higher. I am admittedly a hard grader, because I think Illinois has an extremely high ceiling if everything falls right. I voted a C, but I really hope that our average season going forward would be better than 7th in the B1G, one win in the BTT, and one win in the NCAA tournament.

 

[Perry Range's Van]

So evaluating in 5 areas (assuming that talent recruitment is an offseason activity):
1Talent development - This one is a D. We had lots of talent but I can't say we have anyone that ended they year above preseason/early expectations (No, Will playing up to his ability at the end of the year doesn't count)
2 Talent alignment (did we play the right guys at the right time to maximize Ws?) - This one is a C (Could have been a D based on BH alone)
3 Talent utilization (Did we run a schemes that aligned to player skillsets to maximize Ws?) - This one is also a D
4 Intangibles - Lots of headwind in the form of illness or injury. I'd say we get a B for overcoming those
5 Culture - This is a C. Our every day guys were occasionally guys.

So a C, even if a low C.