Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#101      
hoopsfan47
Not arguing with anyone but my favorite Illini coach was Lou Henson. If you played for Lou and you did not play your tail off on defense, you sat and watched. Pretty good motivation.

No team hits shots for an entire game at their avg. clip (see Duke against Houston) but every team on every night is more capable of playing 40 min. of high level defense...if they have the depth. I have never known of a player who likes to play against a team that plays high level defense and makes every shot difficult.

But it is all a moot point as every play counts on both ends. It is quite likely that every coach prefers guys who are talented and determined to do both....but there are not enough of those types so you have to be able to do something well.
 
#102      
Mobi
Illini2010-11 said:
I knew the defense was bad, but did not remember how bad it was down the stretch from a metric standpoint (I guess I just remember the late game defensive stops when needed and Coleman/Dainja diving for loose balls). In the tourney, I thought the Illini actually played pretty good defense relatively speaking (it helped that Iowa State put up a clunker). However, you are absolutely correct in the offense carrying the team (and that is not a bad thing).

But the bolded is my fear moving forward. In one game elimination formats, if the offense is off (or stagnates against an elite defensive team), I do not have confidence in the defense being able to get the job done to keep us in the game. We obviously do not need a top 10 defense, but we still need something better than what we saw the last two seasons.
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That's exactly why I argued for better defense. Defense and offense are definitely not mutually exclusive. When Underwood puts together another offense team like the 2023-24, I want a better defense to have a shot at the championship.
 
#103      
Mobi
the juiceman cometh said:
That's just kind of the deal with single-elimination tournaments though. Not just for bad defenses. Good defenses have off nights too.

In 2022-23, UCLA, haver of the #2 defense in the country, had their run ended in the S16 by Gonzaga, haver of the #73 defense in the country. They gave up 79 points, a total they had not given up since November 20. Their elite defense stagnated. The next year Auburn, a 2-seed and #9 defense in the country, gave up 79 points (magic number!) to Miami (#99 defense) and crashed out in the second round. Another elite defense stagnating at the wrong time. What's interesting in both those scenarios is the team the elite defense lost to was an elite offense, and terrible defense.
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I am not looking for an elite defense team. That's not why we hired Underwood. I want an elite offense team with top 20 defense or so. Top 30 can do, I guess.
 
#104      
ptgrd23
Eyeball tests says defense matters

KY caused 14 turnovers to Illini 5 scoring 26 points off Illini turnovers vs our 8 points. This was 18 point differential. We lost by 9 points.
 
#105      
ptgrd23
Hoping KJ is lottery pick and Will goes top 18. That will do wonders for our recruiting. Come to Illinois and get drafted 1st round.

I am OK with having one and dones. Just can't build team around them. Last year having 10 new players with 4 starters first time college players - KJ, Tomas, Morez, Will as too young. I like this year mix - 1st time college - Mirkovic, Brandon and Keaton. So possibly only Mirkovic as starter (could be Ty or big Z instead)
 
#106      
JD76
metrics = figures lie and liars figure. Our defense last year did not pass the eye test. Inbounds plays were also terrible. We need an upgrade on the staff.
 
#108      
OrangeKrush1981
I like the arguments of those who think defense and rebounding win tournaments because, they have observed, defense and rebounding are more consistent than is offense.
 
#109      
Thaillini22
NarrowJ said:
You only went back one season though

2024 F4 had the 38th and 111th ranked defense
2023 F4 had the 34th and 99th ranked defense
2022 F4 had the 35th and 49th ranked defense
2021 F4 had the 46th ranked defense

You "don't see it happening" but yet it happens pretty much every single year (except last year, the single season you cherry picked to use as reference)?

I think there will be a cap on our defensive metrics as long as we continue play a high-pace NBA type of offense
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It is entirely possible that we have better, more assignment-sound, more dawgish defenders, on average, this season over last season as well.
 
#110      
mhuml32
Illini2010-11 said:
If you think the recipe for the Illini to make the F4 is to keep the defense around where it is at, and to improve the offense more, then fine. I believe the recipe to success for us is to improve more on the defensive end. Of course there are going to be teams with worse defenses making the final 4, but those are not necessarily sustainable models (they are generally one off teams making fluke extended runs). I believe we need to try to get closer to a top 10 offense and top 25 or 30 defense to have higher likelihood of success. Simply maintaining at top 40 defense is not the recipe. I think that is why there is generally angst about a particular coach from a lot on this board.
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But by simplifying the problem to focus only on defensive metrics, Illinois' defense was much better compared to last year. So what went wrong? Plus, why are we blaming Hamer?

There are stars that can be great on both sides of the ball, but they are very hard to acquire. I think your examination of F4 teams and their offensive/defensive metrics is a good one, so are we more likely to see offensive or defensive excellence in the F4? Even using your example of 2025 would prove that offensive and defense were roughly equally important, but looking at the totality of F4 teams over the past 10 years would show that being offensively elite gives you a better chance than defensive excellence.
 
#111      
splitter
Most players (not just Illini) are not fundamentally sound on defense. Think Brad went away from his original style to cut down on the fouling. I am always screaming at the TV ... move your feet - keep your feet. Learned this from a JuCo coach friend of my dad. He called his players ball watchers. When the ball goes up your should know where it's going, get there first and keep others away.
Plenty of coaches to blame, not just Hamer. At least he is not promoting a zone.
Don't hate Hamer just would like to see him back to the job he had before becoming an AC.
 
#115      
Guest
Illwinsagain said:
As long as we score at least 4 points more than our opponent, every game, I am not worried. (note: 4 points, to protect my heart during their half court launch at the buzzer).
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What if the shooter sinks the 3 and is fouled?
 
#119      
illini55
robertgoulet said:
An even truer recipe for a FF run is the luck of the draw on your side of the bracket.
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The truest measure of a FF run is to put together a team like 2023 Connecticut, at which point it simply doesn't matter who you play, or when.
 
#120      
RabidDawgClassic
illini55 said:
The truest measure of a FF run is to put together a team like 2023 Connecticut, at which point it simply doesn't matter who you play, or when.
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True dat!

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#123      
hoopsfan47
pruman91 said:
Bonham...........
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Pru....that brings to mind an old name of a great player...Ron Bonham. Specifically, as an All-American at Cincinnati, their entire offense was to get him the ball by coming off a baseline screen and then another screen and curl at the left hash for 12-15 ft. jumper that he would bury at around a 60-70 rate if open. Was on two NBA title teams for the Celtics. Averaged 19.6 for his career for the Bearcats and 24.4 as a senior when he was a consensus All-America First Team. His 1962 team, led by Chicagoan George Wilson, won the MVC title and NCAA Championship over favored Ohio State and Jerry Lucas.
 
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