Da'Monte Williams news

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#3      
Grandpa
FAFO. I hope that doesn't give anyone PTSD or other problems. Some guys just want shot.
 
#5      
wpr
That's too bad. Something like this could haunt him for the rest of his life. I hope not.
 
#8      
IndyIllini2
The fact that this "investigation" takes more than 5 minutes is ridiculous. Police officers are there to protect the community. Every news report automatically goes to cops being the bad guys and it is a load of crap. Good on them for doing what was necessary to protect themselves and everyone around them.
 
#9      
sacraig
IndyIllini2 said:
The fact that this "investigation" takes more than 5 minutes is ridiculous. Police officers are there to protect the community. Every news report automatically goes to cops being the bad guys and it is a load of crap. Good on them for doing what was necessary to protect themselves and everyone around them.
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These investigations are also there to protect the community and the officers. Just like any military engagement involves some kind of after action report, and police incident deserves an investigation of the incident, what went right, what went wrong, and how processes, policies, and training can be improved. It also likely involves psychological support for said officers. Taking a life is not trivial.

Nothing in that media report casts blame on these officers. Investigation does not always mean criminal investigation.
 
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#10      
skyIdub
The subject could have been having a mental episode.
The subject could have been threatening to attack with the bat, without actually attacking.
The subject could have been actively attacking someone else.
The subject could have been actively attacking the police.
The subject could have been simply holding the bat and the police preemptively attempted to restrain him, causing him to react.
The subject could have been armed with something other than the bat, but not wielding that weapon.
The subject could have been trying to retreat from the officers.
The subject could have gained the upper hand in a struggle with the police and they feared he would gain access to their gun.
The subject could have been actively trying to grab the officers gun during a struggle.
The officer could have grabbed his gun unintentionally while meaning to grab his taser in the heat of a struggle.

Etc...etc...etc...

If you are hair triggered to simply assume the officers acted accordingly when using deadly force, perhaps you should play out some of these and other scenarios while using someone you love as the subject.

If you are hair triggered to simply assume the officers acted improperly with deadly use of force, perhaps you should play out some of these scenarios while using someone you love as a police officer.

I 100% support professional law enforcement when they act accordingly to serve and protect civilians, while respecting and observing our rights as free citizens.
ALL of us.

I cannot speak loudly enough against the once mostly hidden, and now very obvious law enforcement trends that are playing out in real time because of instant video and social media.

As free citizens it is beyond crucial that we are allowed to question the training, tactics, employment, and policies of the men and women WE pay to serve and protect us.

If you actually believe that an incident such as this should not be investigated for more than 5 minutes....
 
#12      
Scoregasm
skyIdub said:
The subject could have been having a mental episode.
The subject could have been threatening to attack with the bat, without actually attacking.
The subject could have been actively attacking someone else.
The subject could have been actively attacking the police.
The subject could have been simply holding the bat and the police preemptively attempted to restrain him, causing him to react.
The subject could have been armed with something other than the bat, but not wielding that weapon.
The subject could have been trying to retreat from the officers.
The subject could have gained the upper hand in a struggle with the police and they feared he would gain access to their gun.
The subject could have been actively trying to grab the officers gun during a struggle.
The officer could have grabbed his gun unintentionally while meaning to grab his taser in the heat of a struggle.

Etc...etc...etc...

If you are hair triggered to simply assume the officers acted accordingly when using deadly force, perhaps you should play out some of these and other scenarios while using someone you love as the subject.

If you are hair triggered to simply assume the officers acted improperly with deadly use of force, perhaps you should play out some of these scenarios while using someone you love as a police officer.

I 100% support professional law enforcement when they act accordingly to serve and protect civilians, while respecting and observing our rights as free citizens.
ALL of us.

I cannot speak loudly enough against the once mostly hidden, and now very obvious law enforcement trends that are playing out in real time because of instant video and social media.

As free citizens it is beyond crucial that we are allowed to question the training, tactics, employment, and policies of the men and women WE pay to serve and protect us.

If you actually believe that an incident such as this should not be investigated for more than 5 minutes....
Click to expand...
The subject could have been reading this forum causing a mental episode.
 
#13      
SummerofGeorge
skyIdub said:
The subject could have been having a mental episode.
The subject could have been threatening to attack with the bat, without actually attacking.
The subject could have been actively attacking someone else.
The subject could have been actively attacking the police.
The subject could have been simply holding the bat and the police preemptively attempted to restrain him, causing him to react.
The subject could have been armed with something other than the bat, but not wielding that weapon.
The subject could have been trying to retreat from the officers.
The subject could have gained the upper hand in a struggle with the police and they feared he would gain access to their gun.
The subject could have been actively trying to grab the officers gun during a struggle.
The officer could have grabbed his gun unintentionally while meaning to grab his taser in the heat of a struggle.

Etc...etc...etc...

If you are hair triggered to simply assume the officers acted accordingly when using deadly force, perhaps you should play out some of these and other scenarios while using someone you love as the subject.

If you are hair triggered to simply assume the officers acted improperly with deadly use of force, perhaps you should play out some of these scenarios while using someone you love as a police officer.

I 100% support professional law enforcement when they act accordingly to serve and protect civilians, while respecting and observing our rights as free citizens.
ALL of us.

I cannot speak loudly enough against the once mostly hidden, and now very obvious law enforcement trends that are playing out in real time because of instant video and social media.

As free citizens it is beyond crucial that we are allowed to question the training, tactics, employment, and policies of the men and women WE pay to serve and protect us.

If you actually believe that an incident such as this should not be investigated for more than 5 minutes....
Click to expand...
I am not disagreeing with this, however, there are some other disturbing trends too. One of which is the total disregard for authority and the danger this presents to officers who serve and protect. The other is the 147 officers in the US killed in the line of duty last year which is a 25% increase over the previous year. We have a mental health crisis, a huge accountability deficit, and complete lack of regard for authority in this country. I wonder how many on this forum would be willing to enter into this field in this day and age. Can’t say I would which is why I have tremendous respect for those that do.
 
#14      
skyIdub
SummerofGeorge said:
I am not disagreeing with this, however, there are some other disturbing trends too. One of which is the total disregard for authority and the danger this presents to officers who serve and protect. The other is the 147 officers in the US killed in the line of duty last year which is a 25% increase over the previous year. We have a mental health crisis, a huge accountability deficit, and complete lack of regard for authority in this country. I wonder how many on this forum would be willing to enter into this field in this day and age. Can’t say I would which is why I have tremendous respect for those that do.
Click to expand...

It was actually my career track until I was exposed to it's underbelly.

The real problem stems back to when we as a free society decided to make arguably two of the most important aspects of a free society....education and law enforcement...two of the lowest paying entry level jobs in our society. Teachers and police.
Now we have seen what happens when we allow these two careers to be pursued by poorly paid, poorly motivated individuals due to the nature of the jobs, the requirements of those jobs, and the pay and benefits associated with them.

They deserve better and so do we.

The majority of the blame lies with us for not demanding that our law enforcement be highly paid, highly educated, and highly trained individuals that are equipped to wield the staggering amount of power they have in a given encounter.

And to lightly counter your second point, which is absolutely valid, it is extremely difficult to ask a large segment of said society to simply bow to their authority when it has been so frighteningly abused for so long.

Police officers choose to put their lives at risk in order to protect ours. Their lives are in danger by the very nature of their jobs. It should never...ever...be an excuse to take another human life. I used my original post to show how many different scenarios absolutely could require the use of deadly force....and how many should NEVER require the use of deadly force. Even if it means law enforcement retreats, deescalates/reevaluates, and waits for better resources.

Sadly we can now see over and over in videos that they are trained to draw their deadly weapons solely on the basis of perceived fear or threat instead of a visible or actual threat.
 
#15      
SummerofGeorge
skyIdub said:
It was actually my career track until I was exposed to it's underbelly.

The real problem stems back to when we as a free society decided to make arguably two of the most important aspects of a free society....education and law enforcement...two of the lowest paying entry level jobs in our society. Teachers and police.
Now we have seen what happens when we allow these two careers to be pursued by poorly paid, poorly motivated individuals due to the nature of the jobs, the requirements of those jobs, and the pay and benefits associated with them.

They deserve better and so do we.

The majority of the blame lies with us for not demanding that our law enforcement be highly paid, highly educated, and highly trained individuals that are equipped to wield the staggering amount of power they have in a given encounter.

And to lightly counter your second point, which is absolutely valid, it is extremely difficult to ask a large segment of said society to simply bow to their authority when it has been so frighteningly abused for so long.

Police officers choose to put their lives at risk in order to protect ours. Their lives are in danger by the very nature of their jobs. It should never...ever...be an excuse to take another human life. I used my original post to show how many different scenarios absolutely could require the use of deadly force....and how many should NEVER require the use of deadly force. Even if it means law enforcement retreats, deescalates/reevaluates, and waits for better resources.

Sadly we can now see over and over in videos that they are trained to draw their deadly weapons solely on the basis of perceived fear or threat instead of a visible or actual threat.
Click to expand...
All fair and valid points. I respect your perspective.
 
#16      
phats22
skyIdub said:
It was actually my career track until I was exposed to it's underbelly.

The real problem stems back to when we as a free society decided to make arguably two of the most important aspects of a free society....education and law enforcement...two of the lowest paying entry level jobs in our society. Teachers and police.
Now we have seen what happens when we allow these two careers to be pursued by poorly paid, poorly motivated individuals due to the nature of the jobs, the requirements of those jobs, and the pay and benefits associated with them.

They deserve better and so do we.

The majority of the blame lies with us for not demanding that our law enforcement be highly paid, highly educated, and highly trained individuals that are equipped to wield the staggering amount of power they have in a given encounter.

And to lightly counter your second point, which is absolutely valid, it is extremely difficult to ask a large segment of said society to simply bow to their authority when it has been so frighteningly abused for so long.

Police officers choose to put their lives at risk in order to protect ours. Their lives are in danger by the very nature of their jobs. It should never...ever...be an excuse to take another human life. I used my original post to show how many different scenarios absolutely could require the use of deadly force....and how many should NEVER require the use of deadly force. Even if it means law enforcement retreats, deescalates/reevaluates, and waits for better resources.

Sadly we can now see over and over in videos that they are trained to draw their deadly weapons solely on the basis of perceived fear or threat instead of a visible or actual threat.
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throw deinstitutionalization of mentally ill without adequate community resources/safety nets and poor training/crisis response frame work for law enforcement in there too
 
#18      
stevej64
If I am in law enforcement and it is a you or me situation it’s definitely gonna be you, Anyone who criticizes the situation should first step in their shoes. Otherwise shut up.
 
#20      
IlliniKat91
kmunt09 said:
New Article is out on this:

www.pjstar.com

Mother says Peoria police shot her son rather than deal with his mental illness

The mother of Brandon Lewis said on a GoFundMe page that Peoria police shot her son rather than deal with his mental illness.
www.pjstar.com
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Cops aren't social workers or therapists and we need to stop treating them as such. I'm all for mental health services in the community to help people, but that's not what the police are for. It's my same gripe for those of us who work in schools; just because we're public facing (like the police), we can't be all things to all people.

That also feels like the kind of quote a lawyer is going to have a field day with in court when the time comes.
 
#21      
CHI 1086
Out here in CA, if a social worker wants a child removed from a home (and to make that recommendation had a very high bar), they must call the the police and the officer makes the call whether or not to execute the removal. Why have social workers?
 
#22      
HereSoIDontGetFined
CHI 1086 said:
Out here in CA, if a social worker wants a child removed from a home (and to make that recommendation had a very high bar), they must call the the police and the officer makes the call whether or not to execute the removal. Why have social workers?
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The point is, there should be a social worker in the picture.

If cops are called to get a person who may be a danger to others under control, it should be assumed that they can use force to do so. It should not be the first option if it's clearly a mental health response.

That said, cops could be more equipped to deal with situations if they were given more than the minimum amount of training to de-escalate situations, which in Peoria (as the rest of the state) is only 16 weeks for new recruits. Never understood why the people told to carry lethal weapons around are thought to be adequately trained with only 10% of the education of most four-year institutions. Minimizing training is a great way to put a bunch of scared rookies on the street with nothing but their sidearm as defense, leading to killings of civilian and officer alike and further mistrust from the communities they serve. It's also a great way to attract ne'er-do-wells to the profession.

Edit: Want to clarify I am not passing judgment on Monte or his partner here; rather, just pointing out that there is a reason police may or may not be equipped with the skills necessary to deal with this type of situation.
 
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#24      
IlliniKat91
HereSoIDontGetFined said:
The point is, there should be a social worker in the picture.

If cops are called to get a person who may be a danger to others under control, it should be assumed that they can use force to do so. It should not be the first option if it's clearly a mental health response.

That said, cops could be more equipped to deal with situations if they were given more than the minimum amount of training to de-escalate situations, which in Peoria (as the rest of the state) is only 16 weeks for new recruits. Never understood why the people told to carry lethal weapons around are thought to be adequately trained with only 10% of the education of most four-year institutions. Minimizing training is a great way to put a bunch of scared rookies on the street with nothing but their sidearm as defense, leading to killings of civilian and officer alike and further mistrust from the communities they serve. It's also a great way to attract ne'er-do-wells to the profession.

Edit: Want to clarify I am not passing judgment on Monte or his partner here; rather, just pointing out that there is a reason police may or may not be equipped with the skills necessary to deal with this type of situation.
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This was very well put. I do think police officers deserve more training (it protects them and the community) and I suspect we'd see better outcomes.

I think there's something to be said for embedding social workers in with police departments, too. I don't think it would have headed off this tragedy, but if they'd been able to get to that gentleman earlier, he would have had another resource better equipped to help him instead of having to put two officers in a position where they were forced to react in the moment.
 
#25      
the juiceman cometh
IlliniKat91 said:
This was very well put. I do think police officers deserve more training (it protects them and the community) and I suspect we'd see better outcomes.

I think there's something to be said for embedding social workers in with police departments, too. I don't think it would have headed off this tragedy, but if they'd been able to get to that gentleman earlier, he would have had another resource better equipped to help him instead of having to put two officers in a position where they were forced to react in the moment.
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I think that's probably the best we can do, but I ultimately don't think it solves the problem. Unless you basically partner every officer with a social worker 100% of the time, you are going to have police officers encountering individuals in extreme mental/emotional distress, and they are not going to be adequately equipped to deal with it.

We live in a country where there are more guns than people, and ultimately that's at the heart of the issue. This inherently makes both policing and social work more dangerous. In many European countries, police don't even carry guns. That's just not possible here. It also leads to police in the US being forced to adopt an almost military mindset, because almost any police/citizen interaction has the potential to turn violent (even when there is not a mental health crisis at play). Every single house call, every single vehicular stop, there's the potential that someone is armed with lethal force and willing to use it. The lack of adequate mental and social supports obviously exacerbates the issue, but it's not just that either. There are a lot of police shootings where the person shot did not actually do anything wrong, but I am positive the police officer, for whatever reason, felt a genuine fear of imminent harm. If you fear that any given person could potentially kill you for doing your job, that is going to affect how you react to a given situation.

Not sure what the solution is, probably there isn't any easy one.
 
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