Misko doesn't accept returns.But wait, it was on ESPN.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
- Status
This makes sense. It similar to me to new football recruits enrolling at the semester break."He will practice with the Illini and focus on strength training and development for the remainder of this season but will not participate in games."
Fighting Illini Adding Bilic to Roster - University of Illinois Athletics
Head Coach Brad Underwood announced Tuesday that Toni Bilic has signed a Big Ten Athletics Aid Agreement with the University of Illinois and will join the Fightingfightingillini.com
then you've had a rough couple of decades
I probably shouldnāt have quoted your post but rather just made it stand alone, but thought it would seem too much a non sequitur. Thatās why I said that l wasnāt trying to rip on you or the post really. It just happened to flip a switch with me this morning. And I use KenPom as a tool and check in periodically to see where teams. But I do think there is a contingent that places way too much emphasis on it (again, not saying you).
It seems just about every postgame thread for a win will include a post within first five pages citing where Illini are in KenPom as if a win itself isnāt enough and the real accomplishment is moving up in KenPom. Iām sure similar posts are in the threads for losing games about drops in rankings though probably a bit later cuz first 5+ pages are people bitching and knocking the team with a sledge hammer. I tend to jump over those pages when I finally do go into the thread.
I think there is a contingent of fans that given two Illini teams with the exact number of wins, placing in conference standings and finish in conference tournament, but one team wins one more NCAAT game but the other is ranked 10 places higher in KenPom that they would say the latter team was ābetter.ā Iām not a guy who thinks if Illini donāt make it to at least E8 or F4 that it is a bust. But I do value wins in NCAAT (actually wins of any kind) more than I value KenPom ranking. But then again, if one likes KenPom rankings, Brad has provided a lot of hig ones.
āYou said he was in Danger. I said āGrave danger?ā You said āis there another kindā? I can have the court reporter read backā¦..ā
āI know what I said I donāt have to have it read back to meā¦.ā
āThen why the two orders!!!?ā
Name that movie!
The thing I've tried to take into account is the increase in schedule difficulty. Tougher schedule results in a few more losses, but higher metrics (NET, KP, etcetera) which is what is used to get you that higher seed... the committee wants to know (a) how many actual 'good' teams you've played and (b) how well you did in those games. The metrics provide exactly that.
It has been said that 20 wins in a season isn't as difficult to achieve now, because we play 2-3 more games per regular season... but I also try to take into account we're creating a very tough schedule for ourselves now, so it kind of balances out in a way. Our non-conference SOS is like 115 spots better/higher the last two seasons than it has been the previous 20 seasons (using available historical KP data). Think about the 2004-05 team... that team didn't really play anyone in the non-conference outside of Wake Forest, and it was always like that, year after year... maybe 1 or 2 tests and that's it. Also, the B1G added some really good programs recently. We are no longer guaranteed to play 2 games vs the worst teams like it was for years and years.
So when we are 8-3 and have 3 Q1 wins (most in the country is 4), no bad losses despite what anyone wants to think about Nebrasketball (they're good), and ranked in top 15 of KP & NET and also #18 in a poll and people want to fire the coach** I begin to question why we'd give up on a team so quickly. Is it because over the course of the past 20, 30, 40 years we are used to playing Merrimack Baptist Holy Sisters of Christ University 10x and being 10-1 to start the B1G slate? I dunno, but its crossed my mind.
** granted, the fire the coach people are insane, but people are saying it nonetheless
Last edited:
A Few Good Men - RIP Rob Reiner
Just when I thought it was safe to turn the tv back on.
Today apparently Jizzle James was re-added to Cincinnati's roster and I'm not hearing near the amount of complaints.
Over optimistic pro potential.
Not banned but optional.
If Kofi came back and had similar numbers to his junior year he would have: broken or gotten very close to breaking the school all-time points record and absolutely crushed the school records for defensive rebounds, offensive rebounds, and total rebounds. As a fan, and a big fan of Kofi's, I am still bummed we missed out on that.
Sure, that is success, but you also have to acknowledge that success does not necessarily equal merit. A lot of success, in March and generally, is luck and random happenstance. What KenPom does is tell you how good a team is. What measuring success in the Tournament does is measure how well the team performed on a given day against a given opponent (or two or six).
Going back to the 2021 Tourney let's look at the draw we got. We ended up facing, according to Kenpom, a top 10 team that had won 19 of its last 20 games, in the second round. That's not a good draw. To contrast, starting in the 2nd round, Michigan faced LSU (KP #24), FSU (#15), and then lost to UCLA (#13) in the Elite Eight. So they made the Elite Eight and never faced a team as good as the one that beat us (according to KenPom). You could argue that their loss to UCLA was worse than our loss to Loyola, yet that was certainly a much more successful Tournament run than ours.
As for the other #1 seeds, Gonzaga faced Oklahoma (#39), Creighton (#22), and then a very good USC team (#6) in the EE. So it took them until the Elite Eight to face a team of the same caliber we faced in the 2nd round. Baylor's road to a championship, again starting in 2nd round, was Wisconsin (#14), Villanova (#12), Arkansas (#18), and then in the Final Four finally faced a top-10 team in Houston (#5). A tougher run than Michigan's or Gonzaga's, for sure, but still did not face a team ranked higher in KP than Loyola until the Final Four.
Look, do I still think we should have found a way to beat Loyola. Yes. Am I disappointed. Of course and that will never go away. But I'm not going to discount that season because of it. That was an amazing season, and it was a success, even if the tournament was not. We won the BTT. We won two more games than anyone else in the conference. If we get a different draw, maybe things end up entirely differently. Even if the end was not great, 99% of the season was the stuff of dreams, so I'm going to appreciate that 99%. When I think back on how much joy I experienced because of that team, the thing that saddens me is not how it ended, but how so much of the fanbase is unable to appreciate that team because of how it ended. I really think those guys deserve better than to be remembered just for that one game.
This guy Scott Hughes really likes to twist the blade, doesn't he? First, he trolls that Mihailo has left the program, then he "thanks" the guys at ESPN who were dumb enough to report the fake claim live on national TV. Are they smart enough to realize they've just been trolled as well?But wait, it was on ESPN.
Star wars with Dustin Hoffman and I don't need the court reporter to read it back to me! check the tower logs!
Interesting situation there and a little different ā¦ Kid has been enrolled at Cincy the entire year, just away from the team ā¦
Interesting because Wes is so desperate to save his job heās bringing this kid back after everything this summer ā¦ Thatās certainly a strategy ā¦
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Honestly, itās kind of refreshing to see Illinois pushing the boundaries on rules like this. After so many years of watching us play by the letter and spirit of the rules while others happily played in the gray areas, I have no problems testing where the boundaries are.
That's a very fluid situation.
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
Kofi may have broken the school record for career rebounds if he had stayed another year. That being said, prior to 1972, freshmen couldn't play on the varsity squad so they had only three years to accumulate 'career' stats. They only played ~ 25 games in those days, vs. ~ 30 during Kofi's time. Nick Weatherspoon, Skip Thoren, Dave Downey, Don Freeman and Dave Scholtz all had better career averages than Kofi. If you look at average career rebounds per game, Weatherspoon tops Kofi 11.3 to 9.6. Granted, Kofi missed his senior year, not his freshman year like those other listed.
Glad you brought this up. I was a h.s. teammate of Downey's at Canton. Sort of. I spent most of my time watching him from the bench. He was a superb rebounder for a guy 6-4, who wasn't really a skywalker. Guile, anticipation, and positioning. His bb IQ was off the charts. Anyway, we got together for lunch in Champaign about 12 nyrs. ago. He pointed out the irony of the birth of the shot clock. He noted that back in the day, Illini games and other B1G teams usually had more shots, missed and made, more misses created more rebounding opportunities. One example was the game he scored 53. We lost to Indiana something like 103-100. They had a deadly shooter named Jimmy Rayl. Rayl was of the give-me-the-ball-I can't-miss school. Defense was just boredom you endured while waiting to get the ball back.
Last edited:
Sure, but longevity is a thing that should be rewarded too. Which is why we keep track of both career and single season records, and even single game records, and also averages records and cumulative records. Plus the only guys ahead of Kofi on the rebound list are James Augustine and Mike Davis, both 4 year guys.
Also, if we're comparing nuances of different eras, it's worth pointing out there were just a lot more rebounds available in the 60s and 70s.
In 62'-63-, Downey's Sr. season, the Illini averaged 51.9 rebounds a game and their opponents 48.9, for a total of 100.8.
In '64-65, Thoren's Sr. season, it was 53.3 reb/game for Illini and 50.8 for opponents, for a total of 104.1.
IN '68-'69, Scholz's Sr. season, it was 47.7 and 39.9, totaling 87.6.
In '72-'73, Spoon's Sr. season, 44.4 and 49.3, totaling 93.7.
In '21-22, Kofi's last year, we nabbed 38.5 boards/game and opponents averaged 33.0, for a total of 71.5 rebounds a game total. Between 15 and 30 fewer rebounds to go around per game than the guys you listed.
So for Kofi, who averaged 30 a game, you're talking probably talking around 15 fewer opportunities per game to grab a rebound than a guy like Spoon, who has the highest rebounds per game of any Illini, at 11.4 vs Kofi's 9.6. If he gets just 2 of those 15, he's the all-time leader in rebounds per game. If he sticks true to his absurd rebound rate of 19.2%, then he's passing Spoon by an entire rebound a game.
Touche. It's always risky comparing stats from different eras. Spoon frequently had to compete with teammate Nick Conner, another top ten Illini rebounder, for those boards.
- Status