CFP & Bowl Games

[BashCtIllini]

As a fan I do not think trading watching really bad football for a 1% chance that a team can catch up talent wise is worthwhile, and judging by the rule change specific to ND next year, no one else in CFB really does either.

JMUs league is pilaged by P4 teams for staff and players every year. If there was really a desire for competitiveness they would start by trying to balance that.

It's not even a 1% chance. If you don't have to money, you have 0 chance, period. Any time you get a stud player, they will transfer at the end of the season. It's not like basketball where 1 stud can carry you, you need a roster. Can a James Madison or Tulane win a single game against a top 12 team? sure. But they're not winning 3. Being in the playoffs will not increase their recruiting to the point where someone is going to Tulane instead of LSU, or even Purdue, Boston College, Kentucky, etc if they're offering more money.

The problem with Alabama, Miami, Notre Dame, and BYU goes away if Tulane and James Madison didn't make it, and I can guarantee you they would have been much better games if Notre Dame and BYU were playing.

If you are making bowls irrelevant and saying ok top 4 wasn't enough, we're bringing in the top 12, then actually bring in the top 12, not the top 10 and these other guys.

 

[fuddrules]

The 2 teams that got in ahead of ND are going to lose by a combined 50+ pts in games over in the first half, is that really enjoyable for anyone?

Ore or Ole Miss vs ND would be an infinitely more enjoyable game, even for rooting against ND.

Oregon and Tennessee lost by a combined 45 points last year.

 

[lstewart53x3]

Had what I would consider a “normie” Ohio St football fan over for a Christmas party tonight. By normie, I mean he doesn’t live and die by the results of each game like a lot of us here do, but he grew up in Ohio, and went to Ohio St, so he’s a fan.

And I just have to say, what a different fan experience he has compared to us.

First, he doesn’t watch Ohio St basketball at all and none of his friends do either. Wasn’t even aware we beat them in basketball recently.

Second, he doesn’t *really* start to pay attention to the football season until the Michigan game each year because he doesn’t need to. He watched the Texas game week one, then basically just skimmed the scores and highlights until the Michigan game.

Even the B1G championship, he went to bed before it was over because “who cares about Indiana”.

Now that the playoffs are starting, he’s following closely who OSU will be playing, the other teams in the field, etc, but for him, the season basically just started.

Very different fan experience when you win almost every game by 20+ points.

In some ways, it’s way better and less stressful. In other ways, it’s not as exciting as the experience we get to have.

And again, this isn’t a message board fan, this is a regular fan. I’m sure there are fans who are upset that they beat Illinois this year by “only” 18 and can’t believe their recruiting class is “only” #7.

But I’m sure there’s also a huge group of fans who don’t bother tuning into every game because they know they’re going to win. Like imagine if Illinois basketball only played FCGU every game of the season. You’d eventually want a challenge. It’s kinda like that.

 

[jamarvelous31]

Oregon and Tennessee lost by a combined 45 points last year.

In two separate rounds against a juggernaut tOSU team (who Ore beat during the season). And Tenn vs OSU was at least an 11 pt game at half...not 34-6.

Are you just being argumentative or do you really believe AQs losing by 45 pts every year is a good thing?

 

[fuddrules]

In two separate rounds against a juggernaut tOSU team (who Ore beat during the season). And Tenn vs OSU was at least an 11 pt game at half...not 34-6.

Are you just being argumentative or do you really believe AQs losing by 45 pts every year is a good thing?

"In two separate rounds" Which is more the point, it happens. It happens to good teams.

Playing on the road is tough, as an Illinois fan you should know this.

It's just the ubiquitous elitism argument, blah, blah, blah, they don't belong....it happens to P2 playoff teams as well. How do we justify that when we know it happens?

Will all for quarterfinal games be great games, down to the wire and super close? Will every team look like they belong?

I will say this, I wish Illinois football last year could have been as competitive and fought back like JMU did this year.

 

[fuddrules]

Illinois State, for time ever in FCS that a team has won 4 road games to make the championship. They were unseeded. If they win, maybe the first ever unseeded FCS team to win it all? I can't find an unseeded team to win the championship.

 

[jamarvelous31]

"In two separate rounds" Which is more the point, it happens. It happens to good teams.

Playing on the road is tough, as an Illinois fan you should know this.

It's just the ubiquitous elitism argument, blah, blah, blah, they don't belong....it happens to P2 playoff teams as well. How do we justify that when we know it happens?

Will all for quarterfinal games be great games, down to the wire and super close? Will every team look like they belong?

I will say this, I wish Illinois football last year could have been as competitive and fought back like JMU did this year.

2nd year in a row the AQs lost by a total of 45 points.

Tulane as the 20th ranked team, with a worse resume than IL, getting blown out by the same team that blew them out earlier in the year is only good for Tulane. JMU scoring some points on Ore's backups doesn't make it a good game.

Wanting to watch evenly matched, high level football isn't elitism. Arguing otherwise is silly.

 

[fuddrules]

True tweet, weird stuff, like most of the A&M cult.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2002485543192707158

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

2nd year in a row the AQs lost by a total of 45 points.

Tulane as the 20th ranked team, with a worse resume than IL, getting blown out by the same team that blew them out earlier in the year is only good for Tulane. JMU scoring some points on Ore's backups doesn't make it a good game.

Wanting to watch evenly matched, high level football isn't elitism. Arguing otherwise is silly.

you are pretending that allowing one or two G5 schools in does nothing

you are ignoring the college sports politics & the washington dc politics that allows the CFP to occur with out restraint of trade lawsuits .

it’s the price to pay for peace.
are you just as upset that there are AQ in the March Madness tourney . ? there is zero chance 10 of those conference champions winning it

 

[IlliniFaninHoosierLand]

Illinois State, for time ever in FCS that a team has won 4 road games to make the championship. They were unseeded. If they win, maybe the first ever unseeded FCS team to win it all? I can't find an unseeded team to win the championship.

Quick google search I did found that unseeded teams have won I-AA/FCS championship 5 times with the most recent being Western Kentucky in 2002 (So if ISU wins, it would be first time since it has been known as FCS). It should be noted though that back then it was a 16 team bracket and only the top 4 teams were seeded.

 

[MoCoMdIllini]

True tweet, weird stuff, like most of the A&M cult.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2002485543192707158

Are those guys on the right going to show some cows at the fair right after this?

 

[Scoregasm]

Had what I would consider a “normie” Ohio St football fan over for a Christmas party tonight. By normie, I mean he doesn’t live and die by the results of each game like a lot of us here do, but he grew up in Ohio, and went to Ohio St, so he’s a fan.

And I just have to say, what a different fan experience he has compared to us.

First, he doesn’t watch Ohio St basketball at all and none of his friends do either. Wasn’t even aware we beat them in basketball recently.

Second, he doesn’t *really* start to pay attention to the football season until the Michigan game each year because he doesn’t need to. He watched the Texas game week one, then basically just skimmed the scores and highlights until the Michigan game.

Even the B1G championship, he went to bed before it was over because “who cares about Indiana”.

Now that the playoffs are starting, he’s following closely who OSU will be playing, the other teams in the field, etc, but for him, the season basically just started.

Very different fan experience when you win almost every game by 20+ points.

In some ways, it’s way better and less stressful. In other ways, it’s not as exciting as the experience we get to have.

And again, this isn’t a message board fan, this is a regular fan. I’m sure there are fans who are upset that they beat Illinois this year by “only” 18 and can’t believe their recruiting class is “only” #7.

But I’m sure there’s also a huge group of fans who don’t bother tuning into every game because they know they’re going to win. Like imagine if Illinois basketball only played FCGU every game of the season. You’d eventually want a challenge. It’s kinda like that.

I don't call these types of people fans, just bandwagoners.

 

[MoCoMdIllini]

Second, he doesn’t *really* start to pay attention to the football season until the Michigan game each year because he doesn’t need to. He watched the Texas game week one, then basically just skimmed the scores and highlights until the Michigan game.

*snip*

Very different fan experience when you win almost every game by 20+ points.

That was my relationship with Bulls basketball in the 1990s, especially the year they went 72-10. I'd check the score and was usually surprised the days they lost.

I watched a bit more as there was an outside chance they might go the year with only single digit losses, but when the 10th came I just waited until the playoffs started.

So I get that mindset 100%. When there is not much mystery about whether you're team wins or not, you find other things to do.

 

[jamarvelous31]

you are pretending that allowing one or two G5 schools in does nothing

you are ignoring the college sports politics & the washington dc politics that allows the CFP to occur with out restraint of trade lawsuits .

it’s the price to pay for peace.
are you just as upset that there are AQ in the March Madness tourney . ? there is zero chance 10 of those conference champions winning it

Yep. Because as a fan I care about watching good football and that doesn't need to be nuanced.

You're comparing apples to pineapples. Part of the bball tourneys charm is that a 11 wins every year and a 12 every 4. 11 & 12 AQs haven't been competitive in a game yet.

 

[pweo]

Yep. Because as a fan I care about watching good football and that doesn't need to be nuanced.

You're comparing apples to pineapples. Part of the bball tourneys charm is that a 11 wins every year and a 12 every 4. 11 & 12 AQs haven't been competitive in a game yet.

For what its worth, Clemson (12) was the low auto-qualifier last year. The next lowest was a 4 (unless it was some special ND rule again).

Conference champions have yet to win a game in the 12 team CFP era and only 1 kept it within a touchdown. We should exclude them too /s

 

[zentrails]

True tweet, weird stuff, like most of the A&M cult.

looks like a parody of a German beer drinking song/dance

 

[lstewart53x3]

I don't call these types of people fans, just bandwagoners.

I can see that.

From his perspective, though, going back to the playoffs last year, Ohio St is 16-1 with their lone loss by 3 points in the B1G championship this year.

Over those 17 games, they won a national championship and were +414 in points scored, winning 16 games by an average 26 points each.

Over the past 5 years, they are 59-9 (averaging 12-2 each season) with the majority of those losses happening to Michigan or in the playoffs (the games he watches).

Imagine if we had the same resources we have now, but played in the MAC, and went undefeated every year until the last game of the season when we began playing teams of a similar caliber. It might eventually get boring to tune in to watch Illinois play Western Michigans week after week.

A basketball equivalent: a 26 point football win is what, a 40 point basketball win? We beat LIU by 40. You’re saying that if we played an LIU type team all the way up until the NCAA tournament, you’d still be excited to watch every single game?

Again, I’m sure Ohio St has a huge group of ravenous fans that enjoy watching their team feast on Northwesterns all season long, but I can also appreciate our type of fandom where every week is exciting and every win is meaningful.

 

[1LL1N1]

Forgot that Tony Petersen is still at Illinois State. Good for him.

 

[fuddrules]

2nd year in a row the AQs lost by a total of 45 points.

Tulane as the 20th ranked team, with a worse resume than IL, getting blown out by the same team that blew them out earlier in the year is only good for Tulane. JMU scoring some points on Ore's backups doesn't make it a good game.

Wanting to watch evenly matched, high level football isn't elitism. Arguing otherwise is silly.

I think trying to consolidate power (e.g. money) within a few or smaller subset is nothing other than elitism. You'll continue to get a smaller and smaller subset. JMU was there because the ACC, one of the "power" players, couldn't get their conference champion ranked higher than JMU. That's a good thing, IMO.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

the minute you totally shut out the G5, (and lets face it, it will be like once every 5 years or so one is lucky enough to go undefeated and be ranked in top 12) you will have US Senators from some states clamoring for anti trust hearings and things will only get worse.
Its okay as it is. Perfect ? no, but you can never get perfection in this so why make that the goal.

It will go to 16 teams , as this 12 teams format with bye rounds and home games is hardly ideal.
Once you get 16, the B1G and SEC will get 4 auto qualifiers.
The remaining 8 will go to two B12, two ACC, one G5, and the 3 highest ranked others .
ND will need to finish in the top 15 with no assurances they can get in. There is a price to pay for being independent and setting your own schedule

 

[the juiceman cometh]

the minute you totally shut out the G5, (and lets face it, it will be like once every 5 years or so one is lucky enough to go undefeated and be ranked in top 12) you will have US Senators from some states clamoring for anti trust hearings and things will only get worse.
Its okay as it is. Perfect ? no, but you can never get perfection in this so why make that the goal.

It will go to 16 teams , as this 12 teams format with bye rounds and home games is hardly ideal.
Once you get 16, the B1G and SEC will get 4 auto qualifiers.
The remaining 8 will go to two B12, two ACC, one G5, and the 3 highest ranked others .
ND will need to finish in the top 15 with no assurances they can get in. There is a price to pay for being independent and setting your own schedule

This is a good proposal, but it is very similar to the Big Ten proposal that the SEC rejected and got other conferences to reject. The SEC won't go for this because it limits how many teams they can get in. Under this, the max amount of teams the SEC could get into a 16 team playoff would be 7, and realistically looking at probably 5 or 6. They are already getting 5 teams into a 12 team playoff (and half those teams don't deserve to be there). No upside for the marketing machine that is the SEC, so the SEC will reject. SEC wants to limit AQs and maximize at-large bids, so they can use the ESPN megaphone to jam mid teams like Mizzou and Vandy down everyone's throat.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

This is a good proposal, but it is very similar to the Big Ten proposal that the SEC rejected and got other conferences to reject. The SEC won't go for this because it limits how many teams they can get in. Under this, the max amount of teams the SEC could get into a 16 team playoff would be 7, and realistically looking at probably 5 or 6. They are already getting 5 teams into a 12 team playoff (and half those teams don't deserve to be there). No upside for the marketing machine that is the SEC, so the SEC will reject. SEC wants to limit AQs and maximize at-large bids, so they can use the ESPN megaphone to jam mid teams like Mizzou and Vandy down everyone's throat.

I get your point .

But a good salesman never takes no as a permanent answer . It’s up to Petitti , Whitman and Ross Bjork to sell it to Sankey, Phillips & Yornark .

It’s hardly a deal killer as is right now . Some ideas just need to ferment for awhile. Remember how the B1G was all alone on the 9 game conference schedule and then wow, all three other leagues fell in line

 

[jamarvelous31]

I think trying to consolidate power (e.g. money) within a few or smaller subset is nothing other than elitism. You'll continue to get a smaller and smaller subset. JMU was there because the ACC, one of the "power" players, couldn't get their conference champion ranked higher than JMU. That's a good thing, IMO.

So we should all watch bad football so you can pretend power isn't already consolidated into the B10 & SEC. Got it.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I get your point .

But a good salesman never takes no as a permanent answer . It’s up to Petitti , Whitman and Ross Bjork to sell it to Sankey, Phillips & Yornark .

It’s hardly a deal killer as is right now . Some ideas just need to ferment for awhile. Remember how the B1G was all alone on the 9 game conference schedule and then wow, all three other leagues fell in line

Yes, but the entire reason they fell in line with 9 games was to take away a major talking point the Big Ten was pushing in favor of their proposal.

The SEC would rather keep the 12 team format than change to a 16-team format that would dilute its representation in the playoff. And without the SEC, no deal.

 

[Grandpa]

This is a good proposal, but it is very similar to the Big Ten proposal that the SEC rejected and got other conferences to reject. The SEC won't go for this because it limits how many teams they can get in. Under this, the max amount of teams the SEC could get into a 16 team playoff would be 7, and realistically looking at probably 5 or 6. They are already getting 5 teams into a 12 team playoff (and half those teams don't deserve to be there). No upside for the marketing machine that is the SEC, so the SEC will reject. SEC wants to limit AQs and maximize at-large bids, so they can use the ESPN megaphone to jam mid teams like Mizzou and Vandy down everyone's throat.

They're pretty good, but The American Angus Association is better.