Illini Basketball All-21st Century Team

Status
Not open for further replies.
#51      
oldmanindian
Is it true that Dee can no longer have contact with the Illini basketball program? Is he in the Illini Hall of Fame?
 
#52      
FreshlySqueezed
Battle89 said:
I probably start him a little lower than others here, so yes, I like the way you're thinking. Extra credit for the second generation.

Cook also may be a little high for me, but much like your comment on Luther, I'd probably be surprised if I went and looked up his numbers.

My biggest takeaway from this exercise is wondering where all the forwards are after 2000. Thinking back pre-2000 to Deon, Nick, Spoon, etc.
Click to expand...
Cook led the team in rebounding all 4 years he was in Champaign.

And you don't see as many forwards in no small part because the game has changed significantly. It became a guard dominated game even by the early 2000's.
 
#53      
splitter
21ChampaignSt said:
TSJ for Cook on the first team is one change I'd consider. Don't have any problem with it as is but, besides Dee, TSJ might be the closest an Illinois player ever got to Naismith NPOY.

I also might swap Demetri and Malcolm. Demetri has a 1st team all big ten selection on his resume and is still top 5 all time in assists in the big ten. He also led his team to a couple tournament appearances which is something Malcolm unfortunately could not do.

That final spot is hard. There are guys like Feliz, Plummer, Curbelo, and, Domask who had great individual seasons but not enough years in an Illinois jersey. Kendrick Nunn is a name to consider here. DJ Richardson might be as deserving as Coleman. Both had long Illini careers. Good but not great individual contributions but Coleman had more team success. Leron Black is another good not great player on lousy teams.

Fun exercise. It always blows me away that we had such an insane stretch of point guards. Frank > Dee and Deron > Demetri. We were Point Guard U in the 2000s.
Click to expand...
Hard to leave TJ off the first team, but Cook was 4 years as a 4, Shannon 2 years as a 2. How the game has changed and we don't think power forward and off guard anymore.
Only change i would make is adding honorable mentions.
 
#56      
Emerson Bigguns
I was ready to die on the senior TSJ over Junior Ayo hill, but the stats just don't bear it out. Ayo was a better rebounder and a better passer. (You will get a lot of assists when you have a Kofi on the block, but that just makes the rebounds more impressive)
TJ was just such a breathtaking athlete that it clouds my judgement. He totally should have been a 1st team AA, but when you consider these guys started playing college basketball the same year, and you see how fast Ayo became an absolute problem compared to TJ.... Combine it with the extent to which he raised the bar in the program, and essentially was the blueprint TJ followed to level up his game...
The argument falls apart.

1767993556331.png


1767993523975.png
 
#57      
the juiceman cometh
Emerson Bigguns said:
I was ready to die on the senior TSJ over Junior Ayo hill, but the stats just don't bear it out. Ayo was a better rebounder and a better passer. (You will get a lot of assists when you have a Kofi on the block, but that just makes the rebounds more impressive)
TJ was just such a breathtaking athlete that it clouds my judgement. He totally should have been a 1st team AA, but when you consider these guys started playing college basketball the same year, and you see how fast Ayo became an absolute problem compared to TJ.... Combine it with the extent to which he raised the bar in the program, and essentially was the blueprint TJ followed to level up his game...
The argument falls apart.

View attachment 46350

View attachment 46349
Click to expand...
Seeing what he wound up doing in the NBA, can you just IMAGINE what a senior year Ayo would have been like? Or a super-senior year Ayo?
 
#58      
mysterio2525
Emerson Bigguns said:
I was ready to die on the senior TSJ over Junior Ayo hill, but the stats just don't bear it out. Ayo was a better rebounder and a better passer. (You will get a lot of assists when you have a Kofi on the block, but that just makes the rebounds more impressive)
TJ was just such a breathtaking athlete that it clouds my judgement. He totally should have been a 1st team AA, but when you consider these guys started playing college basketball the same year, and you see how fast Ayo became an absolute problem compared to TJ.... Combine it with the extent to which he raised the bar in the program, and essentially was the blueprint TJ followed to level up his game...
The argument falls apart.

View attachment 46350

View attachment 46349
Click to expand...
very interesting. I've gone back and forth on this and the one thing that swayed me in the past was just how good TSJ was at the end of the season. is it fair to account for the time off that TSJ had to take due to suspension and then the subsequent few games he needed to get back into form? I think so but that's only a few games.

I see your point with Ayo and it's close. but the big ten tourney run by TSJ was unlike anything I've ever seen so maybe that clouds my judgement.
 
#59      
Calvin
mysterio2525 said:
very interesting. I've gone back and forth on this and the one thing that swayed me in the past was just how good TSJ was at the end of the season. is it fair to account for the time off that TSJ had to take due to suspension and then the subsequent few games he needed to get back into form? I think so but that's only a few games.

I see your point with Ayo and it's close. but the big ten tourney run by TSJ was unlike anything I've ever seen so maybe that clouds my judgement.
Click to expand...

The stat that jumps out for me is FTA. Way more per game for TSJ, and as much as Ayo attacked the basket, TSJ did it more. Other stats are similar with the nod to Ayo. TSJ was a very good defender too.

Agree Ayo was clutch and loved those do-or-die moments. I was at the game mid-court when he made that impossible game winner over Michigan. It was something to behold. Just a joy to have those two guys who played for multiple years and did so much for the program.
 
#60      
Navy_illini
HensonHall71 said:
I don't think you are representing Dee correctly. Here are his accolades from the '05 team. I think this is easily the most decorated year of an Illini player this century and he's Illinois' all time winningest player with 114 wins

2005: Consensus First-Team All-American, Sporting News National Player of the Year, Big Ten Player of the Year, Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year
Click to expand...
For 2005 the AP All American team Dee was 2nd team; however you are right he was on the consensus team. He was first team for USBWA and sporting news. Dee Luther and Deron were 2nd team for NABC.

2005 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

www.basketball-reference.com

NCAA College Basketball AP All-America Teams | Basketball-Reference.com

NCAA College Basketball AP All-America Teams
www.basketball-reference.com www.basketball-reference.com
 
#62      
Navy_illini
splitter said:
So then, who is the coach of this team?
Imagine the one who went to the championship game finishes in 3rd place
Click to expand...
Coach would be tough for me. Self has highest winning percentage followed by Weber and BU. BU percentage should go up. Self was great when he was here and if he stayed would have probably continued his success. Weber was good and has a final four here. inherited a lot of talent but couldn’t recruit to sustain the success. BU rebuilt the program.

I would take BU with the current model of NIL.

Self was 35-13 in conference 78-24 overall 1 BTT and 2 conference titles

Weber was 89-65 in conference 210-165 overall BTT and 2 conference titles 1 BTT

BU is 80-58 in conference 147-89 overall and 1 conference title with one stolen by scUM
 
#63      
Illini88
Navy_illini said:
Coach would be tough for me. Self has highest winning percentage followed by Weber and BU. BU percentage should go up. Self was great when he was here and if he stayed would have probably continued his success. Weber was good and has a final four here. inherited a lot of talent but couldn’t recruit to sustain the success. BU rebuilt the program.

I would take BU with the current model of NIL.

Self was 35-13 in conference 78-24 overall 1 BTT and 2 conference titles

Weber was 89-65 in conference 210-165 overall BTT and 2 conference titles 1 BTT

BU is 80-58 in conference 147-89 overall and 1 conference title with one stolen by scUM
Click to expand...
Self recruits. BU runs practice and locker room. Weber coaches the game
 
#64      
OrangeBlue98
This is a fun, but challenging exercise.

Four of my starting five are Deron, Ayo, TSJ, and Cook. The fifth spot probably has to be Kofi.

I know I’m putting Dee and Frank on the bench. I just think the five I mentioned would be the best 1-5 team. With that group, Dee would be an incredible sixth man.
 
#67      
BretMyBeachHouse
FreshlySqueezed said:
Cook led the team in rebounding all 4 years he was in Champaign.

And you don't see as many forwards in no small part because the game has changed significantly. It became a guard dominated game even by the early 2000's.
Click to expand...
I believe all Cook's rebounds were easy so it hardly counts.

Snark aside, he might have been the quietest performer I've seen in an Illini uniform. He made stuff look easy and you almost didn't recognize how good he was.
 
#68      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
ChiefGritty said:
I saw this for another school on social media and thought this might be a topic this board would enjoy arguing about.

The best Illini players of the first quarter of the 21st century (2000-01 to present).

First Team: G Dee Brown, G Deron Williams, G Ayo Dosunmu, F Brian Cook, C Kofi Cockburn
Second Team: G Frank Williams, G Terrence Shannon Jr., G Luther Head, F Malcolm Hill, C James Augustine
Third Team: G Trent Frazier, G Brandon Paul, G Demetri McCamey, F Roger Powell Jr., C Coleman Hawkins
Click to expand...
I'd put Marcus Domask and Myers Leonard over Powell and Hawkins.
 
#69      
BleedOandB
Navy_illini said:
Coach would be tough for me. Self has highest winning percentage followed by Weber and BU. BU percentage should go up. Self was great when he was here and if he stayed would have probably continued his success. Weber was good and has a final four here. inherited a lot of talent but couldn’t recruit to sustain the success. BU rebuilt the program.

I would take BU with the current model of NIL.

Self was 35-13 in conference 78-24 overall 1 BTT and 2 conference titles

Weber was 89-65 in conference 210-165 overall BTT and 2 conference titles 1 BTT

BU is 80-58 in conference 147-89 overall and 1 conference title with one stolen by scUM
Click to expand...
But if the talent is already in place, doesn’t that give Bruce the bump? He already did it with talent. As has Self but elsewhere. Brad has yet to show that he can get there with talent.
 
#70      
OrangeBlue98
BretMyBeachHouse said:
I believe all Cook's rebounds were easy so it hardly counts.

Snark aside, he might have been the quietest performer I've seen in an Illini uniform. He made stuff look easy and you almost didn't recognize how good he was.
Click to expand...
Brian Cook was a player 20+ years ahead of his time at Illinois. I have zero doubts he would have been great in Underwood’s system. He had a great skill set for what Brad wants in his bigs.
 
#72      
bavanga3
Navy_illini said:
Yes. With those 2 first team all Americans playing together what was the farthest they made it in March? Being an all American is one factor but doesn’t decide who is better. Certain years it is harder to be an all American than other because of the competition

The 04-05 team had Dee and Luther on the second team and Deron on the third team all American. Only reason why one of them that year wasn’t higher is how balanced that team was and Dee was a 2nd team the following year. Deron was the best player on the 05 team.
Augustine was underrated because the guards were that good. Look at his career FG percentage, rebound total, assist, and free throw percentage compared to Kofi. Kofi was really good but struggled when he was doubled and struggled at the line. Few teams could expose that weakness. Other than some phantom fouls in the national championship game Augustine played very well as a center

TSJ legal issues probably affected him only being 3rd team. TSJ as a senior was better than Ayo junior year. However if my team was down and I someone to take over Ayo did that more than any player I remember in college
Click to expand...
1. Ayo and Kofi only had one chance together in the tourney compared to 3 times for the 04-05 guys. So who knows if they stuck together, but it is what it is.

2. I feel like your Kofi vs Augustine comparison is arguing against yourself. You took Augie over Kofi, but you said it yourself. Kofi was constantly doubled because he was THE guy. Augustine was option number 4, so he had way more freedom and less pressure so of course his efficiency would be better. Switch them around. Put Augustine in Kofi's place, do you really think he would come close to the level of production Kofi showed? Highly doubtful. And I love Augustine. I went to his h.s., his Dad was my driver's ed teacher, and still that bias isn't enough for me. I don't think its particularly close.
 
#73      
Illiniguy13
Fly Illini Fly! said:
I know this is a challenge, but Malcolm above Brian Cook is nuts.
Click to expand...
Not saying he’s the better player. Cook is, and I probably misread the whole premise, but that’s my 21st century starting 5 id put against any other combo in today’s modern game. It’s neither here nor there.
 
Last edited:
#75      
illinifan1987
How about we do an all-time deserter team?
Skyy was #1, but Morez is solidly in that position by himself (due to scUM)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back