Illinois 88, Purdue 82 Postgame

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#851      
Bigtex
nit pick - how do your 7 footers not take a single 2 point shot?
 
#853      
RabidDawgClassic
Mr. Roberts said:
Wow. Why bother sending Cluff and TKR to the press. The Purdue press are fawning types, but that would irritate me as a writer. At least Smith had some thought behind his answers, although they were largely meh answers.

TKR has exhibited serious attitude lately. There seems to be some friction in that locker room.
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I’m wondering if it’s a money issue. I have no real reason to suspect this other than his attitude of late. I’m sure TKR is making good scratch, but is someone else making more?
 
#854      
OrangeLife
IlliniFan42 said:
Their comments about Purdue's postgame press conference made me go back and watch that. Less than four minutes. In all of three of our losses, the players talked more than that. They also were not short with the media like Cluff and especially TKR were. All in all, it's a really bad look for Purdue, which is a little surprising given how respectful Painter is.

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I have rewatched the game 3 times (luxury of being old and retired lol). I knew TKR was a thug player based on previous games, but I concentrated on watching him one of those times. He may be allowed to get away with more crap than anyone I have seen in quite a bit. He should have fouled out in the first five minutes. Painter needs to get him in hand or they'll be looking at an early exit in March. Other leagues don't let that thug act go near as much. Their whole team likes to initiate contact on defense and rock back like the offensive player was at fault. Bring back the flopping technical just for Purdue games..
 
#855      
aaeismacgychel
IlliniKat91 said:
I think the other thing you have to consider though is does Smith have as good a game as he did? BAM would have been on him most of the game, and his defense is pretty damn good. Wagler might not have gotten his if BAM was in, but I'm not sure Smith does, either.
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Yeah, this is why I hate when people bring up the coulda, woulda, shoulda arguments regarding key players being out. It makes for a completely different game entirely. Yeah, if you have one of your best players available your gameplay is going to be different. Where people are going to be on the court, the sets you run, how you go about defending will all be different.

So to say something like, if Boswell were playing, Keaton wouldn't go for 46, ok, maybe. Maybe he goes for 36, or maybe he goes for 56. Or maybe he goes for 25 with 10 assists and Kylan goes for 20. It's just a nonsense argument, because yeah of course if a whole new major dependent variable was added to the equation, the equation would change.

But for a Purdue beat guy to resolutely say, if Kylan was playing, Purdue would've won by double digits? That's just sour grapes and delusion to the point where I hope Illinois and Purdue meet again in the tourney and Boz drops a 50 spot on them while holding Smith to 10 and 5 and Keaton pours in another 40 to blow them out of the gym. It's one thing to make a stupid argument but to have the gall to take that stupid argument and then twist in a way that can be used to demean an injured player. I have no words for that other than I hope that player embarrasses that team.
 
#856      
Piotyr
Another fun stat that caused me to chuckle:

Houston freshman Kingston Flemings scored 42 points at Texas Tech, which set the record for most points by a freshman in a road game against an AP top 25 opponent.

He held that record for under an hour.
 
#859      
altgeld88
How many of us on Tuesday said to ourselves: "Yeah, we've lost BAM for at least a month. Drag, but whatever. The guys will work out the bugs against the Terps, and then we'll win at Mackey on Saturday by 2-3 possessions after trailing by 11."

I'm sitting here Monday morning and it still hasn't fully sunk in. As @ChiefGritty noted, what we saw Saturday afternoon was beyond special, and this is the Gilded Age. It was an historic performance by KW, an instant classic, and an inflection point showing us how formidable this team can be in March.

Cherish this time, this team, every single possession. On Saturday before tip-off we splashed on MSU tickets in EL Feb. 7. Don't care if there's wrath-of-God lake effect snow in PA, OH and MI. We'll get there somehow and cheer ourselves hoarse for the Beloved. We shall not be denied.
 
#860      
CoalCity
Just watching Sleepers long recap and they're discussing what a stupid idiotic take this was right now LOL
 
#861      
Battle89
pruman91 said:
TKR is a punk through and through with a lengthy history of borderline dirty play , IMHO.......He showed his poor character nature throughout this presser........

mature players give credit to opponents great 46 point games.....he looked like he wanted to have a temper tantrum....

poor wittle baby TKR..........
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Agree 100% Pru, except for the 'borderline'. Does not need to be egregiously dirty to be dirty, he was hitting and shoving all game, worst was the hard bump in the back on KW which was called a travel on Keaton.

It was also very annoying that Smith gets free use of hands to brush off defenders but Mirk does not. Only difference maybe is that BS seems to more stiff arm with it fully extended, while Mirk has a bent elbow. Maybe that's material, I guess (on top of the usual senior vs freshman rules on foul-calling).
 
#862      
Battle89
Mr. Roberts said:
Wow. Why bother sending Cluff and TKR to the press. The Purdue press are fawning types, but that would irritate me as a writer. At least Smith had some thought behind his answers, although they were largely meh answers.

TKR has exhibited serious attitude lately. There seems to be some friction in that locker room.
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#863      
Piotyr
Great analysis from CJ Moore in The Athletic ($): https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/69...sketball-top-25-arizona-byu-illinois-houston/

TLDR: Wagler dominated everyone who guarded him. At the start it was all Oscar Cluff, who was torched for the first 8, then they started switching others on to him, and he kept dominating (even against CJ Cox, who was always the primary defender). Then when the game was close late, Purdue switched to hedging with a double, and Keaton calmly ran the offense to the open mismatch, who was different each time down the floor, and they each hit 3s to win the game for the Illini.

Here's the bit about Illinois' last 5 possessions of the game:

CJ Moore said:
Instead of switching 1-5 ball screens, as the Boilermakers did early, they decided to start hedging late in the game, and the Illini tied the game when Wagler recognized the coverage and set up Tomislav Ivisic for a wide-open 3:

Next possession, same play. But this time, Smith switched onto Ivisic so that Purdue would be able to switch a ball screen and keep a guard on Wagler. Wagler smartly waved off Ivisic and called for Andrej Stojakovic to set the screen because Cluff was now guarding him. Smith sniffed that out and switched again — brilliant awareness by him — but David Mirkovic came up from the corner to set a ball screen and get Wagler the matchup against Trey Kaufman-Renn.

When Wagler went to attack, Cox was there to stop him, and Wagler picked up the ball with four seconds on the shot clock. Most would force up a shot in that situation. Wagler found the open man:

Next possession, same plan for Purdue, so Illinois ran the same action, but put Smith’s man in the corner and instead involved Purdue freshman Omer Mayer in the action. Jake Davis, who Cluff switched onto, tried to get Wagler the desired switch by going to set the screen. Mayer was indecisive, not sure if he should stay or switch, which opened up Davis, who also made the unselfish play by delivering a pass to the corner when David Mirkovic’s defender took him. Another open 3:

Next possession, Ivisic had seen this pre-switch twice now, so he waved Mirkovic to the corner to ensure Cluff remained his defender and went to set another high ball screen.

Hedge, pass, 3:

After a timeout, Underwood called for the high ball screen one final time, and Cluff initially switched, but then saw Cox wasn’t switching, so he turned his hips and started to head back to Ivisic. With that decision, it was almost like Cluff became Wagler’s screener, and the freshman saw an angle to attack. He got to his spot and delivered the dagger:

This is why Wagler is an efficient monster. He now has a 140.3 offensive rating, the highest in college basketball among players using at least 20 percent of their team’s possessions. Ken Pomeroy has been tracking offensive ratings since 2003-04, and the highest ever in that usage category was Colgate’s Jack Ferguson at 135.3 in 2021. Wagler is currently in a club all by himself.
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#865      
mysterio2525
Piotyr said:
Another fun stat that caused me to chuckle:

Houston freshman Kingston Flemings scored 42 points at Texas Tech, which set the record for most points by a freshman in a road game against an AP top 25 opponent.

He held that record for under an hour.
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Jeremy fears had 17 points and 17 assists and might not even be in the top 10 performances Saturday. it is barely a footnote. 17 assists! insane!
 
#868      
I-L-L 1318
lstewart53x3 said:
Afraid of a mismatch. A big wouldn’t be able to effectively put pressure on the ball, so they would have had to use a guard. Which means a big would’ve had to cover one of our guards.
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Could have blitzed it or ran a soft press, and heck, Mirk was essentially a guard for us that game. Just shocked at the lack of adjustments from Painter. He is a great coach, but we are a matchup nightmare. They just bet on us not having sustained success behind the arc, and it worked in our favor.
 
#869      
Rebounding Dog
lstewart53x3 said:
Afraid of a mismatch. A big wouldn’t be able to effectively put pressure on the ball, so they would have had to use a guard. Which means a big would’ve had to cover one of our guards.
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Beat me to it! Mirk at 6-9 who has good handles can pass over the top if a guard is pressuring....Cluff and TKR are not going over half court or they get dribbled around with easy in the paint buckets. It was btw a nice adjustment...Cox was glued to Keaton and hopping to get a hand in there to get a loose ball.
 
#870      
Chuck Nuggets
Keaton Wagler over the last 12 games (9 Big 10 teams, Tennessee, Mizzou, and Southern):

20.0 points
4.8 rebounds
5.3 assists
40-85 (.470) from 3

11-1 (3 point loss to undefeated Nebraska).

I'll go on record and say this is the best 12 game stretch I've ever seen from an Illinois player, including TSJ's incredible run to finish the 2023-24 season.
 
#871      
Rebounding Dog
constant lurker said:
Personally, I had no problems with his aggressiveness there. Smith was hot, he was the only thing keeping Purdue in the game, chances were pretty good he makes that. The foul was hard enough that the shot was not going in. It broke up his rhythm and, ultimately, he missed 1 free throw. I'll take 2 instead of 3 anytime in that situation. Not to mention it gave some of the guys a bit of a breather. I would much rather have my defender more aggressive in that situation, given the heater Smith was on.
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Against TT he got a hand on a 3 point shot and recovered the ball to close the game out! We all loved that! I don't mind going for a block.
 
#872      
IlliniWu
Chuck Nuggets said:
Keaton Wagler over the last 12 games (9 Big 10 teams, Tennessee, Mizzou, and Southern):

20.0 points
4.8 rebounds
5.3 assists
40-85 (.470) from 3

11-1 (3 point loss to undefeated Nebraska).

I'll go on record and say this is the best 12 game stretch I've ever seen from an Illinois player, including TSJ's incredible run to finish the 2023-24 season.
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It's certainly in there. Still think we were robbed because I felt like Shannon was nearing that before he got suspended. I still think he would've been NPOY. He was simply unstoppable.

Those games he was out and the year the tournament was canceled are two of my biggest what ifs. Ayo and Co. would've been ready, but I really wanted to see Feliz in the tournament. They would've went far IMO with a chance to cut the nets down.
 
#873      
2qtslow
I-L-L 1318 said:
Could have blitzed it or ran a soft press, and heck, Mirk was essentially a guard for us that game. Just shocked at the lack of adjustments from Painter. He is a great coach, but we are a matchup nightmare. They just bet on us not having sustained success behind the arc, and it worked in our favor.
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Purdue moved away from their regular defense to start the game. Their idea was to shut down everyone but Wagler and make the freshman beat them. One could say it worked. Nobody but Wagler did much of anything in the first half, and Purdue led by eleven at one point. I think they led by four at the break.

It wasn't until the second half that they reverted to their "normal" defense. That adjustment led them to lose the second half by ten.
 
#874      
Chukwuwumba
Have to chime in.

Amazing game. Wagler insane. Might be best win of any team this year. True road game. 2nd overall might be Nebraska at Illinois. Or vice versa by end of year. But I don’t know all the games.

Finally seeing the difference between actions and sets. Actions work well with high bball IQ players, can adjust to the defense. All these breakdown videos highlighting Purdue changing defensive approach and Illini able to adjust. Fun to watch too-other games do not look like Illini games.
Not sure what else Purdue could have done defensively. That’s good!

Rebounding was very good and got better as the game went on. Interestingly I thought longer missed shots were staying close to basket earlier in game , and then went longer as expected afterwards- pro Illinois.

Would have tried hedging/helping on smith later in 2nd half as long as Meyer was not the screener. Pass the ball or force smith into 2pt shots. Even if rotation, just try to prevent 3s.

Glad TKR didn’t hurt anybody. Seemed out of his mind. Not sure what coaching staff said to him, but do the opposite next game. Good to smith come back in the game. Don’t want to see any injuries.
 
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