Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#305      
AirTran
OrangeBlue98 said:
Still too soon.
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“The options here are simple: Keep Davis with significant changes to the staff and program or orchestrate some type of wholesale change to the coaching staff and bring in a whole new regime.” Self has already made his statement. Unless Kansas makes the final 4 he's returning.

But the interesting point for me is something that has already been articulated on this board.

There are no perennial elites in NCAA basketball any longer (Indiana, UCLA, Kentucky are the most recent examples) the NIL and the influx of non - US players have become the great equalizers.

If Hubert moves on the question is whether UNC has the financial strength for $35mm + of buyouts to get a TJ Otzerberger, Nate Oats or Mark Byington. Keep in mind they are well over $60mm deep into the "Bellicheck experiment" with no bowl appearance last year (4-8) and season ticket sales at a halt. If one of those 3 move, then there is a domino effect.

If its Billy Donovan - that solves alot of problems.
 
#306      
illini510
Illinicpa14 said:
John Blackwell was a 3-star rated in the 200s with no other P4 offers

Nick Boyd was a 13 ppg scorer at SDSU and before that played at FAU

Even AJ Storr was a fringe top 100 guy.

Those are similar to what they’ve always gotten…They are not elevating the caliber of guys being brought in. They’ve brought in nice pieces for their system; like most years.

The only time they’ve truly had the “ceiling” type talent is when they developed kaminsky (also overlooked guy) in to a NPOY and paired him with Dekker, a top 20 guy…and that was a decade ago under Bo. Just like Illinois post 2005, they were unable to translate those 2 seasons into a higher level of consistent high-end talent.

I don’t think Gard should be let go either, but I’d say at this point there’s nothing to suggest they have another level to get to as a program without doing things different. They get solid guys, coach them up, and most years that translates to a top 25 team without real upside. They may get lucky a year where the bracket opens up or they hit a bunch of shots.
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I forgot about John Tonje as well as he was a Colorado St transfer. Boyd was the third guard at FAU but he certainly has grown and developed since then. Also, it's not like SDSU is known for their offense up until this season so I wouldn't be concerned with what he scored there last year.

Blackwell was overlooked kind of like Keaton Wagler. I'd love to have a Blackwell type on the Illini but he has been developed properly which speaks well to Gard and his staff.

I think their bigs compare to Michigan St's bigs and they certainly had the guard play. They have good 3 pt specialists as well. They beat Michigan and Illinois on the road so I think they certainly had many of the key ingredients to make a run but I also think they would have lost to Arkansas in the 2nd round b/c Arkansas is on another level. Wisconsin got spoiled with that successful couple year run in the mid 2010s
 
#307      
illini510
AirTran said:
“The options here are simple: Keep Davis with significant changes to the staff and program or orchestrate some type of wholesale change to the coaching staff and bring in a whole new regime.” Self has already made his statement. Unless Kansas makes the final 4 he's returning.

But the interesting point for me is something that has already been articulated on this board.

There are no perennial elites in NCAA basketball any longer (Indiana, UCLA, Kentucky are the most recent examples) the NIL and the influx of non - US players have become the great equalizers.

If Hubert moves on the question is whether UNC has the financial strength for $35mm + of buyouts to get a TJ Otzerberger, Nate Oats or Mark Byington. Keep in mind they are well over $60mm deep into the "Bellicheck experiment" with no bowl appearance last year (4-8) and season ticket sales at a halt. If one of those 3 move, then there is a domino effect.

If its Billy Donovan - that solves alot of problems.
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Duke is probably the most perennial elite program out there today. They have been unaffected during the NIL and transfer portal era and the seamless change from Coach K to Scheyer confirms that they'll be an elite program for probably the next 25-30 yrs. I'd also put UCONN in that category right now with the sustained success that they've had since the late 90s in each decade. Maybe not yearly but they've had national championship teams in each decade since the 90s
 
#308      
AnnaMay
illini510 said:
Duke is probably the most perennial elite program out there today. They have been unaffected during the NIL and transfer portal era and the seamless change from Coach K to Scheyer confirms that they'll be an elite program for probably the next 25-30 yrs. I'd also put UCONN in that category right now with the sustained success that they've had since the late 90s in each decade. Maybe not yearly but they've had national championship teams in each decade since the 90s
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Unaffected by NIL because they are dropping massive bags of cash now.
 
#310      
blackdog
illini510 said:
I forgot about John Tonje as well as he was a Colorado St transfer. Boyd was the third guard at FAU but he certainly has grown and developed since then. Also, it's not like SDSU is known for their offense up until this season so I wouldn't be concerned with what he scored there last year.

Blackwell was overlooked kind of like Keaton Wagler. I'd love to have a Blackwell type on the Illini but he has been developed properly which speaks well to Gard and his staff.

I think their bigs compare to Michigan St's bigs and they certainly had the guard play. They have good 3 pt specialists as well. They beat Michigan and Illinois on the road so I think they certainly had many of the key ingredients to make a run but I also think they would have lost to Arkansas in the 2nd round b/c Arkansas is on another level. Wisconsin got spoiled with that successful couple year run in the mid 2010s
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Don't forgot to add first round pick, consensus all American, and B1G POY Johnny Davis to that list of guys who developed pretty well at Wisconsin.
 
#311      
PepeSilvia
AirTran said:
There are no perennial elites in NCAA basketball any longer (Indiana, UCLA, Kentucky are the most recent examples) the NIL and the influx of non - US players have become the great equalizers.
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Talent is spreading out a bit among the power 5 teams and blue bloods like Kentucky don't have the absurd talent advantage they have had in the past when they had like 9 NBA players on their roster and bench players that were getting picked in the lottery.

However, that are still perennial elite teams it just comes down to having the right coach with the resources. Duke has stayed elite with Scheyer, UConn is definitely elite with Hurley, Houston with Sampson, Zona with Lloyd, Alabama with Oats, etc.

Then you have guys like Golden and May who don't have a super long track record but are definitely on pace to be there.

UNC is down because Hubert is an idiot. Indiana has been down for 15+ years at this point and all the had to do was hire May. Kentucky settled for a legacy hire in Pope.

Coaches have always been difference makers but you used to be able to get a guy like Calipari who was simply so good at recruiting that he would overwhelm you with talent and that type of talent disparity doesn't exist anymore.
 
#315      
STLini25
Talent is spreading out a bit among the power 5 teams and blue bloods like Kentucky don't have the absurd talent advantage they have had in the past when they had like 9 NBA players on their roster and bench players that were getting picked in the lottery.

However, that are still perennial elite teams it just comes down to having the right coach with the resources. Duke has stayed elite with Scheyer, UConn is definitely elite with Hurley, Houston with Sampson, Zona with Lloyd, Alabama with Oats, etc.

Then you have guys like Golden and May who don't have a super long track record but are definitely on pace to be there.

UNC is down because Hubert is an idiot. Indiana has been down for 15+ years at this point and all the had to do was hire May. Kentucky settled for a legacy hire in Pope.

Coaches have always been difference makers but you used to be able to get a guy like Calipari who was simply so good at recruiting that he would overwhelm you with talent and that type of talent disparity doesn't exist anymore.
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I agree with your point but the top 5 team talent didn’t go down. The 6-30 talent went up (from mid major talent transferring to top 30 teams)
 
#316      
OrangeBlue98
Hodgson to Providence. Feels like he could have done better for his next move.
 
#317      
Chuck Nuggets
I hope Providence at least reached out to Phil Martelli Jr. If Rutgers or Penn State move on, he'd be a guy I call.

(Just checked Pikiell's buyout. That guy ain't going anywhere. Wow.)
 
#318      
Illinicpa14
Chuck Nuggets said:
I hope Providence at least reached out to Phil Martelli Jr. If Rutgers or Penn State move on, he'd be a guy I call.

(Just checked Pikiell's buyout. That guy ain't going anywhere. Wow.)
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The issue for a school like Penn State is the donors just spent like $100MM fixing the football program.

One benefit we should see in both football and basketball is that since we are not paying for buyouts and coach changes, all the money should be going to players and facilities at the donor level.

It’s why a school like Wisconsin is never gone move on from Gard when they have set resources and likely have to spend big to fix a failing football program.
 
#320      
Ryllini
OrangeBlue98 said:
Hodgson to Providence. Feels like he could have done better for his next move.
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I think Providence has a chance to be a really good job. It’s a better job than Syracuse imo. That place can get rockin’ too. There are worse places to land.
 
#322      
Bucktown
OrangeBlue98 said:
www.sportingnews.com

Steve Pikiell buyout, contract details as Rutgers Scarlet Knights head coach | Sporting News Canada

There needs to be changes at the Big Ten school.
www.sportingnews.com www.sportingnews.com

Hope Pikiell compensates his agent well. Holy smokes.
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He certainly squandered the Ace Bailey/Dylan Harper recruiting by not building a complementary roster around them. The fan base thought they were going to climb the mountain, but ended up as a flash in the pan. When they left, the cupboard was bare. He's a good coach if he finds players like they had in the early 2020's, they can at least be a mid-tier Big Ten program that gets to the tournament most years.
 
#324      
ChiefGritty
Bucktown said:
He certainly squandered the Ace Bailey/Dylan Harper recruiting by not building a complementary roster around them. The fan base thought they were going to climb the mountain, but ended up as a flash in the pan. When they left, the cupboard was bare. He's a good coach if he finds players like they had in the early 2020's, they can at least be a mid-tier Big Ten program that gets to the tournament most years.
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I've been a fan of his from the moment he got there. He'll bounce back.

Indy Illini Fan said:
Has nothing to do with resources …

There are some Carolina people who don’t have a problem with Golden off court issues or Oats player conduct issues …

But there’s also quite a few that do … The old money wants someone squeaky clean …

Byington can also really coach … I’m not saying he’s in that elite upper tier right now …

But if he has UNC resources ? I think he’d win … A LOT …
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I'd have thought that was a perfect landing place for Oats (his blazer collection in Carolina colors would be elite), but something about Byington and UNC does kinda feel like a fit, he's got that good old boy vibe about him.
 
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