Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#476      
NarrowJ
AirTran said:
All true. Notre Dame, UNC, Memphis, Kansas State, Georgia Tech, Nabraska all hired new coaches in 2000. From what was available - the schools that tried to hire him were Missouri, Nebraska, Minnesota, Georgia Tech and Illinois.
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Did North Carolina prioritize Bill Self over Matt Doherty or did we get kinda lucky there?
 
#477      
ChiefGritty
NarrowJ said:
Did North Carolina prioritize Bill Self over Matt Doherty or did we get kinda lucky there?
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North Carolina was unwilling to consider anyone from outside the Carolina Family in that search.

Calipari, then in the NBA, wanted the job and they didn't even interview him.

Teams that have no memory of being bad sometimes run the absolute worst searches.
 
#478      
NarrowJ
Heisenbobble said:
This was the dumpster fire that Kruger had to deal with when he took the Florida job:

Norm Sloan Florida Scandal

"(Norm) Sloan had already planned to retire at the end of the 1989–90 season. However, he was forced to retire on October 31, 1989, just days before the start of the season, in the wake of an NCAA investigation into the Gators program.[15][16][1][17]

In September 1990, the NCAA imposed two years' probation on the Gators for violations dating back to 1985 under Sloan. The Gators' 1987 and 1988 NCAA Tournament appearances were erased from the record books due to Maxwell being retroactively declared ineligible; Maxwell had admitted to taking money from agents without Sloan's knowledge. Sloan had also purchased a plane ticket to Boston for Maxwell in the summer of 1987 so that Maxwell could serve as a counselor at a basketball camp. Two years earlier, one of Sloan's assistants had allowed a recruit's mother to use the return leg of the recruit's airline ticket to return home after the recruit enrolled in summer school. In the NCAA's view, this amounted to the university paying for the travel expenses of recruits and players. It also harshly criticized Sloan, finding that he had engaged in unethical conduct by paying Maxwell's airfare. The basketball program lost two scholarships in 1991-92 and one scholarship in 1992-93 because of the infractions. As severe as these penalties were, the NCAA said it would have imposed even harsher penalties, such as a ban from postseason play and live television in 1990–91, had Sloan not been forced out. Sloan was personally penalized with a five-year show-cause penalty, which had the effect of blackballing him from the collegiate coaching ranks until 1995 at the earliest."

He did one helluva good job to get that program on solid footing and taking them to a Final Four. And it was a major coup for Illinois to get him back then. Make no mistake, he was considered a great hire and an incredible steal from another power conference team.
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Do you remember all the backlash because so many thought Jimmy Collins should have gotten the job? Hiring a dude who made tourney 2x in 6 years isn't a "splash hire", sorry.
 
#479      
Heisenbobble
Do you remember all the backlash because so many thought Jimmy Collins should have gotten the job? Hiring a dude who made tourney 2x in 6 years isn't a "splash hire", sorry.
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Sure, the local bumpkins wanted Jimmy to get the job. He didn't deserve it, but University administration helped him land the UIC gig, anyway. Kruger was considered a home-run hire nationally at the time whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You're wrong on this one. It's okay.
 
#480      
ChiefGritty
NarrowJ said:
Do you remember all the backlash because so many thought Jimmy Collins should have gotten the job? Hiring a dude who made tourney 2x in 6 years isn't a "splash hire", sorry.
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You're ignoring his success at K-State here too.

But the Collins thing is a good call-out, there was a LOT to that situation. Lou Henson was essentially fired by Ron Guenther.
 
#481      
NarrowJ
ChiefGritty said:
You're ignoring his success at K-State here too.

But the Collins thing is a good call-out, there was a LOT to that situation. Lou Henson was essentially fired by Ron Guenther.
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The K-State stretch doesn't rise him to the level of "splash hire" imo (on the same level as getting a Nate Oats or Todd Golden)

Lon was a very good coach. Not a 'superstar' hire at the time, though.

EDIT: Anyway, we're going back 30 years here... unsure when things cease to be relevant/equivalent, tbh
 
#482      
mhuml32
ChiefGritty said:
I don't have the WBB expertise to opine, but just looking at the numbers it looks like Matt Bollant was a lot more successful at Green Bay than she was at Dayton?

It's also hard to make comparisons because for reasons I've never understood our WBB job has been an absolute dumpster fire.
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This is missing the context of the programs. Bollant took over a program that had won their conference title 10 years in a row and they hadn't had a losing season since 1977. Dayton basketball has been average to below average in their history and had finished 8th in the A-10 the year before she took over, and she had similar success as Bollant at UWGB. Dayton has gone up a level under the previous coach (Jabir) but was already trending backwards when they hired Green.
 
#483      
Big Jack
This was the dumpster fire that Kruger had to deal with when he took the Florida job:

Norm Sloan Florida Scandal

"(Norm) Sloan had already planned to retire at the end of the 1989–90 season. However, he was forced to retire on October 31, 1989, just days before the start of the season, in the wake of an NCAA investigation into the Gators program.[15][16][1][17]

In September 1990, the NCAA imposed two years' probation on the Gators for violations dating back to 1985 under Sloan. The Gators' 1987 and 1988 NCAA Tournament appearances were erased from the record books due to Maxwell being retroactively declared ineligible; Maxwell had admitted to taking money from agents without Sloan's knowledge. Sloan had also purchased a plane ticket to Boston for Maxwell in the summer of 1987 so that Maxwell could serve as a counselor at a basketball camp. Two years earlier, one of Sloan's assistants had allowed a recruit's mother to use the return leg of the recruit's airline ticket to return home after the recruit enrolled in summer school. In the NCAA's view, this amounted to the university paying for the travel expenses of recruits and players. It also harshly criticized Sloan, finding that he had engaged in unethical conduct by paying Maxwell's airfare. The basketball program lost two scholarships in 1991-92 and one scholarship in 1992-93 because of the infractions. As severe as these penalties were, the NCAA said it would have imposed even harsher penalties, such as a ban from postseason play and live television in 1990–91, had Sloan not been forced out. Sloan was personally penalized with a five-year show-cause penalty, which had the effect of blackballing him from the collegiate coaching ranks until 1995 at the earliest."

He did one helluva good job to get that program on solid footing and taking them to a Final Four. And it was a major coup for Illinois to get him back then. Make no mistake, he was considered a great hire and an incredible steal from another power conference team.
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And scumbags Pearl and Samson get nothing makes sense. Lol
 
#484      
AirTran
ChiefGritty said:
North Carolina was unwilling to consider anyone from outside the Carolina Family in that search.

Calipari, then in the NBA, wanted the job and they didn't even interview him.

Teams that have no memory of being bad sometimes run the absolute worst searches.
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According the UNC alums I spoke to, they wanted Roy Williams and couldn't get him. Doherty was an assisstant for Williams for 7 years at Kansas and WIlliams recommended Doherty in 2000. UNC approached Larry Brown, George Karl and Eddie Fogler (all UNC alums) as well as Williams and they all turned UNC down.
 
#485      
Battle89
Heisenbobble said:
Lon Kruger made a Final Four with Florida in 1994, two years before taking the Illinois job. Comparing that to Steve Forbes is absurd. C'mon now.
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Yup. "Objectively bad"

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#488      
NarrowJ
Battle89 said:
Apologies, didn't intend to pile on, now seeing others had already said similar. But still disagree with the original point.
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I disagreed with my original point too 😁 I walked it back a bit, but still didn’t see that as a huge big name splash hire
 
#489      
AirTran
You're ignoring his success at K-State here too.

But the Collins thing is a good call-out, there was a LOT to that situation. Lou Henson was essentially fired by Ron Guenther.
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My recollection is slightly different. Henson retired (and Guenther ultimately agreed) because Illini boosters wanted Henson out and the level of recruits Henson could attract was declining.

Both Henson and Guenther called is a "natural evolution" but I think we both know both people saw the writing on the wall.
 
#491      
ChiefGritty
AirTran said:
According the UNC alums I spoke to, they wanted Roy Williams and couldn't get him. Doherty was an assisstant for Williams for 7 years at Kansas and WIlliams recommended Doherty in 2000. UNC approached Larry Brown, George Karl and Eddie Fogler (all UNC alums) as well as Williams and they all turned UNC down.
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Correct, an example of the exact same saga (Will Roy Leave Kansas To Go Home??) having the opposite outcome just three years later.

These things are always more uncertain and contingent than they look in retrospect.
 
#494      
illiniswish09
Growing momentum that Billy D steps away from Bulls after this season… Would have to think Bulls kick the tires on Scheyer?
 
#496      
ChiefGritty
illiniswish09 said:
Growing momentum that Billy D steps away from Bulls after this season… Would have to think Bulls kick the tires on Scheyer?
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I hate Scheyer and I still would feel bad for him if he were stupid enough to coach the pathetic, comprehensively hopeless, zero chance whatsoever they will ever compete for anything meaningful under current management Bulls. The dead end job to end all dead end jobs, the single least likely team in the NBA to win a title in the next decade, salted earth barren wasteland.

Donovan had his fun in the college game and was happy to just take a no-expectations highly paid meaningless job (and even he's quitting!), but Scheyer has a future.

Now, if Scheyer wants an NBA job he can get a better one than the Bulls, so there's always a chance he leaves Duke, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
#497      
MikeTisdale
NarrowJ said:
The K-State stretch doesn't rise him to the level of "splash hire" imo (on the same level as getting a Nate Oats or Todd Golden)

Lon was a very good coach. Not a 'superstar' hire at the time, though.

EDIT: Anyway, we're going back 30 years here... unsure when things cease to be relevant/equivalent, tbh
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Pretty sure relevancy in coaching searches should only be like... the last 5 years.

NIL changed the game. And the "blue bloods" who are not in the BIG or SEC are going to find it increasingly harder to keep up since everyone can pay, all of those schools have huge influxes of cash to build better facilities, and national exposure now is just a conference's TV deal.

If Self is retiring at Kansas, I think they truly might be on the brink of becoming just another also ran blue blood (like Indiana). I would say the same about Duke, but they're really a different kind of school and Scheyer probably sticks for a long haul.
 
#498      
illiniswish09
ChiefGritty said:
I hate Scheyer and I still would feel bad for him if he were stupid enough to coach the pathetic, comprehensively hopeless, zero chance whatsoever they will ever compete for anything meaningful under current management Bulls. The dead end job to end all dead end jobs, the single least likely team in the NBA to win a title in the next decade, salted earth barren wasteland.

Donovan had his fun in the college game and was happy to just take a no-expectations highly paid meaningless job (and even he's quitting!), but Scheyer has a future.

Now, if Scheyer wants an NBA job he can get a better one than the Bulls, so there's always a chance he leaves Duke, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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Pretty much my thoughts as well hahahah
 
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