Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[the juiceman cometh]

I think the difference is we usually have guards capable of providing a spark off the bench:

2021 - Ayo, Curbelo, Miller, Trent
2022 - Curbelo, Trent, Plummer
2023 - Skyy, Harris, Epps
2024 - DGL, Harmon
(just listing all the guards - somebody played off the bench and provided a spark on each team)

Past year it was no one. And coming year it’ll likely be no one as well.

The Wisconsin game was brutal. Keaton the only ball handler; only played 6 guys. This year will be the same thing in a similar scenario.

It’s just not ideal to have guard depth as a weakness for two seasons in a row. Especially when it’s easily avoidable.

So now we're at the point where we are griping about the season that just ended with us getting to a Final Four?

Your main bone to pick has been that we do not have reliable, veteran guards to rely on and would have to rely on unproven freshmen like Morillo and Brown to provide a spark of the bench, right?

In 2024, DGL was a freshman. He also wasn't very good. He played 7 mpg, shot 34% from the field and 22% from 3. Not much spark there.

In 2023, Skyy, Harris, and Epps were all freshmen.

In 2022, Curbelo had a notoriously disappointing sophomore seasons.

In 2021, Curbelo and Miller were freshmen (and Miller started).

So it was ok to rely on Freshmen in prior years, but not ok now?

Plus a lot of the people you listed were starters, which I get that you're just trying to show the "depth" but kinda misleading with all this talk of a "bench spark." If you take all the freshmen out, and all the starters out, here is what your list looks like:

2024: Harmon
2022: Curbelo

That's it. That's the whole list.

 

[GForce]

I like this kid…

https://twitter.com/x/status/2046231485120700540

So we're getting Kon Kneuppel 2.0. I'll take it! ... btw, I think he's going to be the best of our freshman class at the end of the day.

 

[Det_Illini_fan]

So now we're at the point where we are griping about the season that just ended with us getting to a Final Four?

FWIW, criticism does not equate disapproval. Any year’s outcome, even one that is ends with a big trophy, can receive some critiques, as nothing is perfect. And often the critiques are just intended for straightening out weaknesses, and incrementally getting better. Something Brad & Co. have been doing a great job of. Not having criticisms of last year I think would actually be irresponsible. That’s how we get better, but doesn’t mean it wasn’t profoundly admired.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

 

[wpr]

In fairness, our expectations should be high for this team - Brad himself says that when the goal is not to win a NC is when he's going to retire. When the head coach himself is saying every year should be a NC or bust mentality, you can't blame the fan base for raising their bar as well. This is also a unique time in Illinois' history when coming off the last two Final Fours we knew it would be a step down the following year when Nick declared for the draft and when DWill went pro, there was simply no way we weren't going to take a step back. Now with the portal and money to spend we can reload every year

I don't blame fans for having opinions on how we should go about the reloading - it's part of being a fan. Particularly when the staff executes #theretention perfectly and gets everyone back and we know we have money to spend this year, why can't we be the big fish and get another top portal player in addition to Vaaks and be in that preseason #1 conversation - it's reasonable to want that. So when we hear "the staff thinks we're good with the current roster" and UConn, Duke, Louisville, Florida and others are stacking additional top portal players while we sit back, I think it's human nature to want to improve our team even more

I don't have a problem with fans wanting more. Just understand wanting and getting what you want are not the same.
As far as the staff thinks we are good so shame on them for thinking this is not a fair assessment. What do you want them to say? "We didn't get player X so we are so screwed for the up coming season?" Of course they won't say that. They are looking to add some more pieces later this year. People seem to forget the player has to want to join the team. I mean, who would not to be a part of the famILLy therefore the staff didn't try very hard.
The bar is high. Can't the fans look at the Illinois top 8 or 9 and compare it to the other teams who are "loading up" and see the Illini are in pretty good shape right now? More than likely Blackwell is not coming. What I have seen is the same old THE SKY IS FALLING mentality over someone who will be a back up player. 4 player who were already on the team took a look at that and said, no thank you. Now we expect someone that has not been a part of the team already to come in and fill the same role?
Well make it a mid major. That guy will be grateful for the scraps he is given. Not necessarily. In the past when the staff pulled in player like that the fans lost their minds. How dare they bring in someone who can't play at the Power 5 conference level? I've seen complaints about Ben, Jake, Jakstys and Fagbemi on last years team. Now it's Zens.
My point is no matter who is on the team some will complain unless they win it all. Even then some will complain about the margin of victory.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Yup.

And it’s not totally a 4 million dollar stud scorer like Blackwell. Don’t get me wrong, he would've been FANTASTIC. But that was always the home run shot.

At the moment, it’s not what we absolutely need.

It’s depth at the guard spot.

With Lee's departure, they will almost certainly go find another guy. I just think things are going to be very quiet around here until the portal closes, and possibly until the freshmen are on campus. They don't want anyone else to jump off the boat. That's why we are hearing it will be late summer before we add.

By then, the existing roster is locked up.

I think they would have been okay with Coleman leaving if Blackwell was coming, but it seems he is the only guy in the portal for whom they would have made that trade. I assume a significant amount of the "Blackwell money" just went to secure Mr. Coleman's signature.

With Coleman in the fold, I just don't think this is a very attractive opportunity for a quality, experienced guard.
These older guys want to play, especially the type of guy who would get people around here excited. I don't expect they will go into the season with 3 spots open. (Brad likes to keep one...) If you expecting anything other than a mid-major journeyman or a developmental guy, you're probably going to be disappointed.

 

[ChiefGritty]

We only had two lead guards on the team this past season, and they played on the court a lot together. Both those guys could also play an off-ball/wing role, so KB essentially was the backup "PG" even though he started at "SG" (later in the season - earlier in the season those roles were reversed).

This is why I am not a fan of using the traditional PG, SG, SF etc. designations in modern basketball, especially for a team like ours that doesn't run it's offense based on those traditional roles. Using designations like lead guards, wings, and bigs is a lot more useful (though also doesn't tell the full picture). Our normal lineup typically features a lead guard, two wings, and two bigs, but we have multiple people who can play multiple roles. Our small ball lineup basically swaps out a big for one of our longer wings (BH this past season, some speculation that Morillo would play a similar role this upcoming season). I expect that Coleman will start as a wing, but also spell Vaaks at times as the lead guard.

Yeah, it's not so much about individual roles as the traits and skills you can put in a five man lineup.

Last year's team had trouble with compact floor general true PG types. Fears, Braeden Smith, Nick Boyd, Donovan Dent, etc. At both ends, those guys could get where they wanted on offense and could get underneath our ballhandlers and gum us up at the other end.

That's going to get worse next year, not better. We got creative to work around that disadvantage last year, more creativity will be needed.

There are so many players who have this missing skillset, that's what's weird and a bit frustrating. We've got all these size/skill unicorns that are impossible to find, but there are tons of pugnacious little ballhandlers out there.

Let's go get one!

 

[the juiceman cometh]

His career assist to turnover is 0.8

The tools are there… but he’s probably got to improve as a decision maker.

In terms of getting to the basket … there’s very few guys more effective in that department (if any). So using the PnR for a downhill drive would obviously make sense.

And that's exactly what I'm saying he has to work on. It might be impossible. But he's also never actually tried to do it. The benefit of year 2 with the same program is more time to work on stuff like this, and to settle into a system. We saw what that additional time did for BH and Jake.

 

[OB positive]

We only had two lead guards on the team this past season, and they played on the court a lot together. Both those guys could also play an off-ball/wing role, so KB essentially was the backup "PG" even though he started at "SG" (later in the season - earlier in the season those roles were reversed).

This is why I am not a fan of using the traditional PG, SG, SF etc. designations in modern basketball, especially for a team like ours that doesn't run it's offense based on those traditional roles. Using designations like lead guards, wings, and bigs is a lot more useful (though also doesn't tell the full picture). Our normal lineup typically features a lead guard, two wings, and two bigs, but we have multiple people who can play multiple roles. Our small ball lineup basically swaps out a big for one of our longer wings (BH this past season, some speculation that Morillo would play a similar role this upcoming season). I expect that Coleman will start as a wing, but also spell Vaaks at times as the lead guard.

As long as we have someone who can break down the defense and can get by their defenders to create something in those situations when our offense gets stagnant. It was nice to have a primary ballhandler this year that didn't get rattled when pressured hard even when double teamed

 

[wpr]

Feel like what people would like to see is a lead guard off the bench. That isn’t that crazy a request.

Sure there’s some unrealistic expectations that if we don’t pursue and get Christian Anderson we ought to be shamed.

However, just getting a guard who’d play the Harmon role of 15-20 minutes of the bench would satisfy most people (including me). There’s really no reason that role shouldn’t be attractive for someone looking to jump from the mid majors.

We need depth. The top-end of the roster is good enough.

Fair enough.
You tell me who.
What mid major PG is out there who is willing to sit on the bench and play 15 minutes a game? If he is good enough to do that he's good enough to start for other teams. If he is good enough to start he is good enough to get double the NIL money elsewhere.

 

[jrichisamazing]

I think our fanbase is awesome and find demands for it to be lobotomized quite strange and unnecessary.


Not to toot my own horn but I think I more or less nailed it calling Vaaks a cross between KJ and Evansville Humrichous. He's just a much bigger and wider human than Wagler despite comparable height/length, he doesn't move in the same way.


I'm struggling to understand why Brandon Lee would leave at the moment he's all of a sudden needed in this way.

There's a missing piece here. Pretty lame to be relentlessly shamed and propagandized for stating the obvious.

Agreed, but I'm even more confused by Ty leaving. With his ability to guard 1-4, plus all of our bigs being able to play on the perimeter, you would think he would find a good amount of minutes.

 

[wncillini]

So we're getting Kon Kneuppel 2.0. I'll take it! ... btw, I think he's going to be the best of our freshman class at the end of the day.

I mean he looks to be a future nba hall of famer. Might want to temper your expectations.

 

[Bigtex]

His career assist to turnover is 0.8

The tools are there… but he’s probably got to improve as a decision maker.

In terms of getting to the basket … there’s very few guys more effective in that department (if any). So using the PnR for a downhill drive would obviously make sense.

agree not a great fit for Andrej as lead guard as his ball handling and decision making is not great. Much prefer him in the ISO matchups.

 

[OB positive]

Now I'm going to say something that's probably a little out there, but I've been thinking about a lot and have kinda convinced myself of:

Andrej Stojakovic, Lead Guard.

OK, hear me out.

Once we settle into the half court, lead guard in our system is all about running the pick and roll. Stoj didn't really do that much this past season, we used him in a lot of ISOs instead. He's great at finding space and getting to the bucket, which is the primary skill in an ISO, but also helpful as a pick and roll initiator. The primary goal of the pick and roll is actually to get the initiator to the basket. This is the most efficient outcome in pick and rolls. I think #2 is typically initiator shooting from perimeter off the dribble, and #3 is pass out for 3. So if Stoj can work on reading defenses and hitting open shooters, I think he could be a third option to play that lead guard role (not taking the ball up the court so much as switching into the lead guard role at the top of the key in the half court).

He also has every incentive to work on this. I think this is the thing that could unlock his potential as an NBA prospect. I don't know, it's probably just me being crazy, but I've convinced myself at this point that there's something there. Maybe one of you can explain to me why I'm completely off base.

I don't think Andrej could handle being the lead gaurd it would result in too many turnovers. He is great in one on one situations but he forces the ball into too much traffic at times and he is not looking to pass it. If he would start dishing the ball out every so often it would help him as well as the rest of the team. That would make him a viable option at lead gaurd imho.

 

[Combo]

My apologies, conflated a video I watched calling him a top 30 talent with top 30 ranking.

Clearly that invalidates the entire post if I say top 60 freshmen.

Ha! The problem with that is we convince ourselves it's true. 90% of our fanbase thinks every guy we get is really better than their ranking. They start saying a top 60 guy is "really" a top 30 guy. They say it so much that pretty soon everyone on here repeats it as if it were the case.

Some guys are going to be better than their ranking (Keaton an extreme example) and some guys worse (eg Petro).

 

[EmeraldCityIllini]

Personally, I think all the we “need a lead guard” conversation is a bit ironic in that we’ve been at our best under Brad when we haven’t really had a true lead guard.

I agree with @illini0440 in that I didn’t really consider Keaton a true point guard either.

Just food for thought

 

[GForce]

I mean he looks to be a future nba hall of famer. Might want to temper your expectations.

Sir, this is a message board. There will be no tempering of expectations around here... Zavier Zens, future hall of famer!

 

[I-L-L 1318]

Personally, I think all the we “need a lead guard” conversation is a bit ironic in that we’ve been at our best under Brad when we haven’t really had a true lead guard.

I agree with @illini0440 in that I didn’t really consider Keaton a true point guard either.

Just food for thought

The board has been clamoring for a pure pg since Trent, and our 2 best years have been when we did NOT have a pg. Though I am sure we would have won a natty had we had Rayj

 

[the juiceman cometh]

Yeah, it's not so much about individual roles as the traits and skills you can put in a five man lineup.

Last year's team had trouble with compact floor general true PG types. Fears, Braeden Smith, Nick Boyd, Donovan Dent, etc. At both ends, those guys could get where they wanted on offense and could get underneath our ballhandlers and gum us up at the other end.

That's going to get worse next year, not better. We got creative to work around that disadvantage last year, more creativity will be needed.

There are so many players who have this missing skillset, that's what's weird and a bit frustrating. We've got all these size/skill unicorns that are impossible to find, but there are tons of pugnacious little ballhandlers out there.

Let's go get one!

In a few games that is what got us in trouble. This is just anecdotal data in service of a position you've staked out for years now, which is that small guards are good (I remember because of how distraught you were about DGL leaving, which struck me as a bit odd based on what he'd actually contributed in his time here).

In other games it was a 6-6 wing who drained 6 threes (Pryce Sandfort), a triplet of bigs who are as opposite as you can get from a compact floor general (Michigan), or a combination of a long wing who can shoot and a physical big (Mullins/Reed - UConn). Against Maryland we struggled against two big guards who combined for 44 points and just 3 assists. If I were to just use those examples, and ignore counter examples, I could stake out the opposite position that we struggled with size and length last season so we need to get bigger. This is why you don't rely exclusively on anecdotal evidence.

 

[Tevo]

Scholarship vs. Walk-on isn't too much of a thing to track anymore. Every team has 15 roster spots to fill regardless of that distinction.

By my count our roster sits at 12.
FR (4):
Morillo, Brown, Coleman, Davis
SO (4):
Jakstys, Mirkovic, Fagbemi, Vaaks
SR (4):
T. Ivisic, Z. Ivisic, Davis, Stojakovic

3 open roster spots as we sit today.

We have ZERO Juniors on the roster? Is everyone seeing this? Who is going to stop opposing Junior year players?! Do we think some slow sophomore will be able to, or some old Senior? I don't think so. If this staff doesn't see this gaping whole in our roster and act NOW to fill it, it will be a case of gross mishandling and a fireable offense. Don't get me wrong, I love our team and coaches and think they are all awesome, but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity that we haven't had since last season, and we HAVE to take advantage. Spend the money. Get a damn Junior on the roster!

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

Is the portal entry closed right now, or does it shut down after 11:59 tonight?

 

[Kramerica Industries]

The only potential downside-- and I have struggled with this conundrum for several days-- is you see a bunch of exasperated posts in response to people you've previously ignored, and I then find myself really tempted to click "Show" and see what sort of crazy thing was posted, lol

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I don't think Andrej could handle being the lead gaurd it would result in too many turnovers. He is great in one on one situations but he forces the ball into too much traffic at times and he is not looking to pass it. If he would start dishing the ball out every so often it would help him as well as the rest of the team. That would make him a viable option at lead gaurd imho.

But this is exactly my point. His turnovers are because he is not really making a decision. It's not like he's trying to find passes and just throwing the ball away constantly. It's an ISO setup where it's basically just "I score or I don't." He'd have to work on a different role in the offseason, where he would be focusing on reading the defense and making the right decision. He's never been asked to do that in that way. Doesn't mean he's incapable. I think it's the logical next step in his evolution as a basketball player. It may turn out he can't do it, but I think it's worth a try for all parties involved.

 

[AssemblyHallForever]

Coleman is not backup PG. He’s going to start at SG.

Morillo is interesting since he can play 1-4. The thing is we’re counting on him to be ready. If he is, he’ll definitely see the court since he can fill 4 of the 5 spots.

Morrillo is the jack of all trades type. Can play 4 positions. So I do not see another 3/4 coming in. We are 9 deep now if we count Brown as the backup PG but as some insiders have mentioned, we may be done portalling and looking to Europe for a backup PG. if we did look into the portal, I would look ag bringing in a guy who would be happy playing 10 minutes a game at PG. We really do not have a small quick guard stopper. Our length will give teams trouble and I see us going more matchup zone than a straight man to man. I still like the idea of working 10 guys into the rotation in the non conference and going 8-9 in the regular season. We always seen to have a quirky injury or illness during the season so the deeper we are, the better off we will be.

 

[Illinifan533]

While I think we’ll still be very good without Blackwell, I’m in the camp that you can never have too much depth. Michigan’s “We have 9 starters” slogan this past year was corny but outside of looking mortal in the Big Ten tournament, losing LJ Cason didn’t hurt them at all because of how deep they were. Getting Blackwell (or Christian Anderson if the rumors are true) would be icing on the cake.