Chicago Cubs 2026

#526      
Warren Carter Fanclub
Second place is 1st loser said:
Now, a ball behind thrown six inches behind and below the head is a pitch with the intent to severely hurt. The normal reaction of a hitter on a high, tight fastball is to get the head out of the way(move the head back), then tuck the head in(move the head down). That's the bean ball and that's careless. There was none of that going on.
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I'm confused. Are you saying that there were no pitches thrown at or behind the head? That's EXACTLY what there was...just in the game yesterday.
Hoerner got beaned in the helmet and a ball was thrown a couple inches behind Shaw's head after one knocked him down the pitch before.
I don't know what the intent was. According to Sutcliffe however, Adam, who was pitching against Shaw, is known to have good control.
It's a good thing the game was close because it could have gotten ugly.
 
#527      
Second place is 1st loser
Warren Carter Fanclub said:
I'm confused. Are you saying that there were no pitches thrown at or behind the head? That's EXACTLY what there was...just in the game yesterday.
Hoerner got beaned in the helmet and a ball was thrown a couple inches behind Shaw's head after one knocked him down the pitch before.
I don't know what the intent was. According to Sutcliffe however, Adam, who was pitching against Shaw, is known to have good control.
It's a good thing the game was close because it could have gotten ugly.
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In a close game nobody is trying to hit anyone. That's common sense. Anyone who thinks that in a one run game, a pitcher has the intent of purposely putting someone on base is arguing to argue. That pitcher world be outright released and any manager who sent that message would be fired.

There is no history of bad blood between these teams. Cubs vs Brewers? Yeah, the potential is there for some hard feelings. Padres vs Dodgers...same.

If the Cubs were up 11-0 and stealing bases in the 8th inning of any of the games, I think it's possible that a message might be sent showing that it wasn't appreciated.

There is a 0% chance that either of those occurrences had any sort of intent to put anyone on base.... especially a guy like Hoerner who can easily swipe a bag.

You say it's a good thing that it was close because it could have gotten ugly. The fact that it was close is what would have kept the Padres from doing anything stupid to begin with.

There is absolutely there nothing to suggest that anything was even remotely bubbling up to the level of having shots fired.

I love Sutcliffe, but he gets caught up being a fan(meaning he gets emotional) when he's stepping in for JD. He would fit this board perfectly.
 
#528      
Illiniaaron
Second place is 1st loser said:
In a close game nobody is trying to hit anyone. That's common sense. Anyone who thinks that in a one run game, a pitcher has the intent of purposely putting someone on base is arguing to argue. That pitcher world be outright released and any manager who sent that message would be fired.

There is no history of bad blood between these teams. Cubs vs Brewers? Yeah, the potential is there for some hard feelings. Padres vs Dodgers...same.

If the Cubs were up 11-0 and stealing bases in the 8th inning of any of the games, I think it's possible that a message might be sent showing that it wasn't appreciated.

There is a 0% chance that either of those occurrences had any sort of intent to put anyone on base.... especially a guy like Hoerner who can easily swipe a bag.

You say it's a good thing that it was close because it could have gotten ugly. The fact that it was close is what would have kept the Padres from doing anything stupid to begin with.

There is absolutely there nothing to suggest that anything was even remotely bubbling up to the level of having shots fired.

I love Sutcliffe, but he gets caught up being a fan(meaning he gets emotional) when he's stepping in for JD. He would fit this board perfectly.
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It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not. I listed all the times in the last two games of pitches near the Cubs’ heads. It’s careless and dangerous. Did you watch both games? In your first post you said you thought they were throwing inside on purpose. Now you’re saying it wasn’t on purpose?
 
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#529      
Second place is 1st loser
Illiniaaron said:
It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not. I listed all the times in the last two games of pitches near the Cubs’ heads. It’s careless and dangerous. Did you watch both games? In your first post you said you thought they were throwing inside on purpose. Now you’re saying it wasn’t on purpose?
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Yes, pitchers pitch inside on purpose and I'm certain that's the case. Now, if they hit a guy, they hit a guy. It's obviously not what they want to do in a one run game, but a fastball up and in sets up a slider low and away. That will remain true for as long as baseball is a game.

Did they mean to throw inside? Yes
Did they mean to hit guys and give a free pass? No.

Is that clearer?

Another point here. One of the pitchers threw in the low 90's and threw knuckleballs. These aren't "message senders".
 
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#530      
Illiniaaron
Second place is 1st loser said:
Yes, pitchers pitch inside on purpose and I'm certain that's the case. Now, if they hit a guy, they hit a guy. It's obviously not what they want to do in a one run game, but a fastball up and in sets up a slider low and away. That will remain true for as long as baseball is a game.

Did they mean to throw inside? Yes
Did they mean to hit guys and give a free pass? No.

Is that clearer?

Another point here. One of the pitchers threw in the low 90's and threw knuckleballs. These aren't "message senders".
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Why is this such a difficult concept? You can move guys off the plate without chin music. So…low 90s isn’t a message. Does it have to be 95? 98? Suzuki and Bregman sure didn’t look happy on their !!! getting up.
 
#531      
Second place is 1st loser
Illiniaaron said:
Why is this such a difficult concept? You can move guys off the plate without chin music. So…low 90s isn’t a message. Does it have to be 95? 98? Suzuki and Bregman sure didn’t look happy on their !!! getting up.
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It's not a difficult concept. The issue is that I don't think you've ever pitched. By your comments, I can guarantee it.

1)NO, you don't take 10 MPH off of a pitch to come inside. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

2)The difference between chin music and a ball landing 15 rows into the left field stands is about 18 inches. 18 inches down and in and you're watching the hitter trot around the bags. These pitchers aren't robots. If you lose control up and in, it could hit a guy. If you miss low and away, a wild pitch can result.

3)If you're TRYING to hit someone, it's going to happen right between the shoulder blades, in the ribs or on the butt. There's no guessing the intent and it is NOT going to happen in a tight game.

Suzuki might not have liked it, Bregman might not have liked it and Shaw might not have liked it. Do you know how you return the favor? Hang in there on the next pitch and put a good swing on it. The purpose pitch to Shaw didn't serve its purpose and he served it over the fence. He recognized the pitch for what it was and it didn't deter him from locking in, as A MAJOR LEAGUE HITTER, and getting the job done. I guarantee you that the pitcher wasn't happy with that outcome.

If you want everyone to be happy and comfortable, go join a Co-Ed softball league.

If you want to see intensity, competitiveness and players earning their 8 - 9 figure contracts....watch a major league baseball game and watch guys doing what they have to do to get the job done. It's professional sports for eff's sake.

Messages sent are part of high level sports. In basketball, it's taking a good, hard, physical foul. Sometimes guys catch one across the head. In hockey, they'll drop the gloves. If football, if a QB gets too comfortable, a heavy shot is coming to keep that head on a swivel and keep those feet from setting. Teams are willing to take penalties for that.

In baseball, you come inside and in doing that, guys can get hit. That's been the case since the beginning of time.

This crap where a hitter can get in body armor coming to the plate and a pitcher has to take something off or can't come in more than 4 inches off the plate without people crying is ridiculous.

Shaw provided a major league response. Not liking it and complaining is exactly what the pitcher wants

If Counsell had an issue with it, he would have said something. If the umpires had an issue with it, warning would have been issued to both teams. Why didn't any of those things happen? Answer....it's part of the game. This isn't the pony league.

The everyone gets a participation trophy vibe is strong with you.
 
#532      
Second place is 1st loser
Illiniaaron said:
Why is this such a difficult concept? You can move guys off the plate without chin music. So…low 90s isn’t a message. Does it have to be 95? 98? Suzuki and Bregman sure didn’t look happy on their !!! getting up.
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Let me add one more point. The Padres bullpen is the lifeline of that team. The starters are solid. The offense can be really good, but they're in a funk. The Padres bullpen is dominant. If they get the lead in the 6th, the game is usually over.

On Monday, the Cubs scored 9 runs. The Padres bullpen struggled significantly.

On Tuesday, the Cubs scored 8 runs. The Padres bullpen again struggled again.

On Wednesday, if you're the pitching coach, you see that and it's clear the hitters were way too comfortable. The approach has to change. You saw the change. Yet, 5 walks and HBP's. That's not a winning formula. 22 runs in 3 games doesn''t work. If that pen struggles, they'll finish 10 games behind LA. They need to fix the situation and the answer isn't headhunting. They're struggling and the Cubs benefited.
 
#533      
Emerson Bigguns
Warren Carter Fanclub said:
I'm confused. Are you saying that there were no pitches thrown at or behind the head? That's EXACTLY what there was...just in the game yesterday.
Hoerner got beaned in the helmet and a ball was thrown a couple inches behind Shaw's head after one knocked him down the pitch before.
I don't know what the intent was. According to Sutcliffe however, Adam, who was pitching against Shaw, is known to have good control.
It's a good thing the game was close because it could have gotten ugly.
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I think the game being close is exhibit A that the intent was not likely malicious. Even a guy who is known to have good control will have a few get away from them. The game is different in a lot of ways from what is used to be, but the pitcher still needs to pitch inside to get outs consistently.

No one is trying to put a man on base in a one run game, especially guys like Hoerner or Shaw who can easily get into scoring position on the next pitch.
 
#534      
Second place is 1st loser
Emerson Bigguns said:
I think the game being close is exhibit A that the intent was not likely malicious. Even a guy who is known to have good control will have a few get away from them. The game is different in a lot of ways from what is used to be, but the pitcher still needs to pitch inside to get outs consistently.

No one is trying to put a man on base in a one run game, especially guys like Hoerner or Shaw who can easily get into scoring position on the next pitch.
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This. 100% on point.

I've tried 3 different ways to get this point across, but it hasn't worked. It resulted in being told that pitchers should take something off if they're going to come inside and the pitcher was wrong because Bregman and Suzuki were mad. Hoerner laughed about it after the game and you're right, hitting Hoerner or Shaw could and probably would turn into what amounts to a double after they swiped second.

I got a little snarky out of frustration. I couldn't get him to understand that a lack of control happens and it goes both ways. Can it hit a guy if it comes too far up and in? Absolutely. Part of the game. Conversely, if you miss and it floats over the plate, can it get hit a long way? Absolutely.

Heck, I can promise him that the ball that Shaw hit out wasn't where it was supposed to be. He had him set up after come up and in, but then caught too much of the plate.

These pitchers aren't robots. Greg Maddux hit guys and he could hit a dime if you hung it anywhere over the plate. He was that good.

Like you said correctly, a lot has changed. One of the changes being teams have 5 guys in their pen who throw 95+ with one or two of those guys being able to throw 98 to 102. So, the drama of coming inside is far more pronounced. Just because you throw harder doesn't mean the philosophy changes. Even throwing 100MPH, if a major leaguer is comfortable in this box, they can hit it a real long way.
 
#535      
Warren Carter Fanclub
Not saying there was an intent to injure or hit any of the Cub batters. Looking back there was no reason for the Padres to be upset about anything.
However, there is no way major league pitchers knock down 5 batters in a series, all up and in, and it just being bad control.
Hey, we won 2 of 3. Let's do that again this weekend and get ready for The Big Red Machine. :ROFLMAO:
 
#536      
Illiniaaron
It's not a difficult concept. The issue is that I don't think you've ever pitched. By your comments, I can guarantee it.

1)NO, you don't take 10 MPH off of a pitch to come inside. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

2)The difference between chin music and a ball landing 15 rows into the left field stands is about 18 inches. 18 inches down and in and you're watching the hitter trot around the bags. These pitchers aren't robots. If you lose control up and in, it could hit a guy. If you miss low and away, a wild pitch can result.

3)If you're TRYING to hit someone, it's going to happen right between the shoulder blades, in the ribs or on the butt. There's no guessing the intent and it is NOT going to happen in a tight game.

Suzuki might not have liked it, Bregman might not have liked it and Shaw might not have liked it. Do you know how you return the favor? Hang in there on the next pitch and put a good swing on it. The purpose pitch to Shaw didn't serve its purpose and he served it over the fence. He recognized the pitch for what it was and it didn't deter him from locking in, as A MAJOR LEAGUE HITTER, and getting the job done. I guarantee you that the pitcher wasn't happy with that outcome.

If you want everyone to be happy and comfortable, go join a Co-Ed softball league.

If you want to see intensity, competitiveness and players earning their 8 - 9 figure contracts....watch a major league baseball game and watch guys doing what they have to do to get the job done. It's professional sports for eff's sake.

Messages sent are part of high level sports. In basketball, it's taking a good, hard, physical foul. Sometimes guys catch one across the head. In hockey, they'll drop the gloves. If football, if a QB gets too comfortable, a heavy shot is coming to keep that head on a swivel and keep those feet from setting. Teams are willing to take penalties for that.

In baseball, you come inside and in doing that, guys can get hit. That's been the case since the beginning of time.

This crap where a hitter can get in body armor coming to the plate and a pitcher has to take something off or can't come in more than 4 inches off the plate without people crying is ridiculous.

Shaw provided a major league response. Not liking it and complaining is exactly what the pitcher wants

If Counsell had an issue with it, he would have said something. If the umpires had an issue with it, warning would have been issued to both teams. Why didn't any of those things happen? Answer....it's part of the game. This isn't the pony league.

The everyone gets a participation trophy vibe is strong with you.
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I'm happy for you that you pitched in high school. You seem to be clueless that guys don't like pitches near their head or having to hit the deck. By your comments, I guess you never hit. I can guarantee it. I never said the pitches were intentional. I said they were careless. Counsell didn't have to say anything about it. There were plenty of media people that mentioned this after the series. You admit the Padres were sending a message, which is what I also said. I think the Cubs should send a message back when they visit Chicago. That's it. The "I know everything about MLB" vibe is strong with you.
 
#537      
Illiniaaron
This. 100% on point.

I've tried 3 different ways to get this point across, but it hasn't worked. It resulted in being told that pitchers should take something off if they're going to come inside and the pitcher was wrong because Bregman and Suzuki were mad. Hoerner laughed about it after the game and you're right, hitting Hoerner or Shaw could and probably would turn into what amounts to a double after they swiped second.

I got a little snarky out of frustration. I couldn't get him to understand that a lack of control happens and it goes both ways. Can it hit a guy if it comes too far up and in? Absolutely. Part of the game. Conversely, if you miss and it floats over the plate, can it get hit a long way? Absolutely.

Heck, I can promise him that the ball that Shaw hit out wasn't where it was supposed to be. He had him set up after come up and in, but then caught too much of the plate.

These pitchers aren't robots. Greg Maddux hit guys and he could hit a dime if you hung it anywhere over the plate. He was that good.

Like you said correctly, a lot has changed. One of the changes being teams have 5 guys in their pen who throw 95+ with one or two of those guys being able to throw 98 to 102. So, the drama of coming inside is far more pronounced. Just because you throw harder doesn't mean the philosophy changes. Even throwing 100MPH, if a major leaguer is comfortable in this box, they can hit it a real long way.
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Dude, read better. I never said they should take something off to go inside. You said the inside pitch wasn't a message since it was in the low 90s. I asked what mph a message would be, that's it. We don't disagree that MLB is highly competitive, or that pitching inside is part of the deal. We disagree on whether you can brush a guy off waist-high, or if it has to be head-high. My point was that it happened too much in that series, I can guarantee the Cubs' hitters didn't like it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs send their own message later. No biggie. Anyway, no sense for this to go on any further, I'm sure to the relief of everyone else.
 
#549      
Emerson Bigguns
ChiefGritty said:
That merch is a big hit with the fans.

I was out at Wrigley yesterday, nice weather and a team that's coming together!
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Offense has been clicking over the last few weeks. No easy outs.

Regression working in our favor after a rough start.

Remember a couple weeks ago when we were panicked about our offense and lamenting the Cam Smith and Owen Cassie trades?
Old Times Nostalgia GIF by The LSD Hotel


Check the stats on those guys now... Cassie has struck out at a nearly 50% clip since April 10th. Smith has hit about .100 over the past couple of weeks...



How about Ben Brown lately? Kid is figuring it out...
 
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