WNBA

[jamarvelous31]

1. That type of foul is uncalled for.
2. Carrington's tweet afterwards was racist.
3. The WNBA should put a stop to both: that type of foul and that type of tweet.

Are any of these opinions controversial?

You forgot 4:

4. The media response to 1-3 is mostly driven by bad faith culture warriors that have very little interest in the WNBA

e.g., Royce "the protector of granddaughters" White currently has an order of protection against him for his wife and has never been documented at a WNBA game or the FL AG with a press release about how he would charge it as assault when there isn't a FL WNBA team

 

[the juiceman cometh]

1. That type of foul is uncalled for.
2. Carrington's tweet afterwards was racist.
3. The WNBA should put a stop to both: that type of foul and that type of tweet.

Are any of these opinions controversial?

1. Sure which is why the player was ejected. So what's the problem?

On the foul itself, the big question I have is, how is that an issue that requires significant news coverage and it's own thread on this board? I've seen hard fouls in college basketball. I've seen hard fouls in the NBA. I've even seen them go unpunished. So why is this specific foul, which was punished, a major issue that's riled up so many people

2. You still haven't explained how. So please, do tell.

3. On the foul, the WNBA, like any other basketball league, has rules in place for fouls and enforced them in this instance, what else should they do? And still waiting on an explanation for how that tweet was racist.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

By the way, I don't remember anyone on this board being worked up about the WNBA's foul problem when your girl did this:

6 comments | Let’s not forget when Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham did this to then-Connecticut Sun Jacy Sheldon last season. The same people making comments calling out DiJonai Carrington and her fouls today are the same ones that applauded C

Let’s not forget when Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham did this to then-Connecticut Sun Jacy Sheldon last season. The same people making comments calling out DiJonai Carrington and her fouls...

www.facebook.com

 

[myspace]

And just so we're clear, the only reason we're arguing about this is because Mr. Tibbs made the unsubstantiated claim that the league was blaming Sophie.

This is the kind of nonsense that's the root of many problems with the WNBA: People who don't care about the actual game being played stirring up trouble for no reason. Just so we're on the same page here.

On a more positive note, the games are actually pretty fun to watch. Lots of good players and lots of cool storylines. Really enjoyed how the Fever nearly made the finals last year despite so many players with season-ending injuries. The Valkyries immediately being pretty good as an expansion team is also a lot of fun.

Thank you. You & @the juiceman cometh and others are admirable in your approach while I am fighting to stay pleasant. Hopeful that irrelevancy can prevail.

Also, some folks need to understand/learn that there is a difference in something being said that is RACIAL and something that is RACIST.

 

[KBLEE]

Also, some folks need to understand/learn that there is a difference in something being said that is RACIAL and something that is RACIST.

They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Illiniaaron]

Oh @Mr. Tibbs look what you started

I am torn between wanting to keep this site free of political discussion, but also finding the topic interesting. Especially that we have former NBA players proclaiming themselves women and declaring for the next WNBA draft, but it is the dirty foul and tweet causing the ruckus here.

Seems to strike a nerve with some here, and that is their prerogative. But I guess some here do care about it, to whatever degree (even as just an off-season discussion filler), and if folks don't see the inherent racism in 'white privilege' then I doubt I could convince them otherwise. It's in the name...

I think Mr. Tibbs knows that he pulled the pin and threw a grenade into the room

 

[iFlyBy]

By the way, I don't remember anyone on this board being worked up about the WNBA's foul problem when your girl did this:

6 comments | Let’s not forget when Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham did this to then-Connecticut Sun Jacy Sheldon last season. The same people making comments calling out DiJonai Carrington and her fouls today are the same ones that applauded C

Let’s not forget when Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham did this to then-Connecticut Sun Jacy Sheldon last season. The same people making comments calling out DiJonai Carrington and her fouls...

www.facebook.com

In the interest of fairness, that was a pretty different situation. While I think what Sophie did was wrong, I understand why it happened and think the blame lies mostly with the refs who failed to control the game.

This happened earlier in the game. 3 techs were assessed after review: Clark (??), Tina Charles (I guess?), and Marina Mabrey (Not ejected??). Not ejecting Mabrey was ridiculous. Giving a tech to Clark while not giving one to Sheldon is pretty ridiculous. The refs failed to control the situation, and that almost always leads to players taking matters into their own hands. That’s what led to the hard foul and fight at the end of the game.

Anyway, this kind of thing happens a lot in the NBA as well. There's no need to claim there's some grand conspiracy or whatever nonsense. Both last year's scuffle and the current Carrington foul should largely be nothingburgers. The only worthwhile burger is that refs need to be better.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

In the interest of fairness, that was a pretty different situation. While I think what Sophie did was wrong, I understand why it happened and think the blame lies mostly with the refs who failed to control the game.

This happened earlier in the game. 3 techs were assessed after review: Clark (??), Tina Charles (I guess?), and Marina Mabrey (Not ejected??). Not ejecting Mabrey was ridiculous. Giving a tech to Clark while not giving one to Sheldon is pretty ridiculous. The refs failed to control the situation, and that almost always leads to players taking matters into their own hands. That’s what led to the hard foul and fight at the end of the game.

Sure, different situation. While those differences might be important in the context of evaluating player culpability, they really aren't that relevant if the argument is "WNBA players are acting violently and the league needs to do something about it!" The point I was trying to make is in essense what you have written down below. The people jumping on this current situation aren't "concerned citizens who want to ensure the safety of WNBA players and were shocked by the hard fouling going on." Because hard fouling is not new. But unfortunately, the outrage does tend to be selective.

For example, there have been 3 F2 fouls called this season in the WNBA. Two of them sparked some significant outrage - this one and the one against Caitlin Clark. The third one got like no attention at all. Why? Because the foul was committed against Angel Reese, a player who seems to be largely despised by the same types of people that get activated every time Clark is fouled. Trust me, nobody is going to threaten assault charges for any kind of hard foul if Angel Reese is on the receiving end.

Anyway, this kind of thing happens a lot in the NBA as well. There's no need to claim there's some grand conspiracy or whatever nonsense. Both last year's scuffle and the current Carrington foul should largely be nothingburgers. The only worthwhile burger is that refs need to be better.

Yes, absolutely agree. Reffing is not great at that level, but also not sure why anyone would expect it to be. If you are good enough to be a ref anywhere, you're not choosing the WNBA. Major college conferences pay better, and wouldn't be surprised if some of the mid-majors did as well. And of course the NBA is where the best refs go. NBA ref is a full-time gig paying up to $550k a year. WNBA and NCAA refs are paid per game, but the WNBA earnings are low compared to better NCAA gigs. So, you're just not getting the best refs.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Sure, different situation. While those differences might be important in the context of evaluating player culpability, they really aren't that relevant if the argument is "WNBA players are acting violently and the league needs to do something about it!" The point I was trying to make is in essense what you have written down below. The people jumping on this current situation aren't "concerned citizens who want to ensure the safety of WNBA players and were shocked by the hard fouling going on." Because hard fouling is not new. But unfortunately, the outrage does tend to be selective.

For example, there have been 3 F2 fouls called this season in the WNBA. Two of them sparked some significant outrage - this one and the one against Caitlin Clark. The third one got like no attention at all. Why? Because the foul was committed against Angel Reese, a player who seems to be largely despised by the same types of people that get activated every time Clark is fouled. Trust me, nobody is going to threaten assault charges for any kind of hard foul if Angel Reese is one the receiving end.



Yes, absolutely agree. Reffing is not great at that level, but also not sure why anyone would expect it to be. If you are good enough to be a ref anywhere, you're not choosing the WNBA. Major college conferences pay better, and wouldn't be surprised if some of the mid-majors did as well. And of course the NBA is where the best refs go. NBA ref is a full-time gig paying up to $550k a year. WNBA and NCAA refs are paid per game, but the WNBA earnings are low compared to better NCAA gigs. So, you're just not getting the best refs.

I'm not going to go down this path too much further, but you're criminally underselling the dynamics of the Caitlyn Clark and her meaning to the women's game. A lot of this drama stems from the Clark and Reese two year NCAA saga and the absolute Caitlyn Clark insanity that took over the women's game. Those games had a larger viewership than the men's game. Fox's NATIONAL Saturday Night Hoops game had TWO Iowa women's games preempt the men's games.

The "chase" for the NCAA scoring record was highlighted every single night, then when she broke the record, some said it wasn't valid because some woman from some obscure school that nobody's ever heard of really had it. Magically, she got herself on TV as wanting to be the one associated with the scoring record.

This stuff has been going on WELL prior to the WNBA. The whole Angel Reese vs Caitlyn Clark "rivalry" carried on and I hate to break it to you, but there were racial lines drawn by people who could t give one lick about women's ball.

The viewership for the Women's Final Four went right back into the toilet, while the WNBA's skyrocketed. Her fanbase is insane, while her detractors absolutely despise her and this is what you get.

Instead of the WNBA running with this and managing it to a Magic vs Larry dynamic.....you've seen what's unfolded. The opportunity was there to create the same giant and instead, Enes Kanter wants to sign up for the 2027 WNBA draft.

Yes, they have overcompensated for Clark's popularity as to not polarize the rest of the league. This is exactly what happens when you pick sides in management. Anger and resentment and in today's world, chaos.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Now here's a thread I never thought I'd see

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Now here's a thread I never thought I'd see

It's a world that I would have never thought I'd see. Trying to keep it to sports and pushing all of the other BS aside, I think that most have become numb to the ridiculousness of what's going on.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I'm not going to go down this path too much further, but you're criminally underselling the dynamics of the Caitlyn Clark and her meaning to the women's game. A lot of this drama stems from the Clark and Reese two year NCAA saga and the absolute Caitlyn Clark insanity that took over the women's game. Those games had a larger viewership than the men's game. Fox's NATIONAL Saturday Night Hoops game had TWO Iowa women's games preempt the men's games.

The "chase" for the NCAA scoring record was highlighted every single night, then when she broke the record, some said it wasn't valid because some woman from some obscure school that nobody's ever heard of really had it. Magically, she got herself on TV as wanting to be the one associated with the scoring record.

This stuff has been going on WELL prior to the WNBA. The whole Angel Reese vs Caitlyn Clark "rivalry" carried on and I hate to break it to you, but there were racial lines drawn by people who could t give one lick about women's ball.

The viewership for the Women's Final Four went right back into the toilet, while the WNBA's skyrocketed. Her fanbase is insane, while her detractors absolutely despise her and this is what you get.

Instead of the WNBA running with this and managing it to a Magic vs Larry dynamic.....you've seen what's unfolded. The opportunity was there to create the same giant and instead, Enes Kanter wants to sign up for the 2027 WNBA draft.

Yes, they have overcompensated for Clark's popularity as to not polarize the rest of the league. This is exactly what happens when you pick sides in management. Anger and resentment and in today's world, chaos.

You're not wrong at all on the dynamics at play. Not sure I was underselling it, just so much as not getting directly into the Caitlin Clark of it all.

I think the way it kinda played out is the Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese rivalry kinda happened organically. Phenom player everyone likes vs. best player on the powerhouse team. Then those racial lines you talk about got drawn by those people for whom women's basketball is just a convenient venue to air out whatever they wanted to air out.

I suppose that the WNBA could have tried to capitalize and play all this up, but I honestly can't fault them for not doing it. I'm not sure the WNBA actively encouraging that would have somehow turned the temperature down. And honestly, it does not seem like Reese or Clark wanted it, nor does it seem like it would have served them well. Unlike Cunningham, it seems to me that Clark wants this nonsense to end so she can play ball. That's the greatest irony in this whole thing. The people who hold Clark up as some martyr are actually doing her a great disservice. I mean, now you have people like Megyn Kelly criticizing Clark for not taking a stand on political issues, for not being enough like Sophie Cunningham. It's insane. If you actually cared about her you'd just let her play ball and not try to turn her into a lightning rod. Of course they don't care about her, they just care about an image of her they want to project onto the world without her consent.

 

[jamarvelous31]

Now here's a thread I never thought I'd see

Honestly, it's great for the WNBA in the P.T. Barnum school of publicity...

I do think most folks, on either side of the argument, would agree they need a better commissioner and that's a big part of this.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Honestly, it's great for the WNBA in the P.T. Barnum school of publicity...

I do think most folks, on either side of the argument, would agree they need a better commissioner and that's a big part of this.

To me, the commissioner is where the buck stops. She has failed at every turn. Their one and only job is to do what's best for ALL of this fans and the game. Keep it about the sport, which ultimately alienates nobody.

In the NBA, David Stearn took the League international because he had that vision and he knew how to sell his product. He was also handed a golden ticket. Michael Jordan. Magic and Larry handed him the torch and he took it from there. That's not to say that there weren't bumps and bruises along the way because Jordan did get iced out. He was the object of hard fouls and some questionable tactics. All that said, when push came to shove, he was protected and he took the league to where it is today, which is pretty much every country on the planet. The man built Nike.

I watch the complete s***show that is the WNBA and wonder, after ALL OF THEIR WHINING, while that commissioner can't just follow the path of those before her. She was also handed an absolute gift, but she has the business sense of a billy goat. Now, they're stuck. Instead of listening to the fans, focusing on the game and growing the game..... they've turned off the 50/50 fan that was on the fence on whether to buy in or not.

If Kanter us successful in pulling off being included in next year's draft, then the flood gates are going to open and it's going to be hysterical. If they try and block him from getting drafted, the lawyers will be out in full effect.

How the owners can sit back and watch this unfold is beyond me. What a waste of an opportunity.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

If Kanter us successful in pulling off being included in next year's draft, then the flood gates are going to open and it's going to be hysterical. If they try and block him from getting drafted, the lawyers will be out in full effect.

I mean, why would any team actually draft him? This is clearly a completely disingenuous stunt and it's pretty clear he does not intend to actually play in the WNBA. Why waste a draft pick? And given that it's hard for WNBA teams to cultivate a fanbase as it is, why risk alienating the few genuine fans of women's professional basketball that actually exist by legitimizing this obvious grift by a has been trying to stay relevant, particularly when he will never play a single minute of WNBA basketball.

Also, the eligibility rules do require that players are women. While there's some debate over how this applies to transgender women (no trans women have ever played in the WNBA btw), Kanter is not trans, and does not actually identify as a woman. I actually don't think it would be difficult to keep him out at all, not that anyone would draft him anyway.

 

[blackdog]

You're not wrong at all on the dynamics at play. Not sure I was underselling it, just so much as not getting directly into the Caitlin Clark of it all.

I think the way it kinda played out is the Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese rivalry kinda happened organically. Phenom player everyone likes vs. best player on the powerhouse team. Then those racial lines you talk about got drawn by those people for whom women's basketball is just a convenient venue to air out whatever they wanted to air out.

I suppose that the WNBA could have tried to capitalize and play all this up, but I honestly can't fault them for not doing it. I'm not sure the WNBA actively encouraging that would have somehow turned the temperature down. And honestly, it does not seem like Reese or Clark wanted it, nor does it seem like it would have served them well. Unlike Cunningham, it seems to me that Clark wants this nonsense to end so she can play ball. That's the greatest irony in this whole thing. The people who hold Clark up as some martyr are actually doing her a great disservice. I mean, now you have people like Megyn Kelly criticizing Clark for not taking a stand on political issues, for not being enough like Sophie Cunningham. It's insane. If you actually cared about her you'd just let her play ball and not try to turn her into a lightning rod. Of course they don't care about her, they just care about an image of her they want to project onto the world without her consent.

The rivalry aspect happens a ton in other leagues and players are able to handle it gracefully. For example in the NHL Ovechkin vs Crosby was hyped from day 1 and has been going for over 20 years. They battle on the ice, they say super complimentary things about each other off it.

If Clark and Reese cant handle it thats a major failure in terms of PR prep by them, their camps, and the league. Just brings more ammo to the claim that women's basketball is really catty and filled with personal drama in a way that other women's leagues aren't.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

The rivalry aspect happens a ton in other leagues and players are able to handle it gracefully. For example in the NHL Ovechkin vs Crosby was hyped from day 1 and has been going for over 20 years. They battle on the ice, they say super complimentary things about each other off it.

If Clark and Reese cant handle it thats a major failure in terms of PR prep by them, their camps, and the league. Just brings more ammo to the claim that women's basketball is really catty and filled with personal drama in a way that other women's leagues aren't.

I think the major difference is that Ovechkin and Crosby didn't get wrapped up into the culture wars and most divisive political discourse of the time. It'd be more like if the NBA tried to gin up a rivalry between Bill Russell and Jerry West during the 60s and force Russell to be the avatar of the Civil Rights Movement and West be the avatar of the Jim Crow south.

If something like that had happened it would have particularly sucked for West and I doubt he'd have become the logo.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Honestly, it's great for the WNBA in the P.T. Barnum school of publicity...

It made this thread exist!

I feel like the trouble is it's not acting as an entry point for people to take the league seriously as a sports competition. Because on that basis, a controversy between Chicago and an Indiana team led by Iowa and Mizzou grads? I know which side I'm on!

 

[jamarvelous31]

It made this thread exist!

I feel like the trouble is it's not acting as an entry point for people to take the league seriously as a sports competition. Because on that basis, a controversy between Chicago and an Indiana team led by Iowa and Mizzou grads? I know which side I'm on!

It's the double edged sword of going from ~400k average viewers to 1.4M (on ESPN) average in 5 years.

You're spot on. IMO their leadership is just not ready for the moment and just isn't doing a good job of shaping the narratives. For instance, there was a 2000s study that claimed racism in NBA officiating and multiple Draymond Green claims... neither had 1/10th the lifecycle of this because the NBA is just better at this stuff (and Dray is unrelatedly crazy).

 

[AnnoyedWithGarza]

I'm not going to go down this path too much further, but you're criminally underselling the dynamics of the Caitlyn Clark and her meaning to the women's game. A lot of this drama stems from the Clark and Reese two year NCAA saga and the absolute Caitlyn Clark insanity that took over the women's game. Those games had a larger viewership than the men's game. Fox's NATIONAL Saturday Night Hoops game had TWO Iowa women's games preempt the men's games.

The "chase" for the NCAA scoring record was highlighted every single night, then when she broke the record, some said it wasn't valid because some woman from some obscure school that nobody's ever heard of really had it. Magically, she got herself on TV as wanting to be the one associated with the scoring record.

This stuff has been going on WELL prior to the WNBA. The whole Angel Reese vs Caitlyn Clark "rivalry" carried on and I hate to break it to you, but there were racial lines drawn by people who could t give one lick about women's ball.

The viewership for the Women's Final Four went right back into the toilet, while the WNBA's skyrocketed. Her fanbase is insane, while her detractors absolutely despise her and this is what you get.

Instead of the WNBA running with this and managing it to a Magic vs Larry dynamic.....you've seen what's unfolded. The opportunity was there to create the same giant and instead, Enes Kanter wants to sign up for the 2027 WNBA draft.

Yes, they have overcompensated for Clark's popularity as to not polarize the rest of the league. This is exactly what happens when you pick sides in management. Anger and resentment and in today's world, chaos.

Jordan and Jordan rules? I mean, this isn't the 1st time a generational player has been abused in their league. This isn't new. The insane outrage seems to be, though.