Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
everyone gets a visit!
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
everyone gets a visit!
Just remember, Aday Mara started all of 9 games in 2 years at UCLA. As soon as he showed he was good enough to play, he hit the portal.
Having a guy like that on the scout team now, doesn’t mean he will hang around long enough to be a difference maker. If guys think they should play more, resentment grows. Managing the egos of talented bench players has never been more difficult.
You’d rather be the coach who says, “Ive always loved your game and believed you should have played more/been a bigger focal point” Than they guy who has been telling you, you aren’t ready yet. (May seems to have been a pro at the former…glad he’s in Dallas)
I’m pretty confident if this season goes anything like we think it will, we won’t have trouble finding whatever we need.
Didn't there use to be a limit to the number of official visits a player could take????
I'm assuming schools are putting you and your family up while trying to woo you. Probably pretty fun and you get out of class if it's a weekday(don't know how much class these prep schools actually have).
Also, with the transfer portal it's probably a good idea to cast a wide net and then see how rosters look with retention or transfers before committing somewhere.
A player used to be limited to 5 official visits per year. That limit was removed ~3 years ago. I think the official visits are still limited to two nights to prevent teams from paying for their and their parent's housing year round.
Fine with me, agreed with this from the get-go. You win some, you lose some. Nobody ever wins 100% of their investments, especially not in this.
Here's this word you supposedly don't care about. Why would we argue over this word you don't care about (but also keep using)?
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If Petro wasn't a bust, then the term isn't even existent.
He was literally unplayable. Even when we needed him.
He was literally unplayable. Even when we needed him.
Need to wait at least until his college career reaches some sort of apex to label him a bust, sir.
Jimmy Butler: 2.6 ppg as a rookie
Steve Nash: 3.3 ppg as a rookie
Both busts amirite?
Infinitely more examples of this in college. I'm glad we didn't give up on someone like, say, Coleman Hawkins after a single season.
Coleman Hawkins his freshman year arrived as our #9thMan and was our #9thMan. He did not arrive with the expectation of being one of our highest paid and most sought after players like Petro.
Wagler was awesome, and therefore it's understandable that Petro wasn't one of our best players. But the fact that he couldn't even play and was the equivalent to a walk-on, makes him a bust from IIllinois's standpoint.
It's absolutely possible he goes to Seton Hall and has a great year. Just because it didn't work here doesn't mean it won't elsewhere.
Carey Booth was for all essence a "bust" in his time HERE (not quite to the degree of Petro; didn't exactly come in with starter expectations).
Was he a bust for Colorado State? I don't think so. Averaged 10.7pts / 5.7rebs / 41% from 3pt.
If Petro played, and say averaged 9 and 6, with mediocre defense. And we are a 6 seed and lose in sweet 16 - is he a bust from an Illini standpoint?
There will always be examples of players reaching or falling short of broad expectations. But I reallllllly wanna be careful calling guys who didn’t get on the court for awesome teams busts.
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Exactly, Carey Booth isn't a bust -- he has already had moderately successful seasons for two other D1 programs.
So then if we nitpick the Hawkins example because he was a 3 star recruit, there's literally countless more that fit your (now goalposts moved) criteria.
Buddy Hield was a 4 star recruit coming into Oklahoma, shot 23% from 3 and averaged 7ppg as a freshman. Went on to become the National Player of the Year.
Was he a bust?
Ed O'Bannon entered college as the Gatorade National Player of the Year and averaged 3.6 ppg as a freshman. Eventually became the Division I National Player of the Year while leading UCLA to a National Championship.
Was he a bust?
Jalen Brunson was a consensus 5-star recruit and a McD AA coming out of high school. He averaged 9 points 2 assists as a freshman. Eventually became Division I National Player of the Year while leading Villanova to the National Championship.
Was he a bust?
Shelden Williams arrived at Duke as a consensus top 5 recruit. Averaged 8 pts as a freshman and frequently plagued by foul trouble. As a senior, he ended up being the 5th pick in the draft.
Was he a bust?
I can keep going, but the point is we don't know yet.
EDIT: So we have multiple goalpost moves here: (1) he was a bust 'at Illinois' and (2) he was more highly regarded than Hawkins (my example doesn't *count*)
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For Illinois, he was a bust.
For somebody else, he could absolutely be a valuable piece.
It's entirely possible that he goes to Seton Hall and has a great year.
But for Illinois, he was a recruiting miss, and not good enough to play.
.....
It's a lot like Dembele for Barcelona.
Paid a ton of money and expected to be the Neymar replacement ---> struggles with injuries, doesn't go well.
Then goes to PSG, has led them to back-to-back UCLs, and won the Ballon Dor.
For Barca, he was a bust. For PSG, he was not.
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Yet another restriction. If you guys keep creating more limitations on what we can compare it to, there will be none at all.
Petro left so doesn’t get a chance to prove otherwise. But you’re moving the goalposts to win an argument I wasn’t participating in to begin with. From the very outset of this discussion I’d said: “I’d be willing to wager he has a productive season in the Big East this year”.
He might've been the most unreliable/unplayable 9th man in the Brad Underwood era.
I have no idea what “unplayable” means.
I watched a lot of bad basketball before Brad came here and during the rebuild, where there was much worse players on the court than Petro.
We had a guy named Greg Eboigbodin who transferred to Northeastern and averaged 3 points his final year of college ball who was “playable”. I promise you Petro was better than Te’Jon Lucas and Jaylon Tate who were “playable
Some dude named Denim Wojick played for MSU this year.
Wild
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I think this is the most reasonable explanation: if he isn't a bust, then WHAT IS a bust in the first place?
For all intents and purposes, his value to the team was no more or less than AJ Redd (especially from Dec. onward). He was probably our 4th highest paid player.
A microcosm of what it’s like to debate with people on the internet:
When someone takes a frail position on something, they just change what the argument is about.
Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Anthony Bennett
Players who were highly regarded and had poor careers
NOT a guy who played one season behind the #5 overall pick
"Playable" just means being able to get into games. (Unplayable would just be the opposite of that)
"In the Brad Underwood era" might be too far.
But our teams in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025 all had more deplorable and playable 9th men than Petro. You just have to look at the games played, minutes per game, etc.
It just seemed to come down to the staff not trusting him. It hurt our depth.
Is that a restriction? I'm just saying it's much easier to explain why a 17/18 yr old freshman going against 22 yr olds might struggle initially than it is to make excuses for a 22 year old first year.
What I said was: "If all this is over the word "bust", then let's set that aside since it's silly to argue over words."
There are plenty of things that I think and even say but don't feel like arguing about. This is one of those times, especially since using words with a negative connotation around here becomes a lightning rod or even a litmus test for who is a true believer, which I think is ridiculous.
Edit: I posted the above before catching up on the last ~page. And this isn't directed just at you or your side of this debate, but can't we all at least try to accept that other people might have a different - but still reasonable - threshold for a subjective word? Who cares if someone thinks x/y/z constitutes a bust or not? We agree he didn't contribute what we wanted to get for the $ we invested in him. He might go on to be great or he might not, and that's separate from what we got for our $ when he came here. Maybe he would have given us something if Wagler hadn't exploded, but the coaches evidently didn't think it was much or they would have at least played him more. Some call that a bust. Some don't. That's ok
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And he was behind Fears (just as Petro was behind Wagler).
Wojcik played in 31 (out of 35) Michigan State games, averaging 5.5 minutes and 1.2 assists in those minutes (though yes, he did not provide much scoring).
This was my idea for Petro at the bare minimum: come in and spell Wagler for around 5 or so minutes, and keep him from 40 minute watch every night.
Should be doable for a B10 backup point gaurd.
The fact that you're pointing out he couldn't even provide that (while pointing out a guy like Wojcik could), kind of contradicts your own point.