Noblesville Illini
- Nappanee, IN
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
1) If that was Petro's numbers, I don't believe you, i think you'd still call him a bust because as you said, that was not your expectations coming into the year. I have no way to prove that, but i think you'd still be critical - which was my overall point on the term "playable".
2) Again, id love if the fanbase didn't say thing like "couldnt even do provide that" or "hes a total bust" - especially if you're in the camp of hoping for more depth. I want dudes on the team who want to be here, and preferably ones who are good basketball players. As our program rises, we're gonna get better players who may not play, or play a lot, especially right away. I dont want good players coming here, who may be behind lottery picks on really good teams being called useless - it doesnt help us.
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Who was our dependable 9th man in 2020?
By minutes the 9th man was either Tevian Jones or Jermaine Hamlin. Tev ended up having a good career but that particular season he shot 16.7% from the field and had negative win shares and a negative PER. And Jermaine Hamlin was Jermaine Hamlin.
I was thinking Coleman Hawkins.
My brain has become wired to think: 2020 = pandemic = bubble basketball = 1 seed season.
But yes, that was 2021.
Merely pointing out that you suggested we “set it aside” and then you brought up that same word/point in your very next post.
Though I do agree that arguing over semantics here has became a feature rather than a bug.
I’ve been trying this entire time to use the term’s broader, general meaning as opposed to limiting it to one season/team (which is what’s transpired).
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Dr Copejam
- The Rock
I agreed with you up until here. At 22, having played in a pro league, being fairly worldly and can legally have a cocktail after a game......that's different than 18, right out of HS and hasn't experienced much outside of being a kid and basketball. When we start going back to Ed O'Bannon and even a guy like Brunson, it's a whole different planet now. Those guys weren't getting paid a half million dollar and up to produce game 1. So, the rules, expectations and experience isn't remotely the same. If Petro was only getting his scholarship money and was 18, that's an even comp to those guys. Being 21, making more than 95% of the country in a single year....it's a different standard. Any player comps to the players now to even the players 4 years ago, it's really apples to oranges.
Maybe the insiders can enlighten us to what his paycheck was and we can compare it to others in his salary range(that feels wrong to even say that). That's probably a better measure of performance.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you wrote, but I think the term’s definition has remained static over time: if a player’s overall career doesn’t live up to the expectations that were set.
If we start scoping it only to single seasons then I think the term loses its meaning/accuracy. Then we’re saying a player isn’t allowed to have even one single poor season, lest they’re a “bust”.
There's a difference between trying to use a certain meaning of a term and trying to get everyone else to use that same meaning.
Adam's representation was unfortunate.
Which meaning are you trying to force everyone else to use? The general/predominant meaning which takes into account a players entire career, or the “conveniently scoped” meaning that only takes into account a single season of data?
Eh, bust as in providing nothing for Illinois. Yeah.
Bust as in being a bad college player. I'm no so sure.
It's basically impossible to have a take on his ability because we hardly saw him play. Not like we really ever witnessed him being unplayable because of poor performance. We just never got to see him.
Wouldnt be surprised to see him have a good year for Seton Hall and end up putting up say 10 and 6.
I mean if we’re not talking about providing nothing for Illinois then what exactly are we talking about?
We payed him 1-2 million to be a practice player.
I acknowledge that Keaton was who he was, so I’m not saying he should’ve been a starter. But a serviceable enough backup PG in limited minutes would’ve been nice. Not somebody who can’t even get into a game where the team plays 6 guys, with the lone ball handler sitting for 36 seconds (it really isn’t one game, it’s the microcosm of the entire season).
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That’s completely reasonable. I’m just analyzing what he was for us last season.
I'm not trying to force others to use any definition. And I'm not going to spin their definition with charged words either. Life is more enjoyable just letting some things be, and getting clarity on others' definition is enough for me in this case. I don't need them to change theirs, just as I'm probably not going to change mine.
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Hey, I'm not in the locker room and don't really know what happened but Brad likes to ride his guys and play them heavy minutes.
Wagler averaged basically 34 minutes a game for the season. He averaged 35.5 and from December onward. Brad hasn't really played a backup point guard since Curbelo. Marcus Domask nearly led the country in minutes and Kasparis played a ton when healthy. Even if you go back to Curbelo, Frazier and Ayo were still averaging 34-35 minutes a night.
To me, Petrovic looks the part of a solid pnr point guard that is better playing on ball and is probably an average shooter(would guess he shoots low 30's from 3 this year).
That type of player tends to need minutes to get into a game and develop a feel for it and a rhythm. It's not an easy thing to do that if your only playing 5 minutes a night(it's a lot easier to be a 3pt specialist or defender in limited minutes than it is to run an offense and control the flow of the game).
$1.5M......ooof.
The fact that we're in a world where these numbers are a consideration makes happy for the kids, but sad for the sport.
We're judging guys by ROI now, I suppose. This one wasn't a good investment.
Been on this since midway last year.
We’re gonna have a lot more fun and reasonable conversation evaluating team ROI than individual player ROI