Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
Scheyer's job is to win games. Developing talent is certainly one way to achieve that goal, but by no means is it the only way.
Very true. He's a talent acquirer. Let's not mistake him for guys like Painter and Izzo. I have no problem with it, but please don't pose as a "developer". You don't develop anything. You go out and sell/buy JBB, Boozer, Flagg, Kneuppel and ride them.
I can't tell if I like the guy - comes off arrogant in a smug, low key kinda way.
He doesn't necessarily have to concentrate on developing talent. With all the 5 stars and top transfers he has enough talent available to just bench anyone who isn't producing and plug another one in. We on the other hand are not afforded that luxury.
Did I somehow get transported through the wormhole over to the Duke / Scheyer appreciation forum??
So a follow up on this. Robert had a good article on NIL (highly recommend you subscribe) and about how the new rules are supposed to prohibit “synthetic” NIL. Basically, the athletes have to actually do something for the NIL. A wealthy donor can’t just write a check.
Which brings me to Duke. With their small and wealthy alumni base they are made for a world of synthetic NIL. But how do they still have the most expensive roster in the sport in a world where synthetic NIL is not allowed. I’ve never been to the area, but my understanding is most people in the Raleigh Durham area are either UNC or NC State, so I don’t think Duke has endeared themselves to their local community such that there are a lot of local NIL opportunities available. Cooper Flagg and the Boozer twins were famous enough before even getting to Duke that they got national TV Ads, but those are more the exception than the rule. Most of their guys aren’t doing national spots.
As an example, we were way in on Dame Sarr, with many insiders indicating at various points he was coming here. But then Duke got involved and we got outbid, and we pivoted and used our Dame Sarr bag on Andrej. It seems likely Andrej was our highest paid player last year. So how can Duke afford to outspend us on our biggest bag reserved for alpha dogs for maybe their 4th or 5th option? We are probably top 10 nationally in NIL. Does Duke absolutely starve their football program in rev sharing? Even if they did, I’m still not sure the math adds up.
Are we back to where we were in the pre-NIL days of selective enforcement? So when a Duke NIL deal gets run by Deloitte or whoever it is they just shrug and rubber stamp?
The math just isn’t mathing to me.
It does boggle my mind just a bit that Duke is able to put 5-7 all stars on a roster, but other top programs (us included) cannot without losing a better or equal top guy from the team. Is it just that Dukes NIL budget is astronomically high?
Yes and its players also get commerical deals like the Boozers:
You'll notice UConn players do too: https://www.ispot.tv/ad/gGuj/turbotax-ncaa-march-madness-overwhelmed-featuring-solo-ball
Duke and UConn are in their own league. They're like the Real Madrid and Barcelona of college basketball. Perennial contenders and sometimes heavy favorites.
Nike, ESPN, sponsors. The Boozer boys were all over Gatorade last year.
I'm not sure how they do it, because they are very tight lipped around the spend. All I know is to have Cameron Williams, Bryce Howard, Deron Rippey, Cayden Boozer, Drew Scharnowski, Maxime Meyer and Sebastien Wilkins to sit on your bench, that roster alone has to be worth close to 10mm. The starting roster has to be at least 15-18mm.
I have no idea how Scheyer is going to find time for those guards - Blackwell is going to be a 30mpg guy, you'd think. So then you're splitting up the other 50 minutes across 3 guys? How in the world do you get these kids to agree to this. Is Cam Williams happy he was recruited over late stage and has to sit behind the 2028 top pick of the draft?
Why in the world did Max Meyer go there? He could be starting at top schools and he's a third stringer there. It's going to be really interesting how Scheyer keep that entire unit happy.
Not even close, lol. Real Madrid & Barca have won their league 17 times out of the last 20 years.
Duke & UConn have won the championship 6 out of the last 20 years.
Monopolies to that extent, are extremely unlikely in CBB.
UConn's calling card is that they also have that woman's program to build their overall brand. That program is legit and has more social followers than any men's program not named Duke. That ladies program is basically the the women's hoops mafia, players checkered all over the place.
UConn is down to the wire for Chris Henry's kid, Demarcus, who's ranked 2 in the country. It's basically them versus Cal, who usually wins these battles. I'm going to be really curious if Hurley can pull that one out. I don't think he will, but watch out if he does. Cal has been down that road and won too many times, had chicken money on speed dial. I think it's against Hurley's better principals to overpay a kid, so if he's got a kid like that coming at a discount over Cal, it won't be good.
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Has to be part of the equation. There is no way that kids are coming to Duke to sit bench and get undercut on $$. Ain't happening.
How can he develop a non 5 star, if they have zero non 5 star players on their roster to begin with?
Tbf though, Real Madrid and Barcelona are competing against 18 other teams for the championship.
College Basketball teams are (theoretically speaking) competing with 361. Obviously, the field is much smaller, but even if you take the tournament itself that’s 68 or however many it is now. And it’s single elimination. Accounting for 6 titles, and however many Final Four together between the two of them over the past 20 years is about as close as you can get given all things considered.
The Raleigh-Durham version of Saul Goodman has discovered plenty of loopholes around this already
Non walk-on players under Scheyer who weren't consensus 5 star prospects across his 4 year tenure there:
Jaylen Blakes
Kale Catchings
Jacob Grandison
Christian Reeves
Jaden Schutt
Ryan Young
Caleb Foster
Sean Stewart
Maliq Brown
Mason Gillis
Darren Harris
Sion James
Patrick Ngongba
Cameron Sheffield
Cayden Boozer
Jack Scott
Ifeanyi Ufochukwu
Sebastian Wilkins
Really, he's had a good success rate of translating consensus 5 star talent to the league, only a small handful of misses there:
Jeremy Roach - plays overseas
Sean Stewart - role player for Oregon
Dariq Whitehead - G league
TJ Power - plays for Penn
Jaylen Blakes
Kale Catchings
Jacob Grandison
Christian Reeves
Jaden Schutt
Ryan Young
Caleb Foster
Sean Stewart
Maliq Brown
Mason Gillis
Darren Harris
Sion James
Patrick Ngongba
Cameron Sheffield
Cayden Boozer
Jack Scott
Ifeanyi Ufochukwu
Sebastian Wilkins
Really, he's had a good success rate of translating consensus 5 star talent to the league, only a small handful of misses there:
Jeremy Roach - plays overseas
Sean Stewart - role player for Oregon
Dariq Whitehead - G league
TJ Power - plays for Penn
ptgrd23
- orange county CA
18 over 4 years. So his typical roster is EIGHT 5 stars and FOUR 4 stars?
The answer is right there in Robert’s article — certain schools are abusing the rules, and there is no enforcement.
The questions are fair. It’s fair to wonder how they can randomly wind up with a roster with 10 five stars at will.
It’s an insane amount of depth, especially considering the current climate.
No - I don't think a college coach has much impact at all on a one year 5*. You have them for 9 months. Most of anyone's NBA promise is
The best developers are guys like Painter, Izzo. Hurley has done some good work with non 5 stars, gotten kids drafted in the first round like Karaban, Clingan, Reed, some others too I cannot remember.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Well hold on.
Like Robert discusses in his article, there’s 2 ways players can get paid:
— Revenue sharing
— NIL
Every team has up to $20 million and some change they can spend on revenue sharing. Most programs spend $15 million on football. $4 million on basketball. And the remaining million or so on all other sports combined.
Looking at Duke specifically, since they have one of the lowest paid football rosters in the country, is it possible they’re giving a larger percentage to basketball than most programs? Yes.
When it comes to NIL. Of course, NIL is supposed to be completely legit. A player receives a fair market value compensation from a brand or company for using their Name, Image, and Likeness to market that brand or company.
Are there programs that stretch what “fair market value” means more than others? For sure.
But, a star Duke basketball player is still more marketable than a basketball player on almost every other team in the country. So the fair market value for a Duke player NIL likely is higher than most other teams.
A lot of the deals Illinois players land comes through Learfield. They work with a lot of programs and arrange deals between companies and players. I know Matt Bailey and Andrej got a commercial deal and I believe both were Learfield arranged. The bigger the brand the player plays for and the more of a star that player is, the more compensation they can receive for advertising.