Michigan just won the national championship. They played very fast:I havent posted much but i was kinda reading how situation will develop for our guys and at least for me, this is very concerning change, even bigger than some injuries from recent time. Article mentioned Miami Heat as an example for that and it caused them to have good offense but once teams scouted it, they couldnt buy a bucket or even defend decently despite having some really good defenders.
This is such a predictable gimmick offense that will fail spectacularly once teams adjust when games that actually matter which will happen most likely in March. Dont get me wrong, you will still run some weaker teams out of the gym and win a lot of games but i dont see this as a good thing. Playing fast sounds nice but its like everything in basketball, game of give and take. If you wanna win the whole thing, this isnt the way, this most likely put you on upset alert coming March.
Let me try to explain why, you will start playing high pace, 5-out basketball, score a lot of points and cause defensive chaos early on because you will be harder to scout and other teams wont really have time or personel to focus on multiple threats who could go off each night. It will be nice watch, especially against less talented opponents, with that no-ball screen heavy movement offense. It will work wonders on less talented players that will develop and help them make plays and make them look better by putting pressure on opponents. It will come handy in spring when NIL money becomes a factor.
If you watched Miami last season, you know what happened. Without ball screens to create separation, their drivers often collided into wall-off paint coverages. This led to a ton of bricked shots and bad spacing. Because Heat was playing at such an exhausting pace, these bad misses turned into long rebounds and immediate track meets going the other way, testing already bad transition defense. Opponents ran directly down the Heat's throats. Playing a "zero-play" offense requires continuous, almost frantic cutting and re-spacing from all 5 players. When opponents adjusted, Miami’s players lacked the stamina to maintain both that offensive pace and their standard, high-energy defensive closeouts. They looked slow out on the perimeter, giving up big scoring nights to elite ball-handlers and scoring guards who feasted on lazy, delayed contests that came out of fatigue. In the end, like i mentioned above, silver lining from last season from Heat were exactly those players nobody expected to do as good - Jaquez and Pelle Larson while their "stars" struggled to find real chemistry and faced some chemistry and injury issues between them.
This is when things get interesting. When only option to gain offensive advantage is off-the-dribble, your best players will tend to overdribble and take contested shots late in the clock once they face decent defenders. You'd think it would be hard to stop and would require some generational defensive plan but it wont take that much. Teams will stay home on shooters and wont over-help from the wing defenders, just stunts. Some teams will be sagging one-on-one coverage against Andrej, without getting beaten off the dribble (easier said than done, but the some teams will have the right personnel), and late paint help by their bigs - only when the Illini drivers commit for the lay-up. As a result, the primary weapon of every drive and kick offense - the kick for a 3-point shot - will be limited. The ball wont move as good as you would like, and most of the shots will be tough, off the dribble, and contested.
Whole Larry Bird comp they threw at David Mirkovic is just poor and wont age well. Not because David isnt talented but because its just limiting his game to ISO basketball and drive & kicks. Guy that showed his versatility and ability to be used on multiple ways such in PnR as both handler and roller, pop threat, cutter, elbow and post threat, as well as offensive rebound threat is exactly what made him ranked so high and dangerous players in preseason despite not even playing in preseason because of injury. Simply said, this smells like mismanagement.
Rebounding might also become an issue for you guys, despite having size this could kill opportunities for offensive rebounds. OREBs helped you guys win some games and possession battles that ended up going in your favor. Because this offense weaponizes a 5-out style to pull opposing bigs out of the paint, when shots go up your players will also be spaced out, but not like it was last season. On the defensive glass, running at such a high tempo will force cross-matches in transition. Instead of traditional box-outs, your guards and wings will be often caught trying to check larger players on the block. Coleman is already elite rebounder for a guard, but you cant rely on him as a freshman to check bigger players night after night w/o getting in foul trouble. This could lead to rebounding troubles that will make some games that could be seen as "easy" on paper to become harder than expected.
In (not so) short, the no-ball-screen offense requires a serious physical tax. Once the easy buckets dry up, Illini might be left playing a track-style game with a roster built for a half-court basketball that eventually led them to success. True, there are no Wagler anymore but most of the other players are there from same run and probably it would require less adjustment and chemistry to build up for new offense.
Agree. Said i was concerned about not seeing Vaaks in ball screens (amongst other concerns) and got roasted for it. With his height and quick, high release he and Tomi should be unstoppable in PnR, even if Vaaks is only half the processor that Keaton was.Yeah, color me skeptical as well. I much prefer using the ball screen to gain the initial advantage rather than counting on 1v1 attacks. Most of my excitement about Vaaks was getting him in PnR with a ton of space around him, but now we're not going to use ball screens? Seems like a weird idea to me, but I think the Underwoods have earned some benefit of the doubt, so we'll see how it goes.
There does seem to be a negative relationship between increased pace, and points per possession allowed defensively:An extremely frenetic paced offense does leave you vulnerable as a defense, so I agree wholeheartedly there.
The more baby-hooks they shoot, the better. However, against Houston, Tomi had some nice baby-hooks, in addition to some big 3-pointers down the stretch to dismantle them. I'll take a nice balance knowing BU wants his bigs to shoot 3-pointers.I can't understand how a coach very seldom has our two seven footers around the offensive basket when they shoot 83 and 71 percent on two point attempts.
"Last season, the Illini scored 1.25 points per possession. Ken Pomeroy has the oldest database in college basketball for tracking scoring on a per-possession basis; it goes back to the 1996-97 season, and the Illini’s points per possession was the highest in that time."
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
Brad keeps talking about his long term basketball career and health. I think we need to very realistically consider the possibility that Mirk could play a very abbreviated stretch of the season (if at all).
It’s very clear they attempted a fairly aggressive timetable by getting Mirk out of the boot by September less than 2 months post-surgery.
He was in the boot for 7 weeks initially. If we apply those same 7 weeks again now that takes you through mid-December before he’s out of it again. You then have to ramp him up through many levels of intensity. I’d say at least a month. So we might be fortunate to get him back by January.
And at any point in that rehab journey there could be another setback if the foot doesn’t respond well to a 250lb human being running, pivoting, bodying other players, jumping, landing, etc. That's clearly what happened in the last 10 days.
It would serve the team to completely recalibrate expectations. This will be a team that will have to dig deep and battle to beat any top 25 opponent (see: Baylor). And is susceptible to a let-down conference game against anyone not named Northwestern or Penn State.
I studied and work in finance. If we were to apply the concept that the value of a stock is based on its future expected cash flows. Our 26’-27’ stock has only been declining since August 1st with major dead cat bounces when Mirk got out of the boot (Sep) and finished an oop (Oct). I don’t think the stock has found its floor / lower resistance level. This recent Black Friday pushed the stock to its lowest level of the preseason.
The stock could recover with a win @ TTU. But for it to return to the price level of July 31st we would need to pull off a miraculous heist at Cameron.
I only present this stock metaphor to encapsulate the feelings that I imagine have been lurking in the corners of peoples’ minds since early August.
Even prior to Mirk’s injury there was a questions on this team’s defensive capabilities, Andrej’s shooting, Tomi / Z effectiveness vs. premier 5-men (Z could barely stay on the court vs. Mara and Tarris late last year and Tomi can barely play 30min let alone more), etc.
We’ve seen preseason rankings mean jack all. UNC few years ago and Purdue recently come to mind of overrated #1s.
Losses away to TTU and Duke and unconvincing home wins vs. minnows could see us fall to being a fringe top 25 team entering the game vs. UConn.
Different philosophies for people in life. Pessimists get a bad rap. But some of us are just embodying the formula of: Happiness = Reality minus Expectations.
- - -
The program’s rarely had this much offseason coverage in an April - October timeframe. Many of us are observant and possess critical thinking skills. I would delicately posit that it may be wise to severely lower expectations for the year till proven otherwise at Duke or vs. UConn.
I took the January or March “slip” in context as in when he’s playing during those months he doesn’t want to rush Mirk through his healing process and reinjur the foot. As the insiders have continually stated. Late November-December return
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
Brad keeps talking about his long term basketball career and health. I think we need to very realistically consider the possibility that Mirk could play a very abbreviated stretch of the season (if at all).
It’s very clear they attempted a fairly aggressive timetable by getting Mirk out of the boot by September less than 2 months post-surgery.
He was in the boot for 7 weeks initially. If we apply those same 7 weeks again now that takes you through mid-December before he’s out of it again. You then have to ramp him up through many levels of intensity. I’d say at least a month. So we might be fortunate to get him back by January.
And at any point in that rehab journey there could be another setback if the foot doesn’t respond well to a 250lb human being running, pivoting, bodying other players, jumping, landing, etc. That's clearly what happened in the last 10 days.
It would serve the team to completely recalibrate expectations. This will be a team that will have to dig deep and battle to beat any top 25 opponent (see: Baylor). And is susceptible to a let-down conference game against anyone not named Northwestern or Penn State.
I studied and work in finance. If we were to apply the concept that the value of a stock is based on its future expected cash flows. Our 26’-27’ stock has only been declining since August 1st with major dead cat bounces when Mirk got out of the boot (Sep) and finished an oop (Oct). I don’t think the stock has found its floor / lower resistance level. This recent Black Friday pushed the stock to its lowest level of the preseason.
The stock could recover with a win @ TTU. But for it to return to the price level of July 31st we would need to pull off a miraculous heist at Cameron.
I only present this stock metaphor to encapsulate the feelings that I imagine have been lurking in the corners of peoples’ minds since early August.
Even prior to Mirk’s injury there was a questions on this team’s defensive capabilities, Andrej’s shooting, Tomi / Z effectiveness vs. premier 5-men (Z could barely stay on the court vs. Mara and Tarris late last year and Tomi can barely play 30min let alone more), etc.
We’ve seen preseason rankings mean jack all. UNC few years ago and Purdue recently come to mind of overrated #1s.
Losses away to TTU and Duke and unconvincing home wins vs. minnows could see us fall to being a fringe top 25 team entering the game vs. UConn.
Different philosophies for people in life. Pessimists get a bad rap. But some of us are just embodying the formula of: Happiness = Reality minus Expectations.
- - -
The program’s rarely had this much offseason coverage in an April - October timeframe. Many of us are observant and possess critical thinking skills. I would delicately posit that it may be wise to severely lower expectations for the year till proven otherwise at Duke or vs. UConn.
What you're saying is that Brad is lying about the "no setback" commentary. Normally, I don't use strong terms like that, but in this case, he's full of it. Lol
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
Brad keeps talking about his long term basketball career and health. I think we need to very realistically consider the possibility that Mirk could play a very abbreviated stretch of the season (if at all).
It’s very clear they attempted a fairly aggressive timetable by getting Mirk out of the boot by September less than 2 months post-surgery.
He was in the boot for 7 weeks initially. If we apply those same 7 weeks again now that takes you through mid-December before he’s out of it again. You then have to ramp him up through many levels of intensity. I’d say at least a month. So we might be fortunate to get him back by January.
And at any point in that rehab journey there could be another setback if the foot doesn’t respond well to a 250lb human being running, pivoting, bodying other players, jumping, landing, etc. That's clearly what happened in the last 10 days.
It would serve the team to completely recalibrate expectations. This will be a team that will have to dig deep and battle to beat any top 25 opponent (see: Baylor). And is susceptible to a let-down conference game against anyone not named Northwestern or Penn State.
I studied and work in finance. If we were to apply the concept that the value of a stock is based on its future expected cash flows. Our 26’-27’ stock has only been declining since August 1st with major dead cat bounces when Mirk got out of the boot (Sep) and finished an oop (Oct). I don’t think the stock has found its floor / lower resistance level. This recent Black Friday pushed the stock to its lowest level of the preseason.
The stock could recover with a win @ TTU. But for it to return to the price level of July 31st we would need to pull off a miraculous heist at Cameron.
I only present this stock metaphor to encapsulate the feelings that I imagine have been lurking in the corners of peoples’ minds since early August.
Even prior to Mirk’s injury there was a questions on this team’s defensive capabilities, Andrej’s shooting, Tomi / Z effectiveness vs. premier 5-men (Z could barely stay on the court vs. Mara and Tarris late last year and Tomi can barely play 30min let alone more), etc.
We’ve seen preseason rankings mean jack all. UNC few years ago and Purdue recently come to mind of overrated #1s.
Losses away to TTU and Duke and unconvincing home wins vs. minnows could see us fall to being a fringe top 25 team entering the game vs. UConn.
Different philosophies for people in life. Pessimists get a bad rap. But some of us are just embodying the formula of: Happiness = Reality minus Expectations.
- - -
The program’s rarely had this much offseason coverage in an April - October timeframe. Many of us are observant and possess critical thinking skills. I would delicately posit that it may be wise to severely lower expectations for the year till proven otherwise at Duke or vs. UConn.
Yeah, starting to get the feeling we may not see Mirk this year. Feels like Jayshon Platt on the football side. Heal up and he can still come back next year.
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
Brad keeps talking about his long term basketball career and health. I think we need to very realistically consider the possibility that Mirk could play a very abbreviated stretch of the season (if at all).
It’s very clear they attempted a fairly aggressive timetable by getting Mirk out of the boot by September less than 2 months post-surgery.
He was in the boot for 7 weeks initially. If we apply those same 7 weeks again now that takes you through mid-December before he’s out of it again. You then have to ramp him up through many levels of intensity. I’d say at least a month. So we might be fortunate to get him back by January.
And at any point in that rehab journey there could be another setback if the foot doesn’t respond well to a 250lb human being running, pivoting, bodying other players, jumping, landing, etc. That's clearly what happened in the last 10 days.
It would serve the team to completely recalibrate expectations. This will be a team that will have to dig deep and battle to beat any top 25 opponent (see: Baylor). And is susceptible to a let-down conference game against anyone not named Northwestern or Penn State.
I studied and work in finance. If we were to apply the concept that the value of a stock is based on its future expected cash flows. Our 26’-27’ stock has only been declining since August 1st with major dead cat bounces when Mirk got out of the boot (Sep) and finished an oop (Oct). I don’t think the stock has found its floor / lower resistance level. This recent Black Friday pushed the stock to its lowest level of the preseason.
The stock could recover with a win @ TTU. But for it to return to the price level of July 31st we would need to pull off a miraculous heist at Cameron.
I only present this stock metaphor to encapsulate the feelings that I imagine have been lurking in the corners of peoples’ minds since early August.
Even prior to Mirk’s injury there was a questions on this team’s defensive capabilities, Andrej’s shooting, Tomi / Z effectiveness vs. premier 5-men (Z could barely stay on the court vs. Mara and Tarris late last year and Tomi can barely play 30min let alone more), etc.
We’ve seen preseason rankings mean jack all. UNC few years ago and Purdue recently come to mind of overrated #1s.
Losses away to TTU and Duke and unconvincing home wins vs. minnows could see us fall to being a fringe top 25 team entering the game vs. UConn.
Different philosophies for people in life. Pessimists get a bad rap. But some of us are just embodying the formula of: Happiness = Reality minus Expectations.
- - -
The program’s rarely had this much offseason coverage in an April - October timeframe. Many of us are observant and possess critical thinking skills. I would delicately posit that it may be wise to severely lower expectations for the year till proven otherwise at Duke or vs. UConn.
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
What you're saying is that Brad is lying about the "no setback" commentary. Normally, I don't use strong terms like that, but in this case, he's full of it. Lol
In no world is going from practicing with the team to not practicing, being back in a boot and using a scooter not a setback and a major one.
Bret was pretty straightforward and transparent about Jayshon Platt, and the “setback” he suffered.I'm not sure why he's acting like this was the initial plan. The media, the fans, other coaches, etc don't believe this for a second because it's ridiculous. Maybe he doesn't want our national ranking to drop, which ig unequivocally will(and should)?
Now, I don't want to go over the edge and say that it won't be until 2027, but mid December seems like a very real possibility.
It is. Now that I listen to his actual quote vs just read it..... we're not seeing Mirk for a long while.This is so disappointing....
Hmm I didn’t read Brad’s quote that way. It sounded like he was identifying January and March as key points in the season when he needs to be 100%. Being 100% in January, when the gauntlet is going would imply being in game shape by then
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
Brad keeps talking about his long term basketball career and health. I think we need to very realistically consider the possibility that Mirk could play a very abbreviated stretch of the season (if at all).
It’s very clear they attempted a fairly aggressive timetable by getting Mirk out of the boot by September less than 2 months post-surgery.
He was in the boot for 7 weeks initially. If we apply those same 7 weeks again now that takes you through mid-December before he’s out of it again. You then have to ramp him up through many levels of intensity. I’d say at least a month. So we might be fortunate to get him back by January.
And at any point in that rehab journey there could be another setback if the foot doesn’t respond well to a 250lb human being running, pivoting, bodying other players, jumping, landing, etc. That's clearly what happened in the last 10 days.
It would serve the team to completely recalibrate expectations. This will be a team that will have to dig deep and battle to beat any top 25 opponent (see: Baylor). And is susceptible to a let-down conference game against anyone not named Northwestern or Penn State.
I studied and work in finance. If we were to apply the concept that the value of a stock is based on its future expected cash flows. Our 26’-27’ stock has only been declining since August 1st with major dead cat bounces when Mirk got out of the boot (Sep) and finished an oop (Oct). I don’t think the stock has found its floor / lower resistance level. This recent Black Friday pushed the stock to its lowest level of the preseason.
The stock could recover with a win @ TTU. But for it to return to the price level of July 31st we would need to pull off a miraculous heist at Cameron.
I only present this stock metaphor to encapsulate the feelings that I imagine have been lurking in the corners of peoples’ minds since early August.
Even prior to Mirk’s injury there was a questions on this team’s defensive capabilities, Andrej’s shooting, Tomi / Z effectiveness vs. premier 5-men (Z could barely stay on the court vs. Mara and Tarris late last year and Tomi can barely play 30min let alone more), etc.
We’ve seen preseason rankings mean jack all. UNC few years ago and Purdue recently come to mind of overrated #1s.
Losses away to TTU and Duke and unconvincing home wins vs. minnows could see us fall to being a fringe top 25 team entering the game vs. UConn.
Different philosophies for people in life. Pessimists get a bad rap. But some of us are just embodying the formula of: Happiness = Reality minus Expectations.
- - -
The program’s rarely had this much offseason coverage in an April - October timeframe. Many of us are observant and possess critical thinking skills. I would delicately posit that it may be wise to severely lower expectations for the year till proven otherwise at Duke or vs. UConn.
I don’t think it’s absurd. There’s nothing wrong with a doctor wanting to see more evidence of healing post surgery, even after Mirk’s already been out of the boot doing Mirk things. The dude was dunking! He looks to be recovering really well. If going back in the boot and on the scooter allows for more healing and adds an extra layer of caution, sweet! Do it!Bret was pretty straightforward and transparent about Jayshon Platt, and the “setback” he suffered.
I’m not sure why Brad’s so hesitant to do the same. Clearly no one believes him, nor should they. It’s absurd to somehow claim that going from: practicing, dunking, walking completely normal at media days —> in a boot and on a scooter, isn’t some form of a setback and everything’s gone according to plan.
Eh I don't think it's either really, I took it as he's saying they don't want to ramp him up fully now since he's showing signs that it's not bothering him, have him play half or the full season, just to find out in January or March (when it's crunch time) that the screw is messed up and he would need surgery again, all because they jumped the gun during the healing process.Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
That is my concern. He was dunking on Oct. 16th and a week later he is back in a boot almost 3 months after the original injury. Unless a good explanation is given, which has yet to occur, people are going to assume the worst.I don’t think it’s absurd. There’s nothing wrong with a doctor wanting to see more evidence of healing post surgery, even after Mirk’s already been out of the boot doing Mirk things. The dude was dunking! He looks to be recovering really well. If going back in the boot and on the scooter allows for more healing and adds an extra layer of caution, sweet! Do it!
BU used a lot of words and I have no idea what any of it meant. All I could do is laugh at how much he danced around saying anything direct or specific.
Brad literally said January or March with regard to Mirk being back to a full 100. Not everything is a Freudian slip. But still very concerning.
Brad keeps talking about his long term basketball career and health. I think we need to very realistically consider the possibility that Mirk could play a very abbreviated stretch of the season (if at all).
It’s very clear they attempted a fairly aggressive timetable by getting Mirk out of the boot by September less than 2 months post-surgery.
He was in the boot for 7 weeks initially. If we apply those same 7 weeks again now that takes you through mid-December before he’s out of it again. You then have to ramp him up through many levels of intensity. I’d say at least a month. So we might be fortunate to get him back by January.
And at any point in that rehab journey there could be another setback if the foot doesn’t respond well to a 250lb human being running, pivoting, bodying other players, jumping, landing, etc. That's clearly what happened in the last 10 days.
It would serve the team to completely recalibrate expectations. This will be a team that will have to dig deep and battle to beat any top 25 opponent (see: Baylor). And is susceptible to a let-down conference game against anyone not named Northwestern or Penn State.
I studied and work in finance. If we were to apply the concept that the value of a stock is based on its future expected cash flows. Our 26’-27’ stock has only been declining since August 1st with major dead cat bounces when Mirk got out of the boot (Sep) and finished an oop (Oct). I don’t think the stock has found its floor / lower resistance level. This recent Black Friday pushed the stock to its lowest level of the preseason.
The stock could recover with a win @ TTU. But for it to return to the price level of July 31st we would need to pull off a miraculous heist at Cameron.
I only present this stock metaphor to encapsulate the feelings that I imagine have been lurking in the corners of peoples’ minds since early August.
Even prior to Mirk’s injury there was a questions on this team’s defensive capabilities, Andrej’s shooting, Tomi / Z effectiveness vs. premier 5-men (Z could barely stay on the court vs. Mara and Tarris late last year and Tomi can barely play 30min let alone more), etc.
We’ve seen preseason rankings mean jack all. UNC few years ago and Purdue recently come to mind of overrated #1s.
Losses away to TTU and Duke and unconvincing home wins vs. minnows could see us fall to being a fringe top 25 team entering the game vs. UConn.
Different philosophies for people in life. Pessimists get a bad rap. But some of us are just embodying the formula of: Happiness = Reality minus Expectations.
- - -
The program’s rarely had this much offseason coverage in an April - October timeframe. Many of us are observant and possess critical thinking skills. I would delicately posit that it may be wise to severely lower expectations for the year till proven otherwise at Duke or vs. UConn.