2016 Coaching Carousel

Ulysses Everett McGill · Mar 22, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
Re: Bryce Drew and Archie Miller

Can anyone name any other set of brothers who were both major college coaches? I'm blanking.

I guess the Bowden kids in football. The Ryan's, the Van Gundy's, the Harbaugh's, the Shula's.

Soon to be Bobby and Danny Hurley it seems like.

But have two brothers both been major conference head basketball coaches yet?

Not sure what's "major" but in addition to the Millers, Drews, and Hurleys, there currently are the Verlins (at Idaho and Pacific) and the Jones (at Boston U. and Yale). FWIW, I sure didn't know this; just googled it.

freebird6 · Mar 22, 2016

IIRC wasn't Jaime Dixon's sister the coach at Army? Not sure how many brother/sister combos there are to add to this.

Ulysses Everett McGill · Mar 22, 2016

Shuttlesworth said:
I love Bryce Drew and I fully expect the Rev to stay behind for the head job at Valpo, if it came to that. If he came that'd be a huge bonus.

Also I don't think anyone said it's terrible to suggest better candidates than Drew. It's just terrible to suggest Groce was better than him in the mid-major level.[/QUOTE]

Which in itself is irrelevant to the question of who should replace Groce IF he is canned. *

JMO, but in replacing Groce with Bryce we'd be settling. I don't see Whitman as a settler, and if/when the time comes to dismiss JG I believe he'll be aiming higher. Though many here have advocated dropping Groce fast so we don't let Drew "get away", I'm not seeing that as a major or even minor concern for JW.

* Also irrelevant to the same question are the facts that Bryce Drew's father and brother are/were coaches, that the Rev is on Bryce's current staff, that Bryce once hit a famous shot in the tourney, and that Bryce played in the NBA.

Ulysses Everett McGill · Mar 22, 2016

ChiCityHoops34 said:
You won't find many lists having Illinois as a job outside the top 20 in college basketball, if any.

I just want to get back to having that level of expectation in place when talking about who is in control of that ship. Everyone is so set on Groce and it doesn't make sense to me.

Top 20 jobs cakewalk into the tourney. Meanwhile, Nebraska and Penn State just had more big 10 wins than us this year in Groce's fourth year can we realize where we are please.

Wouldn't have found Illinois in the top 20 list for college FB up to a couple weeks ago either (and may not even now). But that new hire made a splash and created a buzz, and I'm betting JW will at least try for something similar after next season if JG hasn't sufficiently righted the ship.

Gomers Pile · Mar 23, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
Hey bruh come hang with me.

- one man in the wilderness beating the drum for Cuonzo Martin

Beat the drum for Martin and you'll probably continue to be one man .

mattcoldagelli · Mar 23, 2016

dsboyce said:
Would we fire a coach in part due to player conduct and then hire a coach who has had an issue with assistant conduct? Unlikely.

Setting aside the specifics of these particular cases, that's apples to oranges. Assistant coaches are adults. Broadly speaking, I think it's much harder to hold head coaches responsible for what they do vs. the players.

Bomb Squad 217 · Mar 23, 2016

chief2007 said:
I think he will try and make a splash now if he can hire his candidate.

I Bet he doesn't. Jg is and will continue to be our head coach. Including after next season, barring some catastrophe of a year.

mattcoldagelli · Mar 23, 2016

Gomers Pile said:
Beat the drum for Martin and you'll probably continue to be one man .

Just to be clear, it's not only Martin. I'm big tent on this one.

ChiCityHoops34 · Mar 23, 2016

I would take Cuonzo over Groce but not winning a tourney game with two top 10 picks in the NBA draft has to make you weary.

RichBradIllini · Mar 23, 2016

ChiCityHoops34 said:
I would take Cuonzo over Groce but not winning a tourney game with two top 10 picks in the NBA draft has to make you weary.

Also, had a top recruit decommit in the last week.

Butkuser · Mar 23, 2016

Bomb Squad 217 said:
I Bet he doesn't. Jg is and will continue to be our head coach. Including after next season, barring some catastrophe of a year.

Would not making the dance qualify as a catastrophe? That's where I am. I don't want to necessarily go through the process of a reset again, but I really do trust JW to get someone good if it needs to be done. I just don't think improvement is enough for next year, we can't be on the bubble and just miss. But, that's just the view of a cantakerous, middle-aged guy who remembers better days.

HeartofaChampion · Mar 23, 2016

Butkuser said:
Would not making the dance qualify as a catastrophe? That's where I am. I don't want to necessarily go through the process of a reset again, but I really do trust JW to get someone good if it needs to be done. I just don't think improvement is enough for next year, we can't be on the bubble and just miss. But, that's just the view of a cantakerous, middle-aged guy who remembers better days.

If JG misses the Dance 4 straight years, JW will hand him his walking papers the day after we lose in the BTT.

Foggy Notion · Mar 23, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
Setting aside the specifics of these particular cases, that's apples to oranges. Assistant coaches are adults. Broadly speaking, I think it's much harder to hold head coaches responsible for what they do vs. the players.

I would argue the opposite. It's generally easier to predict adult behavior than teenager behavior.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 23, 2016

HeartofaChampion said:
If JG misses the Dance 4 straight years, JW will hand him his walking papers the day after we lose in the BTT.

He had darned well better

BlindLoyalty · Mar 23, 2016

Metro East native, Cuonzo Martin doesn't have an employment k at California. He is currently employed under the terms of his 2014 offer sheet at $1.9M/year. A prospective employer would not have to cover a buyout and Martin can leave at his convenience.

Bomb Squad 217 · Mar 23, 2016

Butkuser said:
Would not making the dance qualify as a catastrophe? That's where I am. I don't want to necessarily go through the process of a reset again, but I really do trust JW to get someone good if it needs to be done. I just don't think improvement is enough for next year, we can't be on the bubble and just miss. But, that's just the view of a cantakerous, middle-aged guy who remembers better days.

Yes. With a healthy roster next year, if we don't make the tournament, that would be horrible and he would be gone.

mattcoldagelli · Mar 23, 2016

Foggy Notion said:
I would argue the opposite. It's generally easier to predict adult behavior than teenager behavior.

Eh, but as a coach, part of the sell you're making to players and parents is that you'll be a kind of a stand-in parent while their son is on campus.

Making sure your assistant doesn't act like a lout is farther removed from the job description.

Butkuser · Mar 23, 2016

HeartofaChampion said:
If JG misses the Dance 4 straight years, JW will hand him his walking papers the day after we lose in the BTT.

Would he walk right onto the court? Might be a good reason to buy a ticket.

HeartofaChampion · Mar 23, 2016

Bomb Squad 217 said:
Yes. With a healthy roster next year, if we don't make the tournament, that would be horrible and he would be gone.

Healthy roster or not, if we miss the tourney for 4 straight years, JG will be gone.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 23, 2016

ChiCityHoops34 said:
Just curious as to why the same standards aren't held for Groce. We should expect more out of this program.

Weber's fall was much more dramatic and from a much higher height.

The sad truth is, Groce doesn't receive as much scrutiny because there aren't as many passionate fans around to scrutinize anymore.

Foggy Notion · Mar 23, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
Eh, but as a coach, part of the sell you're making to players and parents is that you'll be a kind of a stand-in parent while their son is on campus.

Making sure your assistant doesn't act like a lout is farther removed from the job description.

I disagree entirely. The assistants also act as stand-in parents, and it is the head coach's responsibility to hire the assistants. Adult assistants are role models and should absolutely be held to higher standards than student athletes.

mattcoldagelli · Mar 23, 2016

Foggy Notion said:
Adult assistants are role models and should absolutely be held to higher standards than student athletes.

No disagreement there. That's different than saying any personal transgressions the assistants make fall at the feet of the head coach. Fair or not, I just don't think that's the way it's perceived.

IlliniBrave75 · Mar 23, 2016

Jeremy Werner Retweeted

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 28m28 minutes ago
Been told by multiple sources Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin and UNLV are headed in the direction of a marriage. Talks still ongoing, though.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Mar 23, 2016

ChiCityHoops34 said:
I'm not asking this to make a Weber vs. Groce argument simply asking to understand the support for Groce.

I don't think I've been a fan of a team with a coach more scrutinized than Weber was. He was 24 games over .500 in big 10 play.

He was 30 games over .500 in the Big Ten after his first 3 seasons. With Bill Self's players.

Missed the tournament 3 times total in his tenure compared to Groce missing it 3 straight years.

All of Weber's misses were in his last 5 seasons.

Just curious as to why the same standards aren't held for Groce. We should expect more out of this program.

I think they are. He's got 1 year to prove himself or he'll be shown the door just as Weber was.

Foggy Notion · Mar 23, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
No disagreement there. That's different than saying any personal transgressions the assistants make fall at the feet of the head coach. Fair or not, I just don't think that's the way it's perceived.

I have no idea how recruits would perceive any of it. A player just decommitted from Cal because the fired assistant was the one who recruited him, so apparently the allegations didn't bother him that much. However, if one is going to blame the coach for other people's transgressions, it is more reasonable in the case of an adult assistant than that of a teenager.