I don't see a single thing justifying that belief, unless you think coaching at Missouri State is somehow indicative of something. Worse job, worse conference, less money, no ties to either school, etc. I really don't see why your implication would be true.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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I don't see a single thing justifying that belief, unless you think coaching at Missouri State is somehow indicative of something. Worse job, worse conference, less money, no ties to either school, etc. I really don't see why your implication would be true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeoUitsdq98
For anyone who says Greg Marshall.... Uh, no thanks... Completely nuts
For anyone who says Greg Marshall.... Uh, no thanks... Completely nuts
I've been waiting for someone to write this article explaining Groce's coaching failure and McColley nails it: The Option
I came to the same conclusion earlier this year watching a video of Groce coach his players on defensive concepts. Tooooooo complicated.
I came to the same conclusion earlier this year watching a video of Groce coach his players on defensive concepts. Tooooooo complicated.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
You don't think they'll end up upset when Cuonzo picks us over them?
I haven't checked the history, but maybe he's implying that Cuonzo would be a bad hire for us, so ultimately we'd "lose." Not that Cuonzo would pick Mizzou over us.
OrangeAndBlues
- Indianapolis
If this is the case, it makes me feel hopeful that he can figure it out and simplify his system... somewhere else. I really like Groce, despite how badly I want him gone, and would love to see him find success.
I have it on good authority that Bobby Knight wants to get back into coaching. At his age, the chairs will be far to heavy to be thrown, plus, with the addition of beer sales in the SFC, he'll be asleep half the time while coaching.
Just hire Dee Brown as his assistant to run the show and we'll all have a Merry Christmas.
Just hire Dee Brown as his assistant to run the show and we'll all have a Merry Christmas.
Yikes...that's ugly.
Good share....I've heard his personality is abrasive which made me wonder how he'd do at Illinois...but this behavior seems too much for me.
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Over the course of this thread, I think I've been convinced of a couple of things:
1. Seems like we need a new coach.
2. I don't think much of hiring Cuonzo Martin, strikes me as a "meh" hire.
3. We are not going to get Gregg Marshall, he is waiting for a vacancy in a Blue Blood...very possibly IU if Crean is let go in the next couple of years.
4. I think there are two really good choices, Keatts and Miller.
I'm sure there are other coaches out there who a good AD (like ours) can find, but I really like the idea of the two mentioned. Both are young, have good track records, and look like they can actually coach the game!
I say we go hard for these guys. It seems like both Thomas and Groce suffered from the same problem, they went for home runs instead of looking at what was attainable and would have improved our situation, then they settled.
Neither Miller or Keatts would be settling, and, at worst, may be the Glynn Watson to our Jaylon Tate in terms of coaches. At best, we may have found our next Kruger or Self.
1. Seems like we need a new coach.
2. I don't think much of hiring Cuonzo Martin, strikes me as a "meh" hire.
3. We are not going to get Gregg Marshall, he is waiting for a vacancy in a Blue Blood...very possibly IU if Crean is let go in the next couple of years.
4. I think there are two really good choices, Keatts and Miller.
I'm sure there are other coaches out there who a good AD (like ours) can find, but I really like the idea of the two mentioned. Both are young, have good track records, and look like they can actually coach the game!
I say we go hard for these guys. It seems like both Thomas and Groce suffered from the same problem, they went for home runs instead of looking at what was attainable and would have improved our situation, then they settled.
Neither Miller or Keatts would be settling, and, at worst, may be the Glynn Watson to our Jaylon Tate in terms of coaches. At best, we may have found our next Kruger or Self.
Yup. It's not what you know, it's what you can teach.
It's been clear all year that our players either don't trust what they're doing or they don't fully understand it (maybe both, one can lead to the other). For a bunch of guys who have been around Groce and in this system a long time, that's a big indictment.
Lovie was never going to get another head coaching job in the NFL.
I don't know about never, but to say his stock was "so high" for NFL head coaching jobs would be untrue.
He could get any number of NFL DC jobs then or now, but we're paying him more than that.
The Lovie hire was a monster one, but what made it such a unicorn miracle was the timing. The idea of Lovie being a college head coach was surprising, but not totally out of left field. Him taking the Illinois job in March after the Cubit extension mess was.
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I'm very surprised anyone would view Cuonzo as a "meh" hire. I think he would crush it in recruiting. I don't know if he would win big ten titles right away, but he would definitely right the ship.
Anyone who thinks we get Sean Miller or equivalent is delusional. I'd love to see it but given the state of the program, people need to come back to reality.
Anyone who thinks we get Sean Miller or equivalent is delusional. I'd love to see it but given the state of the program, people need to come back to reality.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
On the topic of downplaying the Lovie hire, it truly saddens me when University of Illinois fans let bad seasons affect their confidence in the potential of the U of I and what it should achieve athletically. It is ALWAYS a bad AD, coach or other leadership position screwing it up if we aren't succeeding. Period. Period, period, period. We have too many built-in advantages to think otherwise, and the second a fan STARTS thinking otherwise, they've already given up and that's one fewer built-in advantage (in the form of a fan in a large fan base) that we have. Stop it!
ALSO: What is this "state of the program" crap?! It's not like we've sucked for three decades, dudes. After North Carolina or Kentucky fire an unsuccessful coach, are potential replacements concerned about the "state of the program" there?! Heck no! Now, are we at their level? Of course not. But we, when we have had a good coach in place, have been at the level just below them before, and that's our ceiling. Coaches know that.
ALSO: What is this "state of the program" crap?! It's not like we've sucked for three decades, dudes. After North Carolina or Kentucky fire an unsuccessful coach, are potential replacements concerned about the "state of the program" there?! Heck no! Now, are we at their level? Of course not. But we, when we have had a good coach in place, have been at the level just below them before, and that's our ceiling. Coaches know that.
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Thanks for sharing. This seems pretty darn plausible. Mark Titus (former walkon at OSU who's now a writer for The Ringer, Bill Simmons' website) back in 2012:
So the problem isn't that Groce is dumb, or that we don't have the talent, the problem is that he can't get players to execute on his system. (And we don't have off-the-charts athletes who can make up for it.) He may have success elsewhere, another time (assistant coach, head coach at a mid-major where he can recruit to fit the BB IQ he needs, or maybe someday he'll figure out how to stop things from getting lost in translation.)
I love your optimism but this job is likely less appealing now than it was when we fired Weber. We have the new renovation but I think in today's society, a lot of it is what have you done for me lately. We haven't done jack lately. Remember that last coaching search? We missed on our top targets Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart after apparently offering them a lot of $$$. Now, maybe our new AD will offer even more? Tough to say.
I'm hopeful that we get a solid up and coming coach that can right the ship. But, to think a guy like Sean Miller is licking his chops thinking about how he can return illinois to its glory days is silly. The program has potential but our last two coaches haven't been able to tap into that potential. (At least Weber didn't long term anyway). That says something.
So, a couple of NBA options that spring to mind:
Scott Skiles - Big Ten background as a player at Michigan State. He's probably done as an NBA head coach, at least for awhile. He's renowned as a guy who can develop and motivate young players. He's pitch-perfect as an NBA coach who you'd pick to be a college coach, though some of that has to do with him being a bit of a tyrant. You'd like him as the coach, but with his reputation as a tough guy to play for, would he be able to get players?
Monty Williams - Former New Orleans Pelicans Head Coach. He was absolutely beloved there and a great mentor to a young, talented team. They played together and they played hard. He doesn't have any college coaching experience but he definitely profiles as someone players would want to play for. He was chosen as an assistant on the US Olympic Team (Coach K, Boeheim, Thibs and Monty was the staff), so he's definitely someone Jerry Colangelo likes. Smart NBA people weren't in love with his coaching ability with the Hornets, but they've gotten worse with the same roster under Alvin Gentry who everyone loves, so who knows. Played at Notre Dame so there's a Midwest connection.
Lawrence Frank - Former Nets and Pistons head coach who is known as an X's and O's wizard. Was a student manager for Bobby Knight at Indiana and then an assistant to Kevin O'Neill at Marquette and Tennessee before getting into the pro game. Like Skiles, another coaches coach who got a reputation as a bit too much of a tyrant for the pro game. He's moved into the front office with the Clippers now, maybe that's the direction he wants his career to go.
Scott Skiles - Big Ten background as a player at Michigan State. He's probably done as an NBA head coach, at least for awhile. He's renowned as a guy who can develop and motivate young players. He's pitch-perfect as an NBA coach who you'd pick to be a college coach, though some of that has to do with him being a bit of a tyrant. You'd like him as the coach, but with his reputation as a tough guy to play for, would he be able to get players?
Monty Williams - Former New Orleans Pelicans Head Coach. He was absolutely beloved there and a great mentor to a young, talented team. They played together and they played hard. He doesn't have any college coaching experience but he definitely profiles as someone players would want to play for. He was chosen as an assistant on the US Olympic Team (Coach K, Boeheim, Thibs and Monty was the staff), so he's definitely someone Jerry Colangelo likes. Smart NBA people weren't in love with his coaching ability with the Hornets, but they've gotten worse with the same roster under Alvin Gentry who everyone loves, so who knows. Played at Notre Dame so there's a Midwest connection.
Lawrence Frank - Former Nets and Pistons head coach who is known as an X's and O's wizard. Was a student manager for Bobby Knight at Indiana and then an assistant to Kevin O'Neill at Marquette and Tennessee before getting into the pro game. Like Skiles, another coaches coach who got a reputation as a bit too much of a tyrant for the pro game. He's moved into the front office with the Clippers now, maybe that's the direction he wants his career to go.
The case would be "home", where Cuonzo wants to be more than any coach I've seen.
Whether Columbia would be more "home" than Champaign, only he can tell you. And it'd still have to be more home enough to overcome many other factors which would still be at play (and advantage: Illinois certainly there).
That's the whole case really. Not that I would see him picking Mizzou over the Illini.
Same job, better facilities, better administrative structure, lower expectations.
UI is a plum right now.
I dunno, I feel like a map can tell you.
It's 49 miles difference. 127 vs 176.
No way does 45 minutes of drive time to his mom's house make the difference here.
Illini4Reel
- Champaign, IL.
if you rewatch Josh Whitman's introductory press conference for the hiring of Lovie, you will see that he will bring in a top-notch basketball coach. He says that Illinois will have the best coaches in America. I just rewatched it and it truly shows that Whitman will get this right!!
While I dont think its a sure failure, I think it would be much harder for a NBA lifer HC to come into a college team and be successful, compared to a Lovie in football(though I know he had some college experience, 15+ years ago isn't really equal). I get the interest and I'm not saying its bad to postulate about them, it just doesnt seem like the kind of fit as it is in terms of football.
Curious, any names out their of guys who were at least moderately successful in the NBA with little college experience that came to the college level and were successful? Can't think of any that didn't at least have some decent college HC experience.
I get the sense that the average Joe Sixpack Illini fan has the idea that Groce is sort of a rah-rah recruiter who either a little or totally overmatched in terms of his knowledge of the X's and O's of basketball, depending on whether we won or lost the previous game.
That's a college coach archetype everyone knows. But it doesn't fit Groce well at all.
He eats, sleeps, and breathes basketball. So much so that he's tough to keep up with, even for his staff and players.
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