Even in the Midwest, Cincy and Purdue are two teams that dont have a tourney win, yet have had success.
Cincinnati won in 1961 and 1962.
Purdue, Texas, Oklahoma, us, Memphis, there are several schools with an argument.
Even in the Midwest, Cincy and Purdue are two teams that dont have a tourney win, yet have had success.
Temple, St. Johns, and BYU all have more wins and have not won a tournament.
P6 wise, yeah we are the most winningest w/o a tourney win, but not D1. Also, Texas is only a few wins behind us, so its not like we are the only high major who's won a ton of games without winning the tourney. It doesn't mean as much as you probably think.
is there a program who has recruited at our level or higher and has had worse success over the last 5 years?
Washington. Arguably LSU.
Texas has got to be on that list too I'd think.
Texas has got to be on that list too I'd think.
I disagree with this so strongly. I can't believe people think that the result we are seeing should be expected from the makeup of our roster. Recruiting is not the problem. Groce is bringing in guys who have the talent and potential to form a roster that should compete at the Top 5 of the B10 and should in the tournament close to every year. The development and progress of these players is the issue.
I'm sure this has been brought up several times on this board, but is there a program who has recruited at our level or higher and has had worse success over the last 5 years?
Texas has been better than us, but with a lot more talent.
But in any event, this is the bottom of the barrel for coaches.
Schools that get lots of Top 100 recruits make the tournament regularly. If they don't, the place to point the finger is crystal clear.
I disagree with this so strongly. I can't believe people think that the result we are seeing should be expected from the makeup of our roster.
Looking at rosters is subjective. Be careful not to be to biased. I love my StL Cardinals but if the Cubs offered to trade me their infield for ours, I'd do it in a minute. That doesn't mean I won't be rooting for the Cards this year.
We started the year with Tate and Abrams as starters. IMO that was weak. Morgan is a big you hope holds serve each night. Leron and JCL still have their best days coming. That leaves Hill. Not sure how to look at his play. Lots of foul problems and bench time. Maybe he has a better senior year if guard play was better.
Even if you fail hard here at recruiting you're going to wind up with your fair share of 4 stars.
I think you're conflating lack of development by those players, versus the talent people thought they had coming into the program.
I do think his classes are improving. Probably to little to late.
I don't know what talent people thought we had coming in. I know we thought the misses were huge. I believe we thought Tate was a token outreach. I'm pretty sure people were less than enthused on MM. Maverick's game has improved lately or there is less resistance in the paint this year.
But I'll go back to the misses were huge. I'm not defending JG. If talent was lesser and he didn't coach them up, it's still on him.
I do think his classes are improving. Probably to little to late.
And to think it was between Kyle Davis and Tate.
So, a couple of NBA options that spring to mind:
Scott Skiles - Big Ten background as a player at Michigan State. He's probably done as an NBA head coach, at least for awhile. He's renowned as a guy who can develop and motivate young players. He's pitch-perfect as an NBA coach who you'd pick to be a college coach, though some of that has to do with him being a bit of a tyrant. You'd like him as the coach, but with his reputation as a tough guy to play for, would he be able to get players?
Monty Williams - Former New Orleans Pelicans Head Coach. He was absolutely beloved there and a great mentor to a young, talented team. They played together and they played hard. He doesn't have any college coaching experience but he definitely profiles as someone players would want to play for. He was chosen as an assistant on the US Olympic Team (Coach K, Boeheim, Thibs and Monty was the staff), so he's definitely someone Jerry Colangelo likes. Smart NBA people weren't in love with his coaching ability with the Hornets, but they've gotten worse with the same roster under Alvin Gentry who everyone loves, so who knows. Played at Notre Dame so there's a Midwest connection.
Lawrence Frank - Former Nets and Pistons head coach who is known as an X's and O's wizard. Was a student manager for Bobby Knight at Indiana and then an assistant to Kevin O'Neill at Marquette and Tennessee before getting into the pro game. Like Skiles, another coaches coach who got a reputation as a bit too much of a tyrant for the pro game. He's moved into the front office with the Clippers now, maybe that's the direction he wants his career to go.
I see the point you're trying to make but please don't compare Hill to the likes of Kenny and Nick..... Not even close to the savvy, high octane play they displayed in their game.
To further your point though..... What if Henson, Kruger, Self, or even Weber were coaching this team? I think ANY of them could take this team and make the NCAA's.
Oh how I miss those days
Monty Williams is very intriguing. High character guy as I recall with midwest ties, players like him. Lovie-esque I would say. That is a route I would look at very closely.
For the Chris Mack fans, Mike Rutherford (who writes for Louisville and SB Nation CBB) is doing an AMA and said should Pitino retire, he expects Mack would be UL's first call.
I wonder if he would want a college job. There are some tragic circumstances there with his wife passing away, I'm sure he's thinking about what's best for his kids.
College is probably more hours of work, but it's also fewer days on the road.
But yeah, Monty would have the same appeal as Lovie, and as Cuonzo, a really outstanding African-American role model for our athletes to look up to.
Holy schnikeys. If Monty were interested, he would be great. I just thought he was dedicated to the NBA.
Notre Dame's recruiting class ranking is constantly in the 50s or high 40s except the class with Jackson and that doesn't count because he is gone. They are ranked 14th right now and have made the sweet 16 or elite 8 every year for like what 3 years now? 4? There's no reason we can't find a coach who can do the same.
I think if Groce makes the NCAA tournament, he's not getting fired. Just needs to finish 7-3. The rest of schedule gets pretty soft