2017 Coaching Carousel

sacraig · Feb 2, 2017

Bear8287 said:
Yeah, like it or not, Bruce Weber is a better coach than John Groce. :hurl::faint:

Weber's problem was never his pure coaching ability. He had his system. It worked extremely well on defense (usually) and well on offense when he had well-fed eloped, good players, and it worked terribly when he didn't. His probably was recruiting those players and then developing the once they got here.

Shoot, his game time coaching was fine.

ilsosbob · Feb 2, 2017

sacraig said:
Weber's problem was never his pure coaching ability. He had his system. It worked extremely well on defense (usually) and well on offense when he had well-fed eloped, good players, and it worked terribly when he didn't. His probably was recruiting those players and then developing the once they got here.

Shoot, his game time coaching was fine.

I agree, he could not recruit. Now we have a coach that can apparently recruit but doesn't have a clue on how to coach. No offense except run and shoot.
What makes being an Illinois bb fan so miserable is with Groce there is no lite at the end of the tunnel. He doesn't know how to develops talent, has no clue who should be playing, and if he has an offense it's beyond me.
Regardless of his incoming players, we have to get rid of him.
We have to fork over the money to attract the kind of coach that has high enough status to keep his recruits. That means no more mid-major or (in Groce's case high school) coaches.

FeelYourPaign · Feb 2, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
BOLD PREDICTION: Our next coach's identity turns on a game played tomorrow. If Cal beats Utah tomorrow night, Cuonzo Martin will be our next head coach. If Cal loses, he won't be.

That's perfect for ground hog day.
Will Cuonzo see his shadow or not?
How long will the Illinois "winter" be?
News at 10:00, stay tuned

IlliniKid · Feb 2, 2017

Kajagoogoo said:
I should also be clear that I'm no insider at all. I just happened to stumble upon someone that gave me info about Sean M. I passed that info onto a Chicago sportswriter I'm familiar with. He was skeptical himself, so he talked to this member of the Illini media group (also skeptical). The media group guy asked around and found out the interest is legit (both ways).

I'd still say it's highly unlikely anything comes of it. At the least, I think it shows that Whitman is shooting for the stars with this hire.

To me this just seems like one of those jokes where someone says "I found out from my third cousin twice removed who found out from his friend who's dad used to work for this guy that was in the know". Yeah that's a little bit of an exaggeration but I just find it hard to believe.

Kajagoogoo · Feb 2, 2017

IlliniKid said:
To me this just seems like one of those jokes where someone says "I found out from my third cousin twice removed who found out from his friend who's dad used to work for this guy that was in the know". Yeah that's a little bit of an exaggeration but I just find it hard to believe.

Okay. :noidea:

americanoutlaw11 · Feb 2, 2017

IlliniKid said:
To me this just seems like one of those jokes where someone says "I found out from my third cousin twice removed who found out from his friend who's dad used to work for this guy that was in the know". Yeah that's a little bit of an exaggeration but I just find it hard to believe.

Did he sell hot dogs for him?

FollowTisdale · Feb 2, 2017

Kajagoogoo said:
NC State just lost at home to Syracuse, blowing a double-digit lead with under 10:00 to go. Fans booing Gottfried as the team leaves the floor. Not good. I'll make the bold prediction they fire him and hire Archie, then Whitman lands Keatts.

You got booted off the Keatts Hype Train, stick to your Sean Miller imaginary boat ride.

Also, I was kidding about Dan Muller. ISU is playing well in a down valley year. If you watch their games, they talent advantage he has over other Valley teams this year is what's winning the games. They're defense is fun to watch, not because of schemes or coaching, but just because He might end up getting high major looks eventually, but there's like 3 coaches out of the Valley who I'd take over Muller right now, and i really don't want any of them.

OrangeAndBlues · Feb 2, 2017

FollowTisdale said:
You got booted off the Keatts Hype Train, stick to your Sean Miller imaginary boat ride.

Also, I was kidding about Dan Muller. ISU is playing well in a down valley year. If you watch their games, they talent advantage he has over other Valley teams this year is what's winning the games. They're defense is fun to watch, not because of schemes or coaching, but just because He might end up getting high major looks eventually, but there's like 3 coaches out of the Valley who I'd take over Muller right now, and i really don't want any of them.

It's the Sean Miller Submarine, thank you.

:thumb:

Golfer63 · Feb 2, 2017

Don't freak out if we do end up hiring a coach who comes from a mid major program. Keatts is technically coaching at a mid major right now. Also, Bill Self began his coaching career at Oral Roberts and Tulsa - mid majors. Kruger began his career at UT Pan American - mid major. Matta began his career at Butler - mid major, they were a good program then but not at the level they are now. Cal began his career at UMass - mid major.

My point is that just because a coach comes from a mid major doesn't automatically make him not qualified to coach at UI or at any power 5 school with a winning tradition. The whole "hiring mid major coaches results in mid major results" is just ignorant.

golferjohn1970 · Feb 2, 2017

Agree about Muller

OrangeAndBlues said:
It's the Sean Miller Submarine, thank you.

:thumb:

I like Muller but I agree the Valley is down this year and he has a good team so he is reaping the rewards of that. I'd rather have Archie Miller or Keatts over him as of right now.

OrangeAndBlues · Feb 2, 2017

golferjohn1970 said:
I like Muller but I agree the Valley is down this year and he has a good team so he is reaping the rewards of that. I'd rather have Archie Miller or Keatts over him as of right now.

Not Muller, Miller! I don't want to gamble on ISU's coach. I'm with you entirely.

golferjohn1970 · Feb 2, 2017

Our next coach most likely will come from mid-major

Golfer63 said:
Don't freak out if we do end up hiring a coach who comes from a mid major program. Keatts is technically coaching at a mid major right now. Also, Bill Self began his coaching career at Oral Roberts and Tulsa - mid majors. Kruger began his career at UT Pan American - mid major. Matta began his career at Butler - mid major, they were a good program then but not at the level they are now. Cal began his career at UMass - mid major.

My point is that just because a coach comes from a mid major doesn't automatically make him not qualified to coach at UI or at any power 5 school with a winning tradition. The whole "hiring mid major coaches results in mid major results" is just ignorant.

I completely agree I would say more then likely unless JW gets lucky by landing Drew or Sean Miller its more then likely our next coach will come from a mid-major school. I'm fine with getting a good mid-major coach we just can't settle like Thomas did with Groce. If Archie Miller is his top target he needs to get him period.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Feb 2, 2017

golferjohn1970 said:
Can I ask is Tom Crean in play possibly? I haven't read any articles that he might be fired does anyone know anything different? I know he's been on the hot seat the past few years but they were good last year and made the Sweet 16 so does that buy him at least another year after this? His contract is for at least 4 more years so that helps him too. Thoughts?

He has a press conference scheduled for tomorrow to announce he has no interest in the Illinois job.

FollowTisdale · Feb 2, 2017

golferjohn1970 said:
Can I ask is Tom Crean in play possibly? I haven't read any articles that he might be fired does anyone know anything different? I know he's been on the hot seat the past few years but they were good last year and made the Sweet 16 so does that buy him at least another year after this? His contract is for at least 4 more years so that helps him too. Thoughts?

He's not getting fired, I'd bet the farm on it. I'd also bet the farm on us hiring neither him nor Matta (if he's fired, which would be stupid by OSU but sounds like it might happen).

OrangeAndBlues · Feb 2, 2017

golferjohn1970 said:
Can I ask is Tom Crean in play possibly? I haven't read any articles that he might be fired does anyone know anything different? I know he's been on the hot seat the past few years but they were good last year and made the Sweet 16 so does that buy him at least another year after this? His contract is for at least 4 more years so that helps him too. Thoughts?

Gross. No. No, no, no. That dude has been riding lucking into Dwyane Wade his entire career. Hard pass.

ChrisNMattoon · Feb 2, 2017

Not one name has "excited me". None

LurkLongandProsper · Feb 2, 2017

OrangeAndBlues said:
Gross. No. No, no, no. That dude has been riding lucking into Dwyane Wade his entire career. Hard pass.

Well that's just not accurate.

ChrisNMattoon said:
Not one name has "excited me". None

Tough crowd, you telling me you can't find a single coaching name you'd want more than Groce? Wow.

golferjohn1970 · Feb 2, 2017

Matta won't get fired

FollowTisdale said:
He's not getting fired, I'd bet the farm on it. I'd also bet the farm on us hiring neither him nor Matta (if he's fired, which would be stupid by OSU but sounds like it might happen).

I agree I don't think Matta will get fired that would be a huge mistake by OSU he is a very good coach they are just in a down cycle this year. They will give him at least one more year.

Golfer63 · Feb 2, 2017

golferjohn1970 said:
I completely agree I would say more then likely unless JW gets lucky by landing Drew or Sean Miller its more then likely our next coach will come from a mid-major school. I'm fine with getting a good mid-major coach we just can't settle like Thomas did with Groce. If Archie Miller is his top target he needs to get him period.

Miller isn't happening. Arizona is a program that belongs in the same conversation as programs like MSU and Louisville. "The right price" doesn't lure a coach anywhere as some fans believe. If that were the case, Bill Self would currently be the head coach at Oklahoma State.

And I don't think Thomas necessarily "settled" on Groce. People like to point at his regular season record at Ohio, but his recruiting history as an assistant at tOSU was what made him an intriguing candidate. Someone who could recruit was what our fans wanted at the time because we knew Weber couldn't never lure the big names to Illinois. Groce has the ability to lure big recruits which is proven by him constantly being a finalist for those recruits. There isn't this mythical separation between coaches who can get into the top 3 and coaches who can land the recruit as some fans like to say. That's like saying that there's coaches who can get you to the Super Bowl, and coaches who can WIN the Super Bowl, which unfortunately there are casual fans out there who honestly believe that. If you are good enough to get big recruits' attention enough to be one of their finalists as quickly into your tenure as Groce was able to, then you are good enough to land those recruits. I'm not at all saying we should stick with Groce, I'm just trying to point some of the pure ignorance that casual fans like to run their mouths about because it is so annoying.

Golfer63 · Feb 2, 2017

golferjohn1970 said:
Can I ask is Tom Crean in play possibly? I haven't read any articles that he might be fired does anyone know anything different? I know he's been on the hot seat the past few years but they were good last year and made the Sweet 16 so does that buy him at least another year after this? His contract is for at least 4 more years so that helps him too. Thoughts?

Keep that clapping, spray tanned creeper as far away from our program as possible. The only reason he has had any type of success is because of the program he is at. IU isn't a blueblood, but they are a good enough program that a mediocre coach can keep them competitive on name and tradition alone.

Second and Chalmers · Feb 2, 2017

Golfer63 said:
And I don't think Thomas necessarily "settled" on Groce. People like to point at his regular season record at Ohio, but his recruiting history as an assistant at tOSU was what made him an intriguing candidate.

This is half-true. Groce was the top name on MT's list after Shaka and Stevens, so it wasn't like his hiring was the result of searching for nickels under the couch cushions. But nonetheless, Groce's resume was that of a couch cushion nickel, when there were shiny new dimes available all over the country.

Golfer63 · Feb 2, 2017

Ohio State is not going to fire Matta. If they are smart, they should pay attention to what Illinois decides to with their coaching position and if Groce gets fired, they should make him an offer to be the highest paid assistant coach in the country. After he left to coach Ohio, they're recruiting began to dip a little bit, after Jeff Boals left to coach Stony Brook, it really started to dip. They're probably wasn't a better recruiting trio in the country in the late 2000s than the trio of Matta, Groce, and Boals.

Golfer63 · Feb 2, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
This is half-true. Groce was the top name on MT's list after Shaka and Stevens, so it wasn't like his hiring was the result of searching for nickels under the couch cushions. But nonetheless, Groce's resume was that of a couch cushion nickel, when there were shiny new dimes available all over the country.

I just don't know who these shiny new dimes were outside of Smart and Stevens. The names I kept hearing were Romar from UW, Hamilton from FSU, and Grant from Alabama. I didn't like any of them because at the time both Hamilton and Romar had histories of underachieving with the talent they had at their programs. Grant ultimately was fired from Alabama, we came to Tuscaloosa for an NIT game after that and we all know what happened from there. :hurl:

Second and Chalmers · Feb 2, 2017

Golfer63 said:
I just don't know who these shiny new dimes were outside of Smart and Stevens.

Second and Chalmers said:
Chris Collins and Tim Miles are the two I was screaming about at the time. Gregg Marshall was very available at the time. Lord knows I hate him but Josh Pastner was an option. Ben Jacobson was as much on the table then as now.

You could go on and on. Scott Sutton, Blaine Taylor, Randy Rahe, etc etc etc. Groce wasn't even the best candidate in the MAC, Keith Dambrot was clearly better then and now.

Groce's resume was PROFOUNDLY poor. It can't be overstated. This is not revisionist history. This is what I said, quite overdramatically (imagine that ) at the time. Groce was Jerrance Howard if Howard had gone to a head coaching job and PROVED he wasn't a difference maker over four years.

His resume did not guarantee failure, nor did any of the better resumes I just listed guarantee success. Our next coach's resume will not guarantee success, I don't care if Whitman pulls a rabbit out of his hat and hires Sean Miller or Tony Bennett.

But I GUARANTEE that if we go into the open market we will hire a coach with a considerably stronger resume than Groce had in 2012. I promise you.

And that's just off the top of my head, 5 years down the road.

LurkLongandProsper · Feb 2, 2017

Keatts and Jeff Capel were on Evan Daniels' podcast today. Link to podcast on iTunes -- I haven't listened (yet) but may be worth listening to.