If you believe connections and recruiting skill aren't synonymous, we can just stop responding to your posts now.
Cuonzo has more midwest ties than recruiting skill, IMO :hand:
2017 Coaching Carousel
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If you believe connections and recruiting skill aren't synonymous, we can just stop responding to your posts now.
Cuonzo has more midwest ties than recruiting skill, IMO :hand:
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
No worries! Perhaps you like Monty Williams?
I point out Cuonzo and Keatts because I was responding to the original point suggesting that Cuonzo is safe/would have the program turned around quickly while Keatts may have more upside/would take longer to have the program turned around. And I'm just confused as to why people believe that (the difference in length of time to turn program around).
I believe Rozier had committed to Louisville but had to do a year at Hargrave because of grades. Don't know who recruited him to Louisville. (I can't even believe I knew this much.)
Thanks for the info. It's always tough to judge how a guy will recruit in Illinois. This might be the hardest job in terms of recruiting when you consider the mess in Chicago.
Actually, the defense did carry over the first 2-3 years of Groce's tenure. The last 2 years? One is due to injuries and this year, well that's his own fault for recruiting kids who are unathletic and don't play good defense.
By the way, I would take Randy Bennett any day over Keatts. Just saying.
I'm not saying winning the CAA 3 times in a row is even remotely close to winning a P5 conference 3 times in a row, I'm merely pointing out that he has hasn't just happened upon a conference title by luck. He's turned the program from a middle to bottom tier team into arguably the best team in the conference, without any time in between the team owning those distinctions. Just how impressive is that is obviously very subjective, and maybe its as good as he's gonna get (see my post earlier about peaking), but you have to take a chance on talents like this.
As for recruiting, google is your friend. His time at UL provided them with some extremely talented players--though I'd argue Groce's talent grab at OSU was more impressive.
It's pretty well documented that that was because of Nnanna Egwu. Our defense was better on both of those rankings in Bruce's last year than in Bruce's first year, you can attribute that to Meyers if you want, though.
And I don't know how you can say that of Randy Bennett as opposed to Keatts, seeing as Bennett's conference is also terrible outside of Gonzaga.
WCC: KenPom: 2 top 50 teams, 2 50-100 , 2 in 100-200, 4 200+
CAA: Kenpom: 0 top 50 teams, 2 50-100 teams, 4 100-200, 4 200+
After Gonzaga and Saint Mary's, those conferences are pretty similar right now.
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Sold. All aboard the Randy Bennett hype train!
OrangeAndBlues
- Indianapolis
No worries! Perhaps you like Monty Williams?
I point out Cuonzo and Keatts because I was responding to the original point suggesting that Cuonzo is safe/would have the program turned around quickly while Keatts may have more upside/would take longer to have the program turned around. And I'm just confused as to why people believe that (the difference in length of time to turn program around).
A little more interested there, yeah haha.
I just think Cuonzo and Keatts both leave a lot to be desired by a program like Illinois. Keatts is interesting but I think there is a midpoint stop somewhere bigger before he gets a B1G type job.
Keatts is a shiny new object. He looks like a high ceiling guy simply because there is no data to evaluate his ceiling. CAA data just says he's capable of beating CAA coaches. Beating B1G coaches is a whole different game and nobody knows how he will fare. I don't see anything particularly unique or special about him that screams "this guy is going to kill it in the big leagues." That's why Keatts tourney performance will determine the extent of the bidding war for him.
On the other hand, we have lots of data about how Martin will do in the big leagues and it's mixed. Therefore, we conclude low ceiling. Maybe the Sweet 16 is Cuonzo's ceiling, but maybe it isn't. We don't really know how high the ceiling is. But, we do have pretty good data about the height of the floor.
I think Whitman will lean towards the safest pair of hands he can find and will be pretty hesitant to take a big risk. A miss would be much worse than a guy who's ceiling is the Sweet 16.
On the other hand, we have lots of data about how Martin will do in the big leagues and it's mixed. Therefore, we conclude low ceiling. Maybe the Sweet 16 is Cuonzo's ceiling, but maybe it isn't. We don't really know how high the ceiling is. But, we do have pretty good data about the height of the floor.
I think Whitman will lean towards the safest pair of hands he can find and will be pretty hesitant to take a big risk. A miss would be much worse than a guy who's ceiling is the Sweet 16.
That I would disagree with. Landing Brown and Rabb takes some recruiting chops, not Midwest ties.
I think you have to stick with Miller then Counzo then Keatts. I'd stay away from Williams as I really think he'd struggle to recruit as he has never had to do it and I don't think he is a good X's and O's guy. Does Musselman interest anyone other then me? He was a good NBA assistant not so much as HC and he seems to have adjusted well to the college game the past two years. I'm sure of him as a recruiter.
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
Haha yeah, I'm definitely intrigued by the possibility of Monty.
The latter part of my post was said tongue-in-cheek, because separating recruiting connections and recruiting skill is being daft. Connections are HUGE in recruiting.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
Now be honest, did you spell that with or without google?
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
I don't know a ton about what Musselman has done coaching in NCAA, but I really enjoyed and read his blog religiously.
http://emuss.blogspot.com/ (no updates since March 2009
)To be fair, i thought up that analogy in 30 seconds, it's not perfect. Say he's dominated AA for 3 years though, the odds of a flop are much lower.
The best thing is, I really think Whitman is good enough at his job that no one knows who he has his target set on yet. Maybe he doesn't even know. The whispers you're going to hear are likely coming from agents (trying to get leverage) or donors (trying to get leverage, within the DIA).
I'd take the field vs Keatts/Cuonzo/Monty all day... but that doesn't change my mind that the Keatts Hype Train is barreling into some college and taking them to the Final Four, it might as well be Illinois.
What about Holtmann at Butler does he do anything for anyone? He is 63-27 in his 3rd year and about to go to the tourney for 3rd year in a row? Is that just residual success from Stevens or can this guy coach? He has two 4 star players for 2017 according to Rivals which isn't bad so recruiting okay as well?
Him and Groce are good friends with a ton of history coaching together. I don't think there is a chance.
Bingo bingo, he could care less what we think. We don't have all the facts
Captain Bubbles
- Fairfield, IL
I do not understand the appeal for Cuonzo Martin on here, and I don't see the appeal with the guy. I do not think he is warranted enough for a head coaching job at Illinois.
His resume speaks for itself. He has never dominated conference play, never has had much post-season success, plus he's never took a basketball program to new heights.
I don't know about the majority of you, but pencil me in as a guy who believes Cuonzo Martin should not be a coach in any capacity at Illinois.
His resume speaks for itself. He has never dominated conference play, never has had much post-season success, plus he's never took a basketball program to new heights.
I don't know about the majority of you, but pencil me in as a guy who believes Cuonzo Martin should not be a coach in any capacity at Illinois.
Duh on my part. Agreed.
Captain Bubbles
- Fairfield, IL
You can mark it down that Holtmann is not coming here. No way he leaves Butler. He has done a great job at there and is successful, as his teams are constantly ranked in the top 25 every season, and rightfully so.
Thanks, interesting insights here and worth listening to. Intriguing to think Charlie Moore could end up back in his home state, as well.
Martin as 3rd or 4th choice for JW
I agree with most of what you say about Martin but he has won wherever he has gone. The issue is that he has only stayed 3 years at any one school that makes it harder to evaluate his success. The one trend is his teams seem to improve each year that he is there and that is a good trend to see. I love the potential with Keatts it is clear this guy can coach as he has done great everywhere he has gone. Whether that translates to U of I who knows!!
I agree with most of what you say about Martin but he has won wherever he has gone. The issue is that he has only stayed 3 years at any one school that makes it harder to evaluate his success. The one trend is his teams seem to improve each year that he is there and that is a good trend to see. I love the potential with Keatts it is clear this guy can coach as he has done great everywhere he has gone. Whether that translates to U of I who knows!!
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