Question for Team Cuonzo: Everything else equal, would you still support his hire if he had not landed Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb? Same record, same tourney results etc.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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RedRocksIllini
- Morrison, CO
A strength coach is the least of our problems. In fact, I seriously hope our current strength coach stays as long as he wants.
As far as adding an assistance coach that can find something with both hands, we've been begging for that for 5 years and it ain't happening.
If you're still onboard with retaining Groce, more power to you. I don't have any idea how big a dumpster fire some people need.
On the other hand, it will be the third time in the last 6 seasons. His team did win the MVC regular season championship but did not get a tournament berth.
MVC is a one or two bid league.
Certainly, and I was not using that info to knock or boost him, simply stating it for the record as it was a topic folks were discussing.
I will say that my understanding of general fan perception is that being called on selection sunday 50% of the time is probably still below the rate people want, or more specifically, expect ("We are Illinois basketball!") to be called, especially considering both of those gigs were in better shape on his arrival than ours would be if he came here.
I think the question of who's interested & who are we interested in goes for all our candidates. From what I've read Miller & Marshall have been offered a lot of money from some pretty decent programs & seem to be very happy where they are, as they chose to stay at their present school. Chances of getting either one seem to be slim.
Is Monty, interested? Is Martin really interested? Is etc. interested? "The answer is blowing in the wind".
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
I don't like playing the "what if" game. What if Bill Self missed on Dee Brown and James Augustine? What if Tom Crean missed on Zeller and Yogi? WHAT IF John Groce landed Cliff Alexander and 1 of Snider/Evans/Brunson?
The Dave
- CA
Because Groce has shown no ability to develop players in to better versions of what they were as freshmen. If you're not going to recruit 5 NBA ready players (like KY) then you need to be able to coach them up making them physically better players and building their basketball IQ.
Is he really going to see a big uptick in talent? I think the talent evaluation of this staff is the problem. They were supposed to have that kind of talent with Lands, Jordan and DJ Williams. None of those guys have performed any near their expectations. Is this group any different? Tilmon will get some tick because of his size and presence but won't score much at all. The other freshmen can't be expected to do much either. This class isn't demonstrably better than the class of 15. Who did we out-recruit for Damonte Williams, Pickett and Frazier? It's not like they had tons of other great offers.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
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He landed them and then didn't win a tournament game with them.
This season has made me much more intolerant of excuses for why a team hasn't won or reached their full potential. I'm much more interested in results. Yes, it is impressive that Martin landed two MCDAA, but this resulted in a first round exit against HAWAII which isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse.
Until Groce is dismissed, it would be wrong for Whitman to let anyone know he is seeking a replacement.
Cal likely makes the tournament this year which would give Martin his 3rd tournament appearance in the last 4 seasons. Same as Groce :noidea:
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
NCAA tourney appearances are more of the same?
Again: TWO NCAA appearances in eight years of head coaching P5 schools. It's not like Cuonzo is regularly making the tournament. Yes, more than Groce, but EVERYONE gets there more than Groce.
EDIT: Okay, I see this answer has been provided about nine times, so carry on.
You want results? How about 262-17 over 10 years and 2 national HS championships? How about 65-27 (and counting) over 3 years following his predecessors 29-63 prior 3 years? 37-13 in conference, 2 time (and counting) conference champions?
If its results you want to get, Keatts is the bet!
KEATTS HYPE TRAIN And I'm much more interested in full seasons of performance compared to a single game. FWIW, Cuonzo does not excel there either. But he's OK.
I think you are betting on two things if you hire Martin for the Illinois job.
1. He'll excel recruiting in an area where he was raised and played.
2. He'll improve his actual coaching.
Now, maybe number 2 is something people are not interested in betting on. But the fact remains that in most professions you will hit your stride at the 10 year mark. That is why "experience" is so crucial in hiring decisions. Furthermore, if he does in fact improve as most people tend to do, he has performed at a reasonable level during the upward trend on his learning curve.
For the record, I think he's in the second tier of candidates. The guys who I will embrace but who are not the home run hires. Keatts is there too. Monty is probably in that group also.
You want results? How about 262-17 over 10 years and 2 national HS championships? How about 65-27 (and counting) over 3 years following his predecessors 29-63 prior 3 years? 37-13 in conference, 2 time (and counting) conference champions?
If its results you want to get, Keatts is the bet!
I like Keatts and am excited about his potential based on the results at UNCW. But I continue to be baffled that people bring up his HS results. It's a completely different job.
Does Whitman pull the plug after the Rutgers game or does he wait until after the B1G tournament? I think the right move is to pull the plug after the Rutgers game. Reason why is because you have a senior class that has not made the tournament in their careers. It looks like there is no way they can win the B1G tournament with Groce on the sidelines so why not pull the plug after the Rutgers game. Maybe light enough of a fire under everyone's butt to inspire them to play really well and maybe make a run in the B1G tournament.
I agree, but I also don't anticipate any of the perceived tier 1 guys jumping out of their boots to come here. I know Hoiberg has been mentioned as a tier 1, and to clarify, he is FIRMLY tier 2 for me.
After Big Ten Tournament, not a doubt. No reason to rush to fire him, it doesn't a change a thing for us anyways.
I agree with all of this. I prefer the guys I listed to Hoiberg. My tier 1 is really limited to guys who you ask just to ask. The guys we laugh about when people bring them up. Bennet, Donovan, and other guys who have had high-level success at major programs.
Below is the link to that game and interesting excerpt below...
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400871271&redirected=true
Jordan Mathews led California with 23 points, but the loss ended a week the Bears would rather forget. The Golden Bears' played without popular assistant coach Yann Hufnagel, dismissed amid allegations of sexual harassment, and leading scorer Tyrone Wallace, who broke his hand Wednesday in practice. As if the Bears (23-11) needed more obstacles, guard Jabari Bird had back spasms during warmups and never played.
Coach Cuonzo Martin said it was about 2 minutes before tip that he found out Bird was unavailable.
Considering the absences, California needed its healthy stars to be at their best and they failed. Jaylen Brown was a miserable 1-of-6 shooting, committed seven turnovers and fouled out with 6:22 left and the Bears trailing by eight. Ivan Rabb had a double-double with 13 points and 12 rebounds, but was hounded on the interior all game. The Bears were just 3 of 19 on 3-pointers, all coming from Mathews.
It could be the final game for Brown and Rabb if they decide to jump to the NBA and may bring more scrutiny to Martin's status considering the school is already reviewing his response to Hufnagel's situation.
"It was one thing to have Tyrone out, but we expected that, because he was injured," Martin said. "But two minutes before a game start time, it's tough. But you still have enough to win the game, so there's no excuses."
Yep. Tier 2 is the realistic tier 1, the tier 1 guys are all bonafide home run/grand slam types.
Cuonzo, Keatts, Williams, Hoiberg, maybe Holtmann (sample size on his resume up for debate) in tier 2, tier 1 having Bennett, Mack, Marshall, Miller and the even crazier Donovan, etc.
Deleted member 29907
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Nice post. This post pretty much sums up what I feel about much of the "stats gazers" and single game examples given. They are data points, but you have to dig deeper to know what is relevant or not. Nice digging.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
If it takes the firing of Groce to light a fire under these guys, then the failure of the past few years is just as much on them as it is on Groce.
OrangeAndBlues
- Indianapolis
Trent Frazier liked this tweet. No clue how valid it is..
mrmusicman @SURFACEMUSICINC
Source close to colangelo is saying Monty Williams has been talking with JW. Probable Done Deal @jeremiahtilmon_ @_Trentfrazier1 #illini
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That would be huge.
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