This. You can't tell me that WKU should be attracting that level of talent all of a sudden without any "help"
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This. You can't tell me that WKU should be attracting that level of talent all of a sudden without any "help"
Illini1221
Peru,IL
If Mark Few has an early exit of the Tourney I bet a lot of Zag fans would want him out? Could he be a possibility? Thoughts?
The guy basically has a cakewalk to a high seed every year, why would he leave that?
No, there's no possibility they want him out.
It wasn't that bad but it wasn't that good. He took a mess of talent (ill-gotten talent of course) and did very little of substance with it. He's not a good coach. He's in the Rick Barnes zone, but at least Barnes can get good players without cheating.
I'll take that bet
At this point, I kind of hope you're wrong. Does anyone think we could have a legit shot at Mike Brey?
Mark Few is going to have a statue built someday outside their arena. That's not even worth discussing. Never happening.
I used to say this, that the margin is so razor thin...but I think the blowout losses factor in at this point as well. We are not becoming more competitive against the top teams in our league. Instead we are becoming less competitive, a doormat like Penn State or Northwestern hats gonna beat a few teams at home, but is not a dominant home team, who will beat almost no-one on the road and who will give the real big ten teams a breather at home. We absolutely suck.
Flip two games out of every 19 from losses to wins and I'm not sure there's any coach who's ever been fired anywhere.
KenPom has a "luck" rating, ranking teams by how reflective their record is of their efficiency margin, essentially like the pythagorean W-L record in baseball. Illinois is 48th out of 351 D-1 teams. We've overperformed in close games thus far.
No reason to be 1000% sure MT wouldn't have done it anyway.
This is because what that rating is really doing is seeing what a team's record should be based on its offensive and defensive efficiency. So our best wins are mostly close but we get blown out in every loss which is why it is saying based on our team strength we should have a worse record. Same reason our RPI is much better than Kenpom or BPI rating. We were rated as the unluckiest team in 2008 as a fun fact. Based on our Kenpom we should've been a bubble team but instead we were 16-19 and 10/11 in the Big Ten.
I'm unable to view the 1991 newspaper article, but I'll take your word for it. Out of curiosity, what was the penalty for his act? It just seems that most articles about him recruiting or coaching don't mention this fact even when I do a google search of "Rick Stansbury gives money to recruit" or "Rick Stansbury NCAA sanctions."
I think he'd be better than Groce, but I guess Martin would probably fit that bill as well. Again, my original post spoke of surrounding him with top notch in game assistants as well as player developers. All of this talk is probably a moot point as I doubt he leaves a team after one season.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
I've been thinking about Keatts and what an upside he could have. Indications are that he may be both a great recruiter and a great coach, but we really don't have enough evidence to KNOW either. Of course, by the time that evidence is clear, he'll have a new contract somewhere else, if we don't get him.
Then again, if he flames out, we will be 3 or 4 years farther down the road, nay the superhighway, to obscurity.
Meanwhile, Cuonzo Martin would likely come in and recruit reasonably well, maybe even very well, and would likely have the team winning its share of games, maybe even having a great season if the recruits mesh really well. But I don't see him keeping us at the top of the Big Ten, or competing for the conference championship at all frequently -- he just hasn't done that anywhere else, even with great recruits. But he's not likely to flame out and drive the program any further into the ground. Odds are good that if we hire him now, and then eventually fire him in a few years, it will be because we've stopped making progress and need someone to further elevate us.
I guess what I'm saying is that right now -- as much as we may miss a potential diamond in the rough -- the prudent choice would be to hire a solid choice who will right the ship, get solid recruiting classes, and bring stability back, with some chance of greater upside. Once we are there, THEN we can start thinking about the next step to greater success. And at THAT point, we won't have to be looking for diamonds in the rough, we'll hopefully be able to attract established coaches with proven credentials in both recruiting and coaching.
So as much as Keatts intrigues me, Martin would be the better choice. Mussleman is probably somewhere in between -- possibly higher upside than Martin, but not as much of a known quantity.
Then again, if he flames out, we will be 3 or 4 years farther down the road, nay the superhighway, to obscurity.
Meanwhile, Cuonzo Martin would likely come in and recruit reasonably well, maybe even very well, and would likely have the team winning its share of games, maybe even having a great season if the recruits mesh really well. But I don't see him keeping us at the top of the Big Ten, or competing for the conference championship at all frequently -- he just hasn't done that anywhere else, even with great recruits. But he's not likely to flame out and drive the program any further into the ground. Odds are good that if we hire him now, and then eventually fire him in a few years, it will be because we've stopped making progress and need someone to further elevate us.
I guess what I'm saying is that right now -- as much as we may miss a potential diamond in the rough -- the prudent choice would be to hire a solid choice who will right the ship, get solid recruiting classes, and bring stability back, with some chance of greater upside. Once we are there, THEN we can start thinking about the next step to greater success. And at THAT point, we won't have to be looking for diamonds in the rough, we'll hopefully be able to attract established coaches with proven credentials in both recruiting and coaching.
So as much as Keatts intrigues me, Martin would be the better choice. Mussleman is probably somewhere in between -- possibly higher upside than Martin, but not as much of a known quantity.
Illinifanatic4ever
- Orange & Blue Blood in my Veins
Shot through the heart
And you're to blame
Groce, you give love the Illini a bad name...
An angel's smile is what you sell
You promise us victories, then put us through hell
Thoughts of Final Four's got a hold on me
But watching these games are a prison, you can't break free
Oh, oh, you're a loaded gun (yeah)
Oh, oh, there's nowhere to run
No one can save the Illini
The damage is done
[Chorus:]
Shot through the heart
And you're to blame
Groce you give the Illini bad name (bad name)
I play my part I attend the games
And you play your game oh what a shame
You give the Illini a bad name (bad name)
You give the Illini a bad name
You give the Illini a bad name
Paint your smile on your lips
Losses pile up and you make your quips
A fans dream, your still here we don't know why
Your very first loss was your first loss goodbye
Oh, oh, you're a loaded gun
Oh, oh, there's nowhere to run
No one can the Illini
The damage is done
And you're to blame
Groce, you give love the Illini a bad name...
An angel's smile is what you sell
You promise us victories, then put us through hell
Thoughts of Final Four's got a hold on me
But watching these games are a prison, you can't break free
Oh, oh, you're a loaded gun (yeah)
Oh, oh, there's nowhere to run
No one can save the Illini
The damage is done
[Chorus:]
Shot through the heart
And you're to blame
Groce you give the Illini bad name (bad name)
I play my part I attend the games
And you play your game oh what a shame
You give the Illini a bad name (bad name)
You give the Illini a bad name
You give the Illini a bad name
Paint your smile on your lips
Losses pile up and you make your quips
A fans dream, your still here we don't know why
Your very first loss was your first loss goodbye
Oh, oh, you're a loaded gun
Oh, oh, there's nowhere to run
No one can the Illini
The damage is done
I actually feel better about the names this time around as opposed to last 2 hires.
Sadly, no. I love watching his team play. They are so well-coached offensively. It's really great to watch them execute.
I agree 100%. I'm a bit of a gambler, so I might take the shot on Musselman, but Martin has the lowest floor. At this point in our program, there is a lot to be said for that. I'll also add that I think his ceiling is a bit higher than you give him credit for. He hasn't ever been anywhere long enough to really see what that ceiling is. I don't think he can turn us into a perennial Final Four contender, but I don't think having a legit shot at the second weekend every year with an occasional E8 or even F4 is out of the question. And to be fair, that's really what Illinois has always been.
Illini1221
Peru,IL
Statue for what? Most early round tournament exits?
Maybe he could. But we don't want any more "maybe"s or "We think he could be a good head coach so let's hire him". That line of thinking got us John Groce. We want "We know he is a good coach so let's hire him".
As much as we talk about Mike Thomas hires, where would we be had RG hired Matta?
John Groce was actually named the top recruiter in the country while an assistant and coached under Thad Matta. Now this is the top thread on IL!
Pass...he needs prove himself as a head coach first.
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
Jerrance will never be the head coach at Illinois. AD at Bradley was going to hire him years ago and the higher ups quickly stepped in. Red flags everywhere!!
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