2017 Coaching Carousel

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#376      
IlliniInOK
I wish that John Groce was a better coach, because in so many aspects he seems like a great guy and the kind of representative of the University that we need. However, his coaching leaves a lot to be desired and his recruiting hasn't been, and doesn't seem like it will ever be, enough to make up for those shortcomings.

As far as who I would like to coach the team in the future, my greatest desire is for a coach with a discernible system. My biggest pet peeve with the Illini offense the past few years has been that it seems to be simply a series of pick and rolls with occasional side to side ball movement. If you don't have the talent to match up with your opponent, it gets ugly quickly, which is why I believe we have seen so many blowout losses.

Recruiting-wise, I think Pickett and Damonte are solid as long as we have a decent coach. Frazier might be a bit up in the air, as it seems like his relationship with the coaches was a huge factor, but I would say that he is more likely than not to stick around as PT will be readily available for him. Tilmon could have his pick of many attractive destinations this spring if he asks out of his LOI, but with the right coach, like Frazier, he could certainly see the path to lots of PT and decide to stick around.
 
#377      
Second and Chalmers
Hoppy2105 said:
All of those folks that think an NIT bid might push JW into extending Groce should also consider that JW will need to give Groce a contract extension to not hamper recruiting.
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Yup. Important point to keep in mind. We're sinking more money into the head coaching position this offseason either way.
 
#378      
Give it to Greene
Second and Chalmers said:
There seems to be a decent amount of "Whitman doesn't understand the situation clearly and is going to make the wrong decision" sentiment around.

I think that's really a bit of a trojan horse for people actually supporting the "magic trap" plan that Newman advocated earlier, but regardless, I strenuously disagree.
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I don't buy the idea TOTALLY... It just scares me... But I'm old, and old people get scared sometimes.... :shield:

I hope it doesn't happen... But I also hoped JW had fired Groce the same day he hired Lovie... So, I just remain scared, I guess.... :(
 
#380      
zpfled
I like our roster next year, and I think any decent new coaching hire will be able to keep our 2017 class now that LOI's are signed and he'll at least have a chance to pitch them before UI would let them out of their commitment.

If Groce pulls a miracle out of his hat, great! If he does anything less...he's gotta be gone.
 
#381      
Newman
mattcoldagelli said:
People need to snap out of it a bit on this recruiting class. It's good, but it's not like we have the Fab Five coming in. Hardly breaking news, but our Chronic Bridesmaid Syndrome in basketball recruiting convinces people that not only will they all instantly disappear, but that we'all also never get recruits of this caliber again. That's baseless.

Keeping Groce for the sake of this class is total insanity.
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I don't think it's really because the class is that great, but because we would have some serious holes if we lose the top players in the class and have some players transfer out. One bright side is that it would give the new coach plenty of space to bring his players. On the other hand, if the new coach has to fill those spots with subpar recruits, that could hurt the quality of the team for a while. That being said, after some more thought and discussion, I do agree that we shouldn't hold on to Groce just to save our 2017 class. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if JW gave it some serious thought though.
 
#382      
ChiefIllini
Newman said:
I don't think it's really because the class is that great, but because we would have some serious holes if we lose the top players in the class and have some players transfer out. One bright side is that it would give the new coach plenty of space to bring his players. On the other hand, if the new coach has to fill those spots with subpar recruits, that could hurt the quality of the team for a while. That being said, after some more thought and discussion, I do agree that we shouldn't hold on to Groce just to save our 2017 class. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if JW gave it some serious thought though.
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Don't you think he already has? Like I said earlier, AD's typically like bringing in there own guys. Other than Groce's personality and vision, whats keeping JW from canning Groce? He's proved nothing other than continually deteriorating our team in terms of cohesion and player development. Heck, even at Ohio he wasn't wining 30 games a year; he had one year of more than 22 wins, and one sweet sixteen run.
 
#383      
The Pontiff
SescIllini said:
I hate unknowns, and the idea that we are going to land a coach who will turn things around immediately are not likely. ...
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Depends on your definition of a turn around. The last time Illinois made a coaching change, the very next season they won a game in the NCAAs and almost upset a #2-seed to get to the Sweet 16.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#384      
Newman
The Pontiff said:
Depends on your definition of a turn around. The last time Illinois made a coaching change, the very next season they won a game in the NCAAs and almost upset a #2-seed to get to the Sweet 16.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That coaching staff also inherited one of the best defenders to wear an Illini jersey in Egwu, DJ Richardson, Brandon Paul, a pretty decent stretch 4 in Griffey, and solid point guard in Abrams. That's as good as a lineup that you can get defensively and okay offensively. We shouldn't expect even close to that kind of success with a homerun hire or with Groce and an intact 2017 recruiting class. Groce inherited a talented team but with no depth in his first year. Probably would have been similar to what the a new coach would have received this year if Groce would have been canned at the end of last season.
 
#385      
Second and Chalmers
Newman said:
That coaching staff also inherited one of the best defenders to wear an Illini jersey in Egwu, DJ Richardson, Brandon Paul, a pretty decent stretch 4 in Griffey, and solid point guard in Abrams. That's as good as a lineup that you can get defensively and okay offensively. We shouldn't expect even close to that kind of success with a homerun hire or with Groce and an intact 2017 recruiting class. Groce inherited a talented team but with no depth in his first year. Probably would have been similar to what the a new coach would have received this year if Groce would have been canned at the end of last season.
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That's weapons grade revisionist history.

The roster was widely thought to be a wasteland when Groce got the job, with the only hope coming from the 2011 class, including Egwu and Abrams but even moreso Shaw and Henry.

We've had the talent to be a comfortable tournament team every season since 2009, and will do so in the future until at least 2019, barring defections.
 
#386      
Newman
Second and Chalmers said:
That's weapons grade revisionist history.

The roster was widely thought to be a wasteland when Groce got the job, with the only hope coming from the 2011 class, including Egwu and Abrams but even moreso Shaw and Henry.

We've had the talent to be a comfortable tournament team every season since 2009, and will do so in the future until at least 2019, barring defections.
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Did a couple of searches and Illinois was predicted to be roughly 8th in the Big Ten in the 2012-13 season previews. Not exactly a wasteland. The problem was more about the holes he would have starting the following season.
 
#387      
cjcastan
Newman said:
Did a couple of searches and Illinois was predicted to be roughly 8th in the Big Ten in the 2012-13 season previews. Not exactly a wasteland. The problem was more about the holes he would have starting the following season.
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That team went 6-12 in B1G play with a lottery pick the previous year

A lot of people thought we wouldn't see the tourney for groces first 3 years and start to see light at the end of the tunnel when the 2013 class were upperclassmen.
 
#388      
Second and Chalmers
Newman said:
Did a couple of searches and Illinois was predicted to be roughly 8th in the Big Ten in the 2012-13 season previews. Not exactly a wasteland. The problem was more about the holes he would have starting the following season.
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Like Paul and DJ and Griffey weren't blamed for being the cause of all of our problems the year Weber got fired, please :hand:
 
#389      
mattcoldagelli
Newman said:
We shouldn't expect even close to that kind of success with a homerun hire or with Groce and an intact 2017 recruiting class.
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If the dwindling diehards still posting on this board are at the point where getting a 7-seed is rare air reserved for home run hires, then the battle to keep Illinois basketball relevant may already have been lost.
 
#390      
mattcoldagelli
Second and Chalmers said:
The Ron Swanson avatar is an unfair advantage in the Cutting To The Chase battle we're having here :mad:
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#391      
Second and Chalmers
mattcoldagelli said:
If the dwindling diehards still posting on this board are at the point where getting a 7-seed is rare air reserved for home run hires, then the battle to keep Illinois basketball relevant may already have been lost.
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Seriously.

Well coached teams are defined by their strengths, poorly coached teams are defined by their weaknesses.

The tut-tutting list of reasons this team can't win that Newman provided could be doubled about a bunch of teams that get top 6 seeds every year.

There will be 20 NCAA at large teams this year that don't have our talent.

Seton Hall got a 6 seed last year with Isaiah Whitehead and a half-eaten can of dog food.
 
#392      
Vermilion Slim
In an attempt to keep all the names straight and have a little fun, I thought I’d pull out the top 20 coaching candidates for next year that I’ve heard mentioned and try to rank them each week. Obviously this is pretty rough (and super subjective) and I’d love to have feedback so I can adjust appropriately.

I just tried to rank each coach in 5 categories from 1-10 so the max score would be 50. The categories are self-explanatory (I think) accept for “other” which takes into account personality, Illinois connections, scandals, contract situations, etc.

(Also, I didn’t include folks like Gill, Mack, Random NBA assistances, etc. because I either A.) don’t think they are realistic or B.) I have no way to rate them. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, just saying it doesn’t fit my chart!)
 

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#393      
thenoodler
Among realistic candidates, Kevin Keatts, and Dan Hurley stand out to me. Archie Miller had no interest in Pitt job (his hometown), so I've little reason to believe he would jump at the Illini job. As others have noted, Ben Jacobson seems very content at Northern Iowa, and the same for Randy Bennett at St. Mary's.

Among high-major candidates, Cuonzo Martin, Buzz Williams, and Andy Enfield stand out to me, but, outside of maybe Cuonzo's Midwestern roots, there is nothing to pull them away from their current gigs.

Among the higher-risk, lower-experience types, Dana Ford intrigues me.
 
#394      
Second and Chalmers
Vermilion Slim said:
In an attempt to keep all the names straight and have a little fun, I thought I’d pull out the top 20 coaching candidates for next year that I’ve heard mentioned and try to rank them each week. Obviously this is pretty rough (and super subjective) and I’d love to have feedback so I can adjust appropriately.

I just tried to rank each coach in 5 categories from 1-10 so the max score would be 50. The categories are self-explanatory (I think) accept for “other” which takes into account personality, Illinois connections, scandals, contract situations, etc.

(Also, I didn’t include folks like Gill, Mack, Random NBA assistances, etc. because I either A.) don’t think they are realistic or B.) I have no way to rate them. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, just saying it doesn’t fit my chart!)
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Buzz Williams only gets a 6 in Buzz? :eek:
 
#395      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Vermilion Slim said:
(Also, I didn’t include folks like Gill, Mack, Random NBA assistances, etc. because I either A.) don’t think they are realistic or B.) I have no way to rate them. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, just saying it doesn’t fit my chart!)
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But you have Howard and Powell? No way either of those 2 are the next head coach.
 
#396      
Ransom Stoddard
Nagy's story is interesting to me. What he did at NDSU is nothing short of phenomenal--pretty solid as the head of a DII program, struggled with the transition to DI, and then strings together 3 Summit championships in the last 4 years. He's a longshot to get an offer anywhere (let alone a P5 program) after having just moved to Wright State, but he may be a guy to look at in 2-3 years.

That and I had a math class with him at Champaign Centennial way way back. :)
 
#397      
Newman
Second and Chalmers said:
Seriously.

Well coached teams are defined by their strengths, poorly coached teams are defined by their weaknesses.

The tut-tutting list of reasons this team can't win that Newman provided could be doubled about a bunch of teams that get top 6 seeds every year.

There will be 20 NCAA at large teams this year that don't have our talent.

Seton Hall got a 6 seed last year with Isaiah Whitehead and a half-eaten can of dog food.
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I'm not saying that we don't have the talent this year. That's why I no longer support keeping Groce because of underperforming in a year where he desperately needed to at least meet expectations. Next year is different though, we'll be missing two senior post players, a good leader in Tracy Abrams, and our best player in Hill. Our 2017 class is good but I wouldn't expect us to almost make the sweet 16. The following year could be damn good though if we add another post player. If a new coach can inspire the players that I've started to lose hope on, then maybe the wouldn't be a stretch to expect a tourney appearancemail next year. I'm not counting on it but that's fine.

That being said, I think you're taking offense to a discussion that isn't meant to be offensive. Just trying to have a civil discussion. If you do want to have that, you're more than welcome to block me.
 
#398      
Second and Chalmers
Newman said:
Next year is different though, we'll be missing two senior post players, a good leader in Tracy Abrams, and our best player in Hill. Our 2017 class is good but I wouldn't expect us to almost make the sweet 16.
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I wouldn't expect that either, but you have sounded more like you're saying that's impossible or that would be a ridiculous hope. I disagree with those things.

We will be more talented than teams that get top 6 seeds next year. That's far from the only factor though, and a new coach potentially complicates things.

I just really want to push back against any intimation that we don't have the horses.

Hypothetically we would be very thin inside next year if we lose Tilmon, but a new coach would have many months and many scholarships to try and address that, and the two bigs we do have are talented.
 
#399      
CAHALL15
I apologized for Groce for the last two years with the injuries, but this year should be a cake walk into the dance. He has TWO 6th year seniors, another 3 seniors with one being a potential conference first team candidate (although he has not played that way recently), two 3rd year juniors, and a few sophomores who got plenty of experience last especially JCL. Throw in Lucas and now you don't have to play Tate immediately.

The reason why recruiting is valued is that a particular coach can acquire more talented players which help the team win. However, if you can't win with those recruits then what's the point?
 
#400      
dbeverly26
thenoodler said:
Among high-major candidates, Cuonzo Martin, Buzz Williams, and Andy Enfield stand out to me, but, outside of maybe Cuonzo's Midwestern roots, there is nothing to pull them away from their current gigs.
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I wouldn't rule out Martin. Cal is a surprisingly bad gig. Outside of the quality of the school and the location, there's not a whole lot positive about it. Poor facilities, no institutional support, no fans to speak of, and they don't pay particularly well. (For reference, their games are only carried on the campus radio station and are called by students.)

I agree that Williams and especially Enfield aren't going anywhere, though.
 
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