So does Groce's. Means nothing.
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
So does Groce's. Means nothing.
Long time lurker, started following the board around the Djax recruitment. Finally posting because I feel I have something relevant to say lol. I spent last week in the Peoria area for work and was shocked to meet a guy who was training to be a district manager for the company. That man happened to be Marcus Griffin. I am 29, so my childhood was filled with highlights of him, Frankie, Sergio, etc.
I spent close to an hour just talking with him about how frustrated we both are with the way the program has declined. We discussed their terrible performances on the road and to me his comment was spot on. He said to me, "winning on the road is all about heart and mental toughness" and that our older guys have gotten so used to losing that they don't have what it takes to win on the road. Also said that he thinks the only way that is going to change is to change coaches, and bring in a new culture/winning attitude to the program. He even went to say that Groce should be gone even if they make the tourney.
I spent close to an hour just talking with him about how frustrated we both are with the way the program has declined. We discussed their terrible performances on the road and to me his comment was spot on. He said to me, "winning on the road is all about heart and mental toughness" and that our older guys have gotten so used to losing that they don't have what it takes to win on the road. Also said that he thinks the only way that is going to change is to change coaches, and bring in a new culture/winning attitude to the program. He even went to say that Groce should be gone even if they make the tourney.
I like this, but I propose we think "out of the box" and offer the job to Steph Curry.
I think he would recruit well and would give us a positive "buzz" nationally. He lacks X's and O's coaching experience, but that's why I think the Illini should hire assistant coach Greg Popovich and assistant coach Phil Jackson.
To help with recruiting the Chicago area, I feel like Michael Jordan would be a solid pick. He's got a lot of connections in the city and used to play there.
Big deal. Jordan played there in the 90's. Kids these days don't even know who he is.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
As far as transferring out, there may be more if Groce stays than if he goes. DJW and AJ are clearly in Groce's doghouse, perhaps for good reason. Certainly with Hill ahead of them in the rotation can't hang that on Groce. Certainly if JW hires a big name, and even if he does not, there is a reasonable chance of holding on to recruits.
Keatts certainly sounds interesting. Cuonzo sounds interesting. I am just hoping to return to the days when I had to worry about hearing the score on sports radio before I watch the game. I live in MA so unless we are top 25, not going to hear anything.
Wish the best for the Illini, and unless shows a radical turnaround, I feel the time is come. He looked liked someone who knew he was losing his job on the floor yesterday. Glad to see he has some fight, but for whatever reason he can't the fight into the players prior to the start of road games.
GO ILLINI!
Is it football season yet?
Wow, I had forgotten that this was a thing. But it was! It really was.
Ha ha, count me even more depressed.
ILLINIShox24
Orange Krush '04 & '05
Welcome to the board. Thanks for sharing your story. I'd like to think if Marcus told you this, he and those in a similar position have expressed this to Whitman.
Busy couple days!
I'm a little perplexed by the Krystowiak affection -- not that he's not a decent candidate, but not a plan A. .583 win % and .495 conference win % at Utah? Not that that's an easy job, but it's not like the PAC 12 has been a juggernaut in recent years, and he's never won that conference (two 2nd place finishes). Granted, certainly an improvement from our current HC.
I'm a little perplexed by the Krystowiak affection -- not that he's not a decent candidate, but not a plan A. .583 win % and .495 conference win % at Utah? Not that that's an easy job, but it's not like the PAC 12 has been a juggernaut in recent years, and he's never won that conference (two 2nd place finishes). Granted, certainly an improvement from our current HC.
:thumb: Well done.
They played well tonight. Rabb is a really nice player. Huge game for them on Thursday against Utah.
I would always recommend watching multiple games, 1 game samples are not the way to go. I could point you to a few Groce at ILL games that would make you think everything is A-OK here :thumb:
I would take Matta, but not first or second choice. No way Groce stays as an assistant. Best case is to keep Walker.
IF JG isn't here to coach next year, it will be real hard to keep TF,JT and to land Smith at all. I am not saying we couldn't get someone who could keep them, But I do think it will be a lot harder then some think. I wouldn't be at all shocked to lose a couple that are here already if the change is made. BUt who really knows what these kids are thinking, Since JT and TF are signed, can JW talk to them?? just to see what they are thinking about things ?
Player: Season, B1G
Hill: 17.5, 16.2
Morgan: 10.2, 12.0
Abrams: 8.8, 4.3
Thorne: 5.4, 3.6
Tate: 2.7, 1.1
Let's be realistic here. That looks like about 28 points that need to be replaced. There are good arguments as to why the last 3 players shouldn't be getting as much playing time as they are already.
Realistically, their combined season averages come to 40ppg+. The first three have played in every game with Thorne playing in 91% of games and Tate in 95% of games. My post was in regards to another poster that made an argument that keeping Groce and therefore the entire incoming freshman class would result in more wins. I'm pointing out what we are losing before they ever get here. I'm not arguing about rotations, just the numbers.
WHY ON EARTH IS MARSHALL EVEN BEING TALKED ABOUT.... No way. Has anyone ever seen him? Zero Chicago recruiting if that happens, plus for a fan base that had a aneurysm over Groce throwing his coat one night...have you ever seen his meltdown in Canada this summer? Quit bringing him up, no way he would be considered.
12 NCAA appearances, a final 4, and a perfect season. Gee, I wonder why anyone would ever want him. :huh:
If he was a realistic candidate (and I dont think he is), then hed have by far the best resume of the realistic candidates. I don't see him leaving Wichita and if he had any ideas to, I imagine the Koch brothers would make him very comfortable and he'd stay anyways. But to infer he wouldn't be near or at the top of our list is nonsense. "Not considered"? Come on man.
ILLINIShox24
Orange Krush '04 & '05
Agreed. Matta, Marshall, Bennett, Donovan, Stevens, Hoiberg, Snacks, etc is nonsense.
Two other forums I frequent on unrelated topics address this differently. One has sarcastic posts in green font and the other ends sarcastic posts with /s
:crazy: Maybe we use this guy
The Pontiff
- Chicago, IL
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]I think it's natural that our first instinct with a coaching change is that the players, especially the incoming ones, will want to flee given their attachment to the former coach/staff. But let's check out some actual data before we get too caught up in the fear-mongering of losing recruits.
As I know S&C has brought up before and couple of other posters have noted, it's actually not that common for signed P5 recruits to ask out of their NLIs after a coaching change, at least it hasn't been over these past couple of years.
In the spring of 2015, eight P5 programs changed out their head coaches, with only three of these schools having to release NLIs.[FONT="] (Of course, one disclaimer[FONT="]. This was c[FONT="]obbled together via Google searches and combing th[FONT="]ru [FONT="]247, so [FONT="]I could have missed someone.)[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
- [FONT="]Alabama[/FONT][FONT="]: Fired Anthony Grant on Mar 15, hired Avery Johnson on Apr 6. No NLI releases. Both 3-star Fall signees (#154, #202) retained[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Arizona State:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Herb Sendek on Mar 24, hired Bobby Hurley on Apr 9. One NLI release (#161 Dominic Green to UWash). No other Fall signees. One 3-star (#188) signed in summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Florida:[/FONT][FONT="] Dumped by Billy Donovan on May 1, hired Michael White on May 7. One NLI release (#75 Noah Dickerson to UWash). Two 4-star Fall signees (#64, #92), one 3-star Fall signee (#149) retained.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Iowa State:[/FONT][FONT="] Dumped by Fred Hoiberg on Jun 2, hired Steve Prohm on Jun 8. No NLI releases. One 4-star (#95) Spring signee. Two 3-star (#288, #324) signees during the summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Mississippi State:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Rick Ray on Mar 21, hired Ben Howland on Mar 24. No NLI releases. One 4-star (#98) Fall signee retained. One 5-star, one 4-star and one 2-star signed that spring/summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]St. John's:[/FONT][FONT="] Parted ways with Steve Lavin on Mar 27, hired Chris Mullin on Mar 30. One NLI release (#205 Samir Doughty to VCU). One 4-star (#76), four 3-stars (#116, #135, #190, #197) signed that spring/summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Tennessee:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Donnie Tyndall on Mar 27, hired Rick Barnes on Mar 31. No NLI releases. Two 3-star Fall signees (#293, #309) retained. Two 3-stars (#144, #316) signed that spring/summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Texas:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Rick Barnes on Mar 29, hired Shaka Smart on Apr 3. No NLI releases. Two 4-star Fall signees (#39, #47) retained. One 4-star (#53) signed in the spring.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Georgia Tech:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Brian Gregory on Mar 25, hired Josh Pastner on Apr 8. One NLI released (#80 RSCI Romello White to ASU). Two 3-stars (#149, #247) retained.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Oklahoma State:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Travis Ford on Mar 18, hired Brad Underwood on Mar 21. No NLI releases. Three 3-star Fall signees (#127, #164, #329) retained. Signed an SFU commit (#334) that spring.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Pittsburgh:[/FONT][FONT="] Dumped by Jaime Dixon on Mar 21, hired Kevin Stallings on Mar 27. No NLI releases. Two 3-star Fall signees (#128, #136) retained.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Rutgers: Fired Eddie Jordan on Mar 10, hired Steve Pikiell on Mar 22. No NLI releases. No Fall signees. Two 3-stars and one 2-star signed that spring/summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Stanford:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Johnny Dawkins on Mar 14, hired Jerod Haase on Mar 25. No NLI releases. Two 4-star signees (#86, #101) retained.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]TCU:[/FONT][FONT="] Fired Trent Johnson on Mar 13, hired Jaime Dixon on Mar 21. No NLI releases. One 3-star Fall signee (#260) retained. One 4-star (#59), one 3-star (#288), and one 2-star signed that summer.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Texas Tech:[/FONT][FONT="] Dumped by Tubby Smith on Apr 14, hired Chris Beard on Apr 15. One NLI released (#285 Keon Clergeot to Memphis).[/FONT]
- [FONT="]Vanderbilt:[/FONT][FONT="] Dumped by Kevin Stallings on Mar 27, hired Bryce Drew on Apr 6. No NLI releases. Two 3-star Fall signees (#119, #129) retained.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Secondly, especially for guys that have been committed for a while, there's probably a bond that's formed with the other guys in the recruiting class (i.e., Tilmon, DWill, Pickett all being buds) that would be lost with a release. Thirdly, better opportunities may not be that plentiful. Even if a KU has an opening for a Tilmon, he has to basically start over in forming relationships with his future teammates and seeing where he fits in the pecking order.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Bottom line, if JW moves as quickly as others have, I'd be surprised if the new coach had to release even one guy, let alone two. However, the challenge may be if he's targeting say a Tony Bennett and UVa makes a deep run in the tournament, then he risks a big gap from when he fires Groce. But even then, I would guess [FONT="]JW will be [FONT="]staying in[FONT="] touch with those recruits' families to reassure them of his plan.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Awesome work your holiness, thanks! :thumb:
Stats and data to support an argument! Awesome :clappy: :thumb:
This is along the lines of what I would've expected. I have to think this is in large part due to where signing day(s) are in relation to the carousel, but either way, not a whole lot of a movement. I am not particularly concerned about losing any of our current commits except Tilmon, and a 5th year can get us through next year should that unfortunately happen.
- Status