If that question has been put to rest, it was adversely to your position. That has been the discussion for the last few days. Groce had 3 Weber scholarship players on the roster in year 2 - that is a pretty empty cupboard. Given that Weber's 2012 recruiting class was a blank and there were no freshmen on the year 1 team, there should have been 9 or 10 left in year 2 had the cupboard been left full.
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
If that question has been put to rest, it was adversely to your position. That has been the discussion for the last few days. Groce had 3 Weber scholarship players on the roster in year 2 - that is a pretty empty cupboard. Given that Weber's 2012 recruiting class was a blank and there were no freshmen on the year 1 team, there should have been 9 or 10 left in year 2 had the cupboard been left full.
I felt we were a realistic landing spot for him a year or so ago, but I just don't feel it now. IMO he'd be the best of the non-elite options. I just don't get the feeling he'll end up here anymore.
I think I just found my Illini message board soulmate.
I feel like a good coach can make the tourney with this team next year.
It's absurd.
We are losing the top two scorers in MH and MM. With Tilmon we have an upside by the end of the season but absolutely no depth without him. If we keep the recruits we have and get Smith we should challenge at the national level in 2019 IMO.
So it doesn't matter what experts think but it does matter what you think?
Just wait until 2015. Just wait until 2017. Now just wait until 2019. I love the broken record fan approach.
It's a nice little win streak.....in year 5. Glad MSU not at full strength. Still like to see a coaching change.
What is this even supposed to mean? As Illinois fans, I would assume most expect their coach to make the NCAA tournaments most years, especially after missing it 3 straight.
So let me turn that around on you. If we're assuming most experts didn't expect us to have success, does that mean Groce exceeded expectations and had a great year? If we are picked to finish 12th and finish 10th instead, are you happy?
Independent of the roster at day 1 of the season, a coach should be able to make the tournament in year 5. It is more an indictment that we still hadn't built to a status where pundits thought we could make it to the tournament or the top half of the B1G than an effective excuse. That is the point. Regardless of whether we were expected to be in with this roster or not, by year 5, you should be getting to the tournament.
And please note, this is applicable for any P5 program, not just Illinois. 5 years is plenty for a coach to reach the NCAAT at a P5 program.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
And let's be clear: sneaking into the tournament (if we even do that) as one of the last four in with a team full of 4th and 6th year seniors by making an improbable late-season run after 3 months of floundering is NOT "turning the program around." The program is still in a shambles, even if we are in the middle of our annual "THESE recruits will outplay their expectations and really deliver" fever dream.
Unless you're a donor, you get no say 
. You're in AD Whitman's world.
. You're in AD Whitman's world.Unless you're a donor, you get no say
Really, you have to be a BIG money donor to actually have a specific say, not just "my IFund Account has an extra $50 going in beyond my tickets annually"
With the young players we have, Finke, Black, JCL as sophs, Lucas and Nichos FR and the top recruiting class it's not in shambles that's an exaggeration. I was at the game last night and watch every game I am not happy at all with where we have been but you have to give agree we now look good since Lucas has developed into a nice point guard. People wanting to ignore that are not being objective, if you know anything about basketball you can see he was worth several points on offense and defense over what we have put on the floor the last 3 or 4 years
I mean you get a say. Just not as much of a say.
Groce shouldn't get to keep his job just because he finally got a very experienced team to finally play up to their potential at the end of the season. These wins show just how badly we were under performing for much of the season. I could understand it more if we had a young team, but this is a very old experienced team. With the talent on this roster we should have EASILY been an NCAA tournament team. Meeting expectations for only part of a year should not be enough to save your job.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Except that TJL averaged 21 minutes per game in JANUARY, which is pretty significant, but don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda.
I agree 100%. Barring two+ wins in the NCAAT, I dont want him back.
The problem at this point is, even if we miss the tourney, that Groce has changed how people (players/recruits/some fans) perceive him. If we don't win another game this year, then I think people will fall back to earth, but watching the emotions flow the past few games really shows how committed the players are to the guy. Firing a coach who has extreme backing of players is tough.
That said, the decision makers need to look further than the past two weeks. This win streak is a trend in the Groce era. It's by the the biggest positive he has for him. Not only do fans gain optimism, but it makes it harder to fire him. So far, these mini runs late in the year have been fruitless. Still if you think back to Weber era seasons, those teams seemed completely careless of game outcomes late in the season. This is the only reason it's going to be hard to fire Groce now, not lack of candidates, risk of losing commits, or anything else.
If there's any group disregarding facts, it's the keep Groce group. Talk about agenda, there is no legitimate narrative to keep Groce that actually involves any facts. All the facts point to making a change.
The only narrative for keeping Groce is, "if he makes the tournament, he is finally improving as a coach and will continue to get better." And even that one gets defeated with facts.
If Whitman thinks Groce has learned from his past recruiting and coaching mistakes and is becoming a better coach, then he should keep him.
I've always thought that Whitman would keep him if he thought Groce could coach. Just a couple weeks ago the answer to that question was an obvious "no." The answer to that question is a little foggier now, but we do need to consider the fact that this run might be more about hot three point shooting than coaching.
I've always thought that Whitman would keep him if he thought Groce could coach. Just a couple weeks ago the answer to that question was an obvious "no." The answer to that question is a little foggier now, but we do need to consider the fact that this run might be more about hot three point shooting than coaching.
This is the argument I can understand. I'm still trying to figure out this run too. I love it, and am 100% cheering for us to win every game, but I still don't know if this run is actually impressive. The best 2 teams we've beaten are Northwestern and MSU. Both teams are on the right side of the bubble, but hardly top quality competition. I'd feel much better if we had any wins against ranked opponents like a Wisconsin, Purdue, or Maryland. And that would help with the tournament talk too, as our resume is missing a top quality win.
I think it is way more about defense and on the court communication. Everyone is totally committed right now. Go look at other team's forums about how they talk about Illinois defense right now.
UofI08;1282419 The only narrative for keeping Groce is said:
I don't think this is true; there's no way to tell what Groce will be moving forward with objective certainty.
I just don't know how our offense functions without MH and MM. It could be fine, or it could absolutely cripple us. Those two make some really tough shots that a lot of guys don't make consistently at this level that keep us going at times. I think we can have a functional defense under Groce now that I've seen this stretch. But I have yet to see something that really convinces me we can do enough offensively to be a really good team under Groce. I think we need a Friday win in the BTT against a good team (would love another go at Purdue for this) to really see what sort of streak this is.
I saw my first Illini game when Mannie Jackson was playing. I've seen a lot.
This fan base for 60 years has prayed for a young strong aggressive AD. Some one with a vision, our Don Canham if you will. Well, we got him. Now let me tell you what that means.
Weak ADs will let fan bases affect them. JW is not weak. Not one of 270 pages of opinion, including mine, will have one iota of effect on JW. We have a constitutional right to an opinion, he has a right to ignore it.
JW will fire JG if he feels that 5 years is enough. He will keep him if he believes JG inherited a tough situation, probably shot to high in early recruiting, but is turning the ship in the right direction and JW is much closer to the program than we are.
It is the first Thursday of the month. This the day the UI gets its BIG check. It will be a little north of $3,000,000 for one month, there will be 9 more like it this year. You think that threatening to stop your $100 a year contribution is going to rattle JW. Paleeeze.
This fan base for 60 years has prayed for a young strong aggressive AD. Some one with a vision, our Don Canham if you will. Well, we got him. Now let me tell you what that means.
Weak ADs will let fan bases affect them. JW is not weak. Not one of 270 pages of opinion, including mine, will have one iota of effect on JW. We have a constitutional right to an opinion, he has a right to ignore it.
JW will fire JG if he feels that 5 years is enough. He will keep him if he believes JG inherited a tough situation, probably shot to high in early recruiting, but is turning the ship in the right direction and JW is much closer to the program than we are.
It is the first Thursday of the month. This the day the UI gets its BIG check. It will be a little north of $3,000,000 for one month, there will be 9 more like it this year. You think that threatening to stop your $100 a year contribution is going to rattle JW. Paleeeze.
- Status