mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Why don't you be a pal and link those forums?
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
Why don't you be a pal and link those forums?
Agree with everything you say here. Even the top part where you quoted me, I followed with, "and even that one gets defeated with facts."
A win against a high quality opponent would be great.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
I think the pro-Groce crowd's agenda is just this "we have our PG". Yes, it took 5 years and several misses to get him, but its clear that we are a better team when we have a legitimate PG to lead us. Plus, we may have an even better one coming in next year, if all the reports are true.
That is what gives people hope for next year (and beyond). Its not that Groce has finally "figured it out", its that Groce finally has a competent PG to run his system.
Isn't it the coaches job to recruit the needs of their team? The fact that we have not had a PG until now falls squarely at the feet of John Groce and the Staff!
No question the defense is better and Groce and the team deserve credit for that. BUT, the 3 pt shooting has been unusually hot too - e.g., last night they shot 42% from 3. They don't win without that.
Not trying to take any credit away from the team or Groce, but there's a chance we're getting fooled by a run fueled by hot shooting. Isn't that how Mike Thomas got us into this mess in the first place?
We need to stop over inflating our recruits. Trent Frazier is borderline top-100 (107). He's no Dee Brown. Frazier is the composite 26th ranked PG. Lucas was the 29th. Both are solid recruits and Lucas is performing well of late, but let's not blow expectations out of the water. Damonte Williams is actually right there in the rankings with Frazier, 109 overall, 27th PG.
So taking 5 years to find a competent PG isn't "figuring it out?" And why couldn't he figure it out earlier in the season?
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
Three-point shooting is essential to succeed in today's game.
My dumb question for the day is: is there any kind of tapering in the strength program that could explain the improved shooting by seemingly everyone lately? Do the players leg lift a bit during the season, it's a taper beginning a couple weeks ago? Seems like a good way to lose a lot of games before that, so I'm doubting it, but wondering.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
Shooting is contagious.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
I don't think anyone is arguing that fact. Call it bad luck, poor decision making or whatever, it did take Groce a long time to land his PG.
But, now that he has his PG and his system is working and starting to point us in the right direction, with better recruits/athletes coming in next year, people are optimistic about the future with Groce at the helm.
Whe you weigh that against firing Groce and potentially going through another 2-3 year rebuild, I think most people would rather hope that this is an indication that Groce has turned it around.
Look, I get it, some people are still not confident in Groce and it would probably take a Sweet 16 run (or better) to convince some (while others probably wouldn't be convinced even if we win the whole thing). But, saying that Groce cannot get better is just as much of an opinion as saying the Groce can get better.
The most interesting thing about this link for me is that MSU fans are smarter than Izzo in exactly the same way Illinois fans are smarter than Groce.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
Yes, point guard was a problem, and Groce has corrected it. It seems like you're more interested in punishing Groce than improving the team.
Absolutely agree! I think he has his point guard and possibly multiple with Frazier and Smith, you go from 0 guys to 2 or 3 that's a big improvement
No, I like Groce! I wanted him to do well and be the guy to turn things around.
IMO...he has had enough time and he has not done it. I would imagine that he probably is the type of person who would take full responsibility and not make excuses.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
The point I am trying to make is that it would be more productive to think in terms of how to improve the program rather than playing the blame game. If a problem has been solved, it is not productive to ask why it wasn't solved sooner. Sounds a lot like my ex-wife.
I've observed that latter sentiment from fans of every B10 opposing fanbase in reddit game threads, they seem to all be surprised he's even above .500 total and tend to ask if he'll be back. A couple jokes in last night's reddit postgame about a upcoming extension. The rest of the conference seems to view him as a poor coach (hard to contest that POV)
I'm sorry... this isn't marriage! This is a job. A highly compensated job. When people don't produce in big money jobs they are let go!
illini80
- Forgottonia
While I am happy for the players that are having success and I'm sure having some fun for a change, I will be disappointed to see JG retained and extend. And I fully expect that to happen at this point. TJL makes this team so much better on both ends that I don't think we will return to some of the terrible basketball we saw for most of this year. However, I have absolutely no confidence that JG has the ability to take this team to the top of the conference. While we are thrilled to be ending strong, we still will be .500 in conference and it took a tremendous finish to accomplish that.
I see an extended period of mediocrity in our future.
I see an extended period of mediocrity in our future.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
It is not nearly as simple as you are making it out to be.
I'm sure Wisconsin/Purdue/Michigan State/IU fans would love to see Groce retained. It's much better for them to keep our ceiling at 9-9 and on the bubble every year than risking us hiring someone who gets us back to competing for the conference title every year.
I completely agree agree with the facts...sub 500 Big Ten record, awful losses at home, dreadful January conference records, bad PG play for 4 years...that being said I still want him kept. I know I'm probably letting the past 2 weeks sway me into this decision or maybe its the incoming class, but I think Groce will get a couple more years.
So what's the point - Get rid of him because he may not get a point guard in the future or we are going to punish him for screwing up in the past.
Is the cup have empty or half full? Is coaching ability inherent or is it learned? Is JG learning or not capable of improving.
Seems to me more emotion than real knowledge. I just hope the AD is more knowledgable than we are as the goal is the same for everyone but we all have an opinion on how to get there.
- Status