I am aware of all these points. Out of all the coaches he’s the highest variance. I don’t wanna be mean but if you don’t scuff at an outside the box hire, it’s not truly an outside the box hire. He was mention but far from strongly considered.
2019-20 Coaching Discussion/Carousel
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I understand the point but it was a very "ESPN" like comment, but the better question is does he know Sean McVay?
One of my biggest fears of hiring a coordinator is that they might stop calling the plays. That would take the shine of some off these candidates for me.
Love the irony here.
Deleted member 654622
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But do you?????
I mean I guess never say never but if JW called and he actually answered it would be just to laugh at us.
My number 1 choice is Justin Wilcox, big buyout at Cal
2.5M ? That’s not big.
He just signed a 5 year extension that seems like a very small amount but i will take your word on that
Cal doesn’t have deep pockets, however. That 5 year extension has a base of only 14M. The buyout at 2.5 is fairly routine, dare I say even a tad bit cheap.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Surely Mr. That's Unrealistic isn't going to indulge the Justin Wilcox concept.
No way is he a more likely get than Fickell.
No way is he a more likely get than Fickell.
He is not, he merely wanted to note that the buyout isn’t an issue. That way, if this comes up in the future, we will be ahead of the curve in terms of understanding what that number might mean for us.
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
Franklin then took the next step and went 9-4.
Addazio hasn't done any better since.
Brohm hasn't taken the next step yet. They have a chance to finish below us this year.
Does it really matter what happens in year 1 with guys that aren't yours? In the end, whoever we get is going to be judged in year 3 or 4 with his guys that he recruited and developed. If our next coach wants to completely blow everything up and start over, I'm cool with it as long as we are where we need to be in year 3 or 4.
So we're ok scrapping recruiting for the next four years and running out some talent again...there wont be a recruit that will come within miles of this place if we get rid of this coach now.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Barring bad behavior, which has been pretty well culled already from all outward appearances, or total lack of fit for a system, which tends to be overstated except in the most extreme of cases, one thing the Lovie era has proven to us is that roster teardown for its own sake is dumb and counterproductive.
It is often the case that it takes time to build in college football. But the way the (objectively false!) losing-is-winning tanking mentality that has poisoned professional sports starts to bleed into some of this stuff is really, really dumb and mistaken and destructive.
It's clear, at this point, that at the very least Josh Whitman sold Lovie Smith and Brad Underwood the leeway and the institutional support to burn everything to ashes and start from scratch, if not actively encouraging them to go that route. He had his reasons. Maybe he felt that was an appealing message to prospective coaches leery of the prior lack of success here.
But that SHOULD NOT be the message this time around. The message is that we've got a bunch of good kids who have played a lot of football and who are ready to have a higher level of instruction to take the next step, and to build a culture through which the next coach can bring through his recruits. That's the actual path to success in college football. You go to Humiliation Town starting nine zillion freshmen because you stumble into it having inherited someone else's mistake, you don't plow into it in year 2 on purpose.
Deleted member 654622
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I strongly disagree. Why do you think a new coach wouldn't be able to recruit for four years? And plenty of kids are going to be willing to come if they believe in what a coach is selling. Lovie is currently trying to sell a 3 win team. So.....
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
2014 and 2015 had rosters pretty similar to this one in terms of talent level and if anything lesser in terms of experience level and we were a significantly better team.
And Cubit and Beckman aren't very good.
If you don't think the Alabama staff could beat Eastern Michigan with this roster, go home, you're drunk.
The whole “recruits will run FROM us like the plague” theory is only applicable if there are currently recruits running TO us in droves. There aren’t. The people I’m speaking to tell me our 2021 efforts are shaky right now.
Not only won’t we be scrapping recruiting, if we make the right hire, we could very well see dramatic increase in the quality of HS kids we sign.
And please let it be HS seniors. The transfer market, outside of Hurts, Buechele and Justin Fields (One of the best recruits I personally have ever seen) didn’t amount to much for anyone who dabbled in it.
Both had a better winning percentage at Illinois.
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
Good God, yes. Every year that isn’t a disaster matters. Every year that this program looks competent is a chance to breed more competence. And fan interest. And alumni support.
“Does it really matter if you have success with guys that aren’t yours” is such a pure, distilled message board take I almost have to shield my eyes from looking at it directly.
Deleted member 46511
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Recruiting may get worse... but our record will likely get better.
I'm not a fan of hyperbole... and there is one caveat (I'm starting the Nebraska statement at 21-7 ILL), but QUITE LITERALLY any other coaching staff in D-1, is 4-1 right now, with this very roster.
EMU would be defeated by simple, big boy football. (Run... and win.)
Nebraska was lost by an OC that needed to show a night time tv crowd how smart he was (instead of running between the tackles until they stopped it.)
Talent may dip. I'm not sure the quality of play on the field does, however, with a change.
Luke Fickell and Mike Norvell would be high on any AD's short list. Our problem is they may have their sights set higher than IL. I wonder if Sonny Dykes could bring some Texas talent north. He flopped at Cal, so that would make me wonder. Willie Fritz has won everywhere he's been, but he's been mostly South. Chip Long and Jim Leonhard maybe our best shots?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
And to be fair, there are roster-construction things you can do in Year 1 that then damage your chances in the later years. We do not want to hire a coach who is going to bring in a bunch of grad transfers over the offseason to make our already too big rising senior class even bigger. We do not want to sign ten Jucos in February.
But what we DO want to do is treat our players like the talented, dedicated human capital that they are, ask them to be leaders, and create a culture by which snaps are earned by those who prove they can do the most with them. We want to treat every play of every game like it matters, because it does. That's how you win in year 1, that's how you win in year 4, that's how you win ever.
The plan Lovie and Whitman cooked up to "hack" those basic values was colossally flawed in its concept, forget about how bungled the execution was.
Lack of commitment to a process! That is a risk based on our history recently. We talk about commitment on this board we expect the kids to come in and commit to our program sometimes 5 years and we cant make a longer term commitment to our coach? Not a good look to parents and the kids.
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