bdutts
- Houston, Texas
The state will find the money. They always do.
2024 Chicago White Sox
The state will find the money. They always do.
bdutts
- Houston, Texas
Did Ricketts ask for state money?
Neither a Cubs or White Sox fan but question with the highlighted and also side question
I thought it was given National Landmark status in the last few years(after renovations done for few years). Am I wrong?
I remember Ricketts asking for a few hundred million but also withdrawing that request with the Illinois legislature. Pimped out the stadium for signs and corporate sponsors to get those $$$.
Side question
The Bears have a lease until 2033, though they can break it in 2026 for a $84 million fee. White Sox have a lease until 2028 I believe. White Sox haven't formally asked for the money yet. Would the Bears slow down the process of the White Sox getting funding? Wasn't sure if $ or location of stadiums would play into it and basically tell the White Sox to screw off for now.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
With this as with the Bears, I just really wish the relevant parties were looking at the bigger picture for the entire South Loop/Museum Campus area.
Sox in the 78 could be a success, but it would require an entire reimaging of the way that part of the city is integrated into the transportation network.
That's related to the thing about the Cubs. The Ricketts only made the briefest of gestures at the suburbs for leverage and got laughed at, the idea of leaving Wrigley doesn't pass the straight face test.
Wrigley is a goldmine. A monopoly on NFL Football in Chicagoland is a goldmine. They don't need public money and everyone knows it.
Sox in the 78 could be a success, but it would require an entire reimaging of the way that part of the city is integrated into the transportation network.
If we're being coldly cynical about it, the White Sox actually have a greater degree of leverage than the Bears because the White Sox can plausibly threaten to leave the market.
That's related to the thing about the Cubs. The Ricketts only made the briefest of gestures at the suburbs for leverage and got laughed at, the idea of leaving Wrigley doesn't pass the straight face test.
Wrigley is a goldmine. A monopoly on NFL Football in Chicagoland is a goldmine. They don't need public money and everyone knows it.
Chicagoland simply loves sports and its sports franchises. All the teams are as much a part of the City and people’s lives here as the Lake and the Loop itself.
The Chicago teams are deep part of the entire identity and life of the City. People need something to take our minds off the sketchy (and worse) politics and bad fiscal state of the City and the cold temperatures for much of the year. And the millions of good steady neighborhood industrial jobs that were whisked away. Sports gives us something fun to put our attention on and enjoy for a chunk of our day.
Given that... Chicago teams owners have often used our love for sports against us. The Blackhawk ownership family under the family elders did that for years. White Sox have had lousy ownership for their entire existence except for when Bill Veeck owned the team. North Side ball club owners have used the team as a cash-cow for generations. And the Bears have taken advantage of Chicago’s love for football and put a mostly poor team on the field for much of their existence after the great Bears teams prior to the Fifties.
All that being said... a fair-minded person would say that the Sox should get settled in the South Loop and the Bears find a suitable location in the City (and forget about settling in the O’Hare flight path). And then... put some good players on the field for we who love sports to enjoy.
And maybe give us fans just a tad more respect in the future.
I think the 78 has really good transportation; arguably better than Wrigley and superior to Soldier Field.
The Red, Orange and Green lines all stop at Roosevelt. There are 6-10 bus routes. Very close exits from LSD, the Dan Ryan and the Stevenson.
There is a new dedicated Redline stop being built at 15th and Clark. They’ll be a new water taxi stop. The Rock Island tracks cut through the site and present an opportunity for a stop.
And, of course, every Metra Line runs to downtown and is walkable or a short Uber or Taxi to the 78.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Depending on where the Sox stadium sits on the 78 parcel (and it can't be the nearest corner because there are train tracks there) that Roosevelt stop isn't that close, negligibly closer than Soldier Field really and certainly nothing resembling the Addison Red Line stop for Wrigley
Sort of a close but no cigar situation, half a mile of outrageously trafficked Roosevelt in either direction.
They haven't finalized that yet. THAT would be big, and is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
A fun idea, but an extremely low throughput option in the absolute maximum.
See how I got to the word "reimagining"?
I like that idea, but not as much as I like the idea of the city just buying the Metra Electric Line, which starts at Millennium Park and then hits Soldier Field, McCormick Place, the coming Obama Library, and then veers into exactly the territory in which the CTA plans to spend 10x the money building the Red Line extension.
Eh, there's a reason the 78 land hasn't been built on. Despite its central location it's an inconvenient little pocket of the city. The same as is often said of Soldier Field.
But build those new transit links and create better pedestrian thoroughfares through that area and it could be a neighborhood transformed.
How would the Sox find the votes in the state to get money, or are we just assuming good old-fashioned Illinois corruption and lining politicians pockets? Cardinals fans downstate don't care about giving the Sox money. Cubs fans don't care about giving the Sox money. Non-sports fans don't care about giving the Sox money. Is there some new study that shows these stadium investments work out for taxpayers?
bdutts
- Houston, Texas
The bolded part is how it will get done.
It seems to be something like the State bailing themselves and the City out. They would be using the Sox stadium as a way to refinance the bonds on Guaranteed Rate and Soldier Field by rolling them all together and extending the term. Otherwise, the State and City have to pick up the payments when the leases expire. They are just kicking the can down the road as usual.
Of course, it is not directly across the street like Wrigley, but the stadium is planned of for the center of the site along the river. It is probably a 15 minute walk, but you would enter the general entertainment district much sooner. Wrigley wins on proximity the 78 on variety.
It is difficult to argue with a straight face that Wrigley has anywhere close to the highway access as the 78. The bus lines would primarily serve south side and west side residents, just like Wrigley's serve north and west side residents. The 78 wins here.
Correct it hasn't begun construction but neither has the stadium. Preliminary engineering is done, and it would be built in the lower levels of a new tower built by Related. It would certainly be completed at the same time as the stadium. When completed the the CTA access would be at least equal to Wrigley.
A water taxi will absolutely serve people coming from Michigan Avenue, Union Station and Olgivie. There has never been a point to point destination option for the water taxi and with a summer focused venue like a baseball stadium, it will get used. It is easy to add trips if demand is there. I can absolutely see lifelong Sox fan in my brother-in-law taking the Metra from Hinsdale, then the water taxi with 3 or 4 grandchildren in tow. It could be the fastest way to get from either of those three locations to the new stadium. The 78 wins over Wrigley.
Ok, but it doesn't take a lot of imagination to add a stop on a trainline that literally runs through the property. You are correct, it is similar to the Metra Electric service. I see this as the least interesting because redundancy.
I don't believe the site escaped development for lack of interest or demand; at least since the 90's when interest in the near south side started picking up with the success of the Central Station development. Its separation from Clark Street by the tracks and the grade differential from Roosevelt didn't help, but the property languished primarily due to legal and ownership issues. CSX railroad then started pitching this property to developers. Infamous Tony Rezko was able to finally get his paws on it. He then flipped to an Iraqi billionaire about the same time he was on his way to jail. Related was only able to secure it in 2016. They put a plan together and got approval at the end of 2018 as Rahm was heading out the door. Then after some early momentum the pandemic put a halt to this and other large projects (especially those with an office component) like Lincoln Yards.
Sorry for the detailed retort, but the hot take about the difficulty of integrating the 78 into the transportation network is just not true. I don't want to see subsidies for a stadium, but a new White Sox stadium at the 78 would also be a 'goldmine'.
The Bears in Arlington is a far bigger headache for Chicagoland than the Sox 78 Site. Yes, those NW Boonies have established transit in the area. But It's a Long Way to Tipperary for anyone not in O'Hare region. The 78 is a central location nice and close to the heart of the City. And Chicago has always been a rail town. If Chicago can't find a way to make rail work at the 78 then we should turn in our engineer's hats. And as I pointed out earlier... they even had the L trains going right into the Stock Yards for many years. They can make rail work anywhere, somehow. And streetcars even went all the way into Westchester at one time. Not to mention going all over the State of Illinois as well.
As for the State subsidy... the choice is always a simple one. Come up with the dough one way or the other... or you lose your AL franchise here likely forever. Look at Boston. Look at St. Louis. Look at Philly. And the A's are not coming here as was the rumor in '70s. It would be American League, good bye forever. And as a Sox fan... I find AL ball much more fun to watch and I want the Sox here and not in Tennessee.
And as a South Side fan... baseball would be dead to me in this town if the Sox left. I would have to go all-in on the Gary Railcats.
Media reports have identified prime potential cites for MLB expansion in coming years. These are (in alphabetical order)...
Charlotte
Las Vegas (if the A’s haven’t moved there)
Montreal
Nashville
Portland
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
San Antonio.
Though not named in the media reports, I would add Austin, Texas to the list. The place is growing like crazy and has many high-earning residents and lots of corporate presence (more than San Antonio does).
What this does for us Sox fans is to tell us where the Sox Owner might seek to move the White Sox if he doesn’t get his way with the State funding.
Owning an MLB team is like winning the lottery every single year you own it.
Charlotte
Las Vegas (if the A’s haven’t moved there)
Montreal
Nashville
Portland
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
San Antonio.
Though not named in the media reports, I would add Austin, Texas to the list. The place is growing like crazy and has many high-earning residents and lots of corporate presence (more than San Antonio does).
What this does for us Sox fans is to tell us where the Sox Owner might seek to move the White Sox if he doesn’t get his way with the State funding.
Owning an MLB team is like winning the lottery every single year you own it.
Dylan Cease traded to the Padres for "multiple notable prospects"
I hope the "notable" prospects are just that. If that's the case, it's the right move, but I really hope this rebuild bears a little more fruit than the last one. Being a Sox fan these days is tough.
Illinicpa14
- Chicago
Well - it’s only one even top 100 guy…disappointing per usual with this franchise.
At least when they firesale’d last time they got a bunch of top guys we were excited to learn about while they were in the minors
Yeah....it wasn't much of a haul. Seems like a projected middle of the rotation guy and just taking a couple of flyers on the others.
I think Getz got a decent haul considering the circumstances. Teams weren’t willing to pay top dollar for him commensurate to his near Cy Young year with last year’s results hanging out there. He’s having a good spring that allowed Sox to get package they got. Sure Sox could have gambled that his good spring meant a return to his 2022 form and gotten a better package of prospects later, but if he faltered again his trade value drops further.
I think Thorpe has #2 starter upside. He gets downgraded by prospect analysts because he doesn’t have a huge arm. But he has a really good change up, and his other offerings are more than good enough to play off the change. Plus he knows how to pitch. I like the OF they got too. Can see him being a solid+ player with 20/20 potential. I really don’t know much about the other prospect other than he has more a power pitcher but has control issues. If he can overcome those, he has middle rotation potential.
Seems like Getz was looking for prospects that can contribute possibly as early as next year rather than deep prospects. If Sox fans thought that at this time they were going to get a top prospect (reported that Getz asked for Spencer Jones in package from NYY), they were crazy. I’d give the trade a B grade. Don’t really blame Getz for not gambling and hoping for more down the line.
Don't get me wrong...I don't think it was a terrible trade. I might have been more willing to bank on a comeback season for Cease though, given his stuff, but understand the risk. I'm also jaded by top prospects that haven't exactly panned out as hyped, so a little skeptical of the ability of the organization to develop these guys. Hoping for the best, but losing patience for a competitive team anytime soon.
One thing the Sox got right is that both Giolito and Cease have probably already seen their best days. The Sox got the best years out of them and got what they could for them.
Both were great to have around and both found themselves as major-leaguers on the South Side. But any pitcher has long-term arm and other injury risks and potentially could have their career end with every pitch they throw.
It’s too bad that the Abreu-Anderson-Giolito-Cease White Sox did not have the great Sox season together we wanted them to. But there are no guarantees in sports other than to know that there aren’t any guarantees.
Sox have a franchise player in Center that they need to keep and build around. It’s going to be a rough season ahead. But at least Sox fans know what to expect this time around.
So, just get that new park built in the South Loop and quit fooling around!
I think not having too many trade chips led Getz to not take the gamble. He’s already hoping Eloy’s spring portends a good year for him to up his trade value.
If Colson Montgomery and Bryan Ramos pan out, them, these 3 prospects and a few others Sox have could have the makings of a strong nucleus arriving as early as next year.
Opening Day impressions from 35th Street...
Good crowd of Sox fans.
Sox defense much sharper than recent history.
Sox pitching surprisingly good today.
Offense... anemic. Nothing big out of Moncada, Robert, Jimenez or Vaughn.
Prognosis for the Season...
Probably much like the above. Whether the Sox can muster an offense will determine how many games above 60 they will win.
In general... a better and more focused looking ball club than the chaos of recent years.
Good crowd of Sox fans.
Sox defense much sharper than recent history.
Sox pitching surprisingly good today.
Offense... anemic. Nothing big out of Moncada, Robert, Jimenez or Vaughn.
Prognosis for the Season...
Probably much like the above. Whether the Sox can muster an offense will determine how many games above 60 they will win.
In general... a better and more focused looking ball club than the chaos of recent years.
White Sox pattern after three games...
Losing one-run games.
Pitchers can’t hold opposition in the late innings.
Sox can’t generate runs on the base-paths and only have hit long-balls.
Club looks more sharp, but so far nothing to show for it.
Losing one-run games.
Pitchers can’t hold opposition in the late innings.
Sox can’t generate runs on the base-paths and only have hit long-balls.
Club looks more sharp, but so far nothing to show for it.
Need to put a couple in the win column. Quick.