2026 FIFA World Cup Thread

#551      
the juiceman cometh
Fly Illini Fly! said:
It's just bad for the sport for a red card / double yellow to determine a World Cup Final.

I'm not saying it wasn't a card. It's just as a viewer... that's not what you want determining a World Cup Final.

Much more encouraging to see the winner get crowned 11 v 11.
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You can't really run the counterfactual, but pretty unfair to Spain to suggest this outcome was determined by that card. They dominated this match from the first whistle to the last. And if the ref keeps the card in his pocket on a clear yellow card situation just because it's the final 1) that's a travesty and 2) Argentina is emboldened to play even more physically in their attempt to force penalties. I think that's far worse for the sport than what ended up happening.

Every card given in this match was deserved, including the red, and the better team won. I'd have liked a more entertaining match, but zero issues with how things unfolded other than that.
 
#553      
iFlyBy
Fly Illini Fly! said:
It's just bad for the sport for a red card / double yellow to determine a World Cup Final.

I'm not saying it wasn't a card. It's just as a viewer... that's not what you want determining a World Cup Final.

Much more encouraging to see the winner get crowned 11 v 11.
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Dude, what are you talking about? What would be bad for the sport is Argentina committing that foul and getting away with it.

The refs didn't determine the outcome; Argentina's reckless play did.
 
#555      
Dallas Illini 91
iFlyBy said:
Dude, what are you talking about? What would be bad for the sport is Argentina committing that foul and getting away with it.

The refs didn't determine the outcome; Argentina's reckless play did.
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I interpreted the comment merely as preferring that the match finish 11v11. Did it deserve a yellow? Yes. Did the ref make the right call? Yes. Would it have been a more enjoyable finish to me as a neutral viewer if A) Fernandez hadn't made a foolish challenge or B) he wasn't already on a yellow? Also yes.

Whose fault was it? Fernandez's.
 
#560      
iFlyBy
Dallas Illini 91 said:
I interpreted the comment merely as preferring that the match finish 11v11. Did it deserve a yellow? Yes. Did the ref make the right call? Yes. Would it have been a more enjoyable finish to me as a neutral viewer if A) Fernandez hadn't made a foolish challenge or B) he wasn't already on a yellow? Also yes.

Whose fault was it? Fernandez's.
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If that's the interpretation, why is there a "this is bad for the sport" claim?
 
#561      
blackdog
Roundball Sage said:
A courageous but overmatched squad from South America couldn’t find one more miracle.

They almost did. But playing a man down doomed them to the likely inevitable. Still, it was a gutsy performance of either deliberately using rope-a-dope all match to get to a game climax... or being forced into rope-a-dope by a stronger Spanish squad.

They left it all on the pitch. That’s their sense of satisfaction.

And Messi’s World Cup dreams may be over... but he’s not done. To the joy and benefit of South Florida and MLS fans.
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You mean the shameless dirty Argentines got exactly what they deserved by being run into the ground the entire game before losing? They played like thugs the entire tournament and them attacking the Spanish players celebrating was just the cherry on top. If there was true karma they would have lost in the group stages.
 
#562      
the juiceman cometh
Fly Illini Fly! said:
I mean, does this deserve to be his first yellow?

https://twitter.com/x/status/2079029811960328439

https://twitter.com/x/status/2078985620957831216
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Enzo with a clear dive. Deserves yellow, ref decides to cut him a break (already been over this, but refs should stop doing this). Instead of accepting this lucky break, Enzo dissents, which can also be a yellow. Ref decides not to cut him a break on that one. Enzo does enough to get a second yellow when he sarcastically applauds the ref, gets another break.

Guy got one yellow card for three offenses that are cardable.
 
#564      
KBLEE
Fly Illini Fly! said:
It's just bad for the sport for a red card / double yellow to determine a World Cup Final.

I'm not saying it wasn't a card. It's just as a viewer... that's not what you want determining a World Cup Final.

Much more encouraging to see the winner get crowned 11 v 11.
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Argentina should have been down to 9 men. No idea how Paredes was still on the pitch when the match ended. And, based on what he did after the last whistle, I hope he gets a significant ban.
 
#565      
Fly Illini Fly!
iFlyBy said:
If that's the interpretation, why is there a "this is bad for the sport" claim?
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Lets say it wasn't bad for the sport. But it was bad for the VIEWERS.

Seeing a game get decided 10 vs 11, when the outcome was obvious and inevitable... is just alot less fun than seeing it determined 11 vs 11.

Spain was the better team, but at that point it was still 0-0, and anybody's game.

Was the call wrong? No. Was there anything the official should've done different? No.

But it's just best for everybody (not named Spain) if the whole thing didn't turn out the way it did, and the match stayed 11 vs 11.
 
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#566      
Fly Illini Fly!
Dallas Illini 91 said:
I interpreted the comment merely as preferring that the match finish 11v11. Did it deserve a yellow? Yes. Did the ref make the right call? Yes. Would it have been a more enjoyable finish to me as a neutral viewer if A) Fernandez hadn't made a foolish challenge or B) he wasn't already on a yellow? Also yes.

Whose fault was it? Fernandez's.
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Yes, that's basically all I was getting at.
 
#567      
AnnoyedWithGarza
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Lets say it wasn't bad for the sport. But it was bad for the VIEWERS.

Seeing a game get decided 10 vs 11, when the outcome was obvious and inevitable... is just alot less fun than seeing it determined 11 vs 11.

Spain was the better team, but at that point it was still 0-0, and anybody's game.

Was the call wrong? No. Was there anything the official should've done different? No.

But it's just best for everybody (not named Spain) if the whole thing didn't turn out the way it did, and the match stayed 11 vs 11.
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Why doesn't soccer just go the basketball route and remove that player but keep the sides equal?

I have never understood the removal of a player and not getting to sub.
 
#568      
the juiceman cometh
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Lets say it wasn't bad for the sport. But it was bad for the VIEWERS.

Seeing a game get decided 10 vs 11, when the outcome was obvious and inevitable... is just alot less fun than seeing it determined 11 vs 11.

Spain was the better team, but at that point it was still 0-0, and anybody's game.

Was the call wrong? No. Was there anything the official should've done different? No.

But it's just best for everybody (not named Spain) if the whole thing didn't turn out the way it did, and the match stayed 11 vs 11.
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If that's all you're saying then I guess sure...

But that red card was an extremely minor issue compared to the real problem with this match which was Argentina's entire approach to the game. I've seen plenty games where a side is down a man that were far more competitive and interesting than this one was before Argentina went down a man. Heck, I don't think letting Argentina have a 12th man would have solved the problem.

It's sad because I actually am a Messi fan. But his teammates just don't have the quality and so resort to trying to frustrate the oppsosing team with a lot of aggressive play and then hope some flash of Messi brilliance can bail them out. If they actually tried to play soccer they'd still probably lose but at least it would be a fun watch.
 
#569      
the juiceman cometh
AnnoyedWithGarza said:
Why doesn't soccer just go the basketball route and remove that player but keep the sides equal?

I have never understood the removal of a player and not getting to sub.
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Because then it's not a deterrent. In fact, what would prevent a player who knows they're getting subbed out from just being really aggressive and reckless since they know they're going out anyway?

Deterrence is more important in soccer because there are legs flying out at each other with levels of force that you're not going to get from someone slapping a shooter on the arm or something. The types of injuries you see happen from reckless challenges don't really have a basketball equivalent. How many times has a foul in basketball led to a compound fracture? Usually in basketball horrific injuries are caused by awkward landings moreso than fouls.

That's why there's a difference between regular fouls and cards, and specific guidelines for cards. Cards are meant to be harsh, because they're used for conduct that the powers that be want to remove from the sport as much as possible.
 
#570      
AnnoyedWithGarza
the juiceman cometh said:
Because then it's not a deterrent. In fact, what would prevent a player who knows they're getting subbed out from just being really aggressive and reckless since they know they're going out anyway?

Deterrence is more important in soccer because there are legs flying out at each other with levels of force that you're not going to get from someone slapping a shooter on the arm or something. The types of injuries you see happen from reckless challenges don't really have a basketball equivalent. How many times has a foul in basketball led to a compound fracture? Usually in basketball horrific injuries are caused by awkward landings moreso than fouls.

That's why there's a difference between regular fouls and cards, and specific guidelines for cards. Cards are meant to be harsh, because they're used for conduct that the powers that be want to remove from the sport as much as possible.
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How about hockey then?
 
#571      
Seppuku
Fly Illini Fly! said:
I mean, does this deserve to be his first yellow?

https://twitter.com/x/status/2079029811960328439

https://twitter.com/x/status/2078985620957831216
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Considering that one of the main reasons Argentina made it to the final game was the Swiss player getting 2nd yellow and thus red card (on BS VAR—the “mistaken identity” loophole), I’d say absolutely.

That was clear dive. He also committed 2-3 fouls that each could/should have warranted a yellow card.

Argentina benefited so much of favorable/biased officiating (including VAR) they really can’t complain.
 
#572      
the juiceman cometh
AnnoyedWithGarza said:
How about hockey then?
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Hockey players wear tons of pads, high levels of physicality are part of the game. There are fouls of course, and those fouls are punished with the hockey team going down a man for a period of time. If you made that permanent, you'd soon get to the point where the game is unplayable because it's keeper vs. keeper. Not at all comparable.

For major penalties, the team goes down a man for 5 minutes. That's a huge penalty in the context of hockey, where each team has five skaters on the ice at a time. To go down a man for 5 minutes in a 60-minute game where a counter-attack can happen in about 3 seconds, would be the equivalent of a soccer team going down two players for about 15 minutes (a really fast counter attack takes at least 6 seconds). In most cases that would be a harsher penalty than going down a single man for the rest of the match.

The other major difference is that in both basketball and hockey, heavy rotations are part of the sport so a player going off and not being able to go back in, or having to stay off for a period of time, does cause a fairly significant disruption. In soccer, subs do not go back in when they come out, so the penalty for a red card of a player being replaced isn't really even a penalty, it's just a regular sub. The basketball equivalent would be if someone gets his 5th foul he has to come out of the game, but you're allowed to sub him back in at the next opportunity.
 
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#574      
IlliniUnited
Seppuku said:
Considering that one of the main reasons Argentina made it to the final game was the Swiss player getting 2nd yellow and thus red card (on BS VAR—the “mistaken identity” loophole), I’d say absolutely.

That was clear dive. He also committed 2-3 fouls that each could/should have warranted a yellow card.

Argentina benefited so much of favorable/biased officiating (including VAR) they really can’t complain.
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Enzo should have been sent off in the 3rd minute of the previous game.
 
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