Ayo Dosunmu & Kofi Cockburn Named Sporting News All-Americans

Piotyr said:

Again, not that it pertains specifically to POY, but Iowa actually finished with the 7th best defensive efficiency in B1G play, ahead of teans like Ohio State and Michigan State.

Funnily enough, they were still below league average by a bit because Michigan and Illinois was so good they basically lapped the field

Click to expand...

So...are you trying to argue that Garza is actually an average or better defender? Because lots of Iowa fans themselves would begrudgingly disagree with you.

I guess you could make the argument for Garza that he was so inept defensively the last couple yeara that merely becoming average/slightly below average is a huge improvement?

AirNeezy said:

So...are you trying to argue that Garza is actually an average or better defender? Because lots of Iowa fans themselves would begrudgingly disagree with you.

I guess you could make the argument for Garza that he was so inept defensively the last couple yeara that merely becoming average/slightly below average is a huge improvement?

Click to expand...

I'm saying that statistically Iowa performed better defensively with him on the floor than off. You are countering with anecdotal and meaningless platitudes that have no factual basis and are being argumentative for argument sake, trying to build a strawman that you can more easily take down.

I'm just saying "Luke Garza had an absurd year offensively, and that's still worthy of being player of the year even if not as good defensively as Ayo", and your response seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending things to be true that aren't.

Double ACL said:

I would love Michigan to bow out early, we win the B1G. Then beat them in the final four.

Click to expand...

0-2 would please me

Piotyr said:

I'm saying that statistically Iowa performed better defensively with him on the floor than off. You are countering with anecdotal and meaningless platitudes that have no factual basis and are being argumentative for argument sake, trying to build a strawman that you can more easily take down.

I'm just saying "Luke Garza had an absurd year offensively, and that's still worthy of being player of the year even if not as good defensively as Ayo", and your response seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending things to be true that aren't.

Click to expand...

According to KenPom, Iowa is the 11th best team defensively in the conference. The fact that they are slightly less absolute garbage on defense as a team when Garza plays does not a good defender make.

And my original point was that while Garza had an insane offensive year, that's only half the game if you want to give him NPOY.

Piotyr said:

I'm saying that statistically Iowa performed better defensively with him on the floor than off. You are countering with anecdotal and meaningless platitudes that have no factual basis and are being argumentative for argument sake, trying to build a strawman that you can more easily take down.

I'm just saying "Luke Garza had an absurd year offensively, and that's still worthy of being player of the year even if not as good defensively as Ayo", and your response seems to be sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending things to be true that aren't.

Click to expand...

No your response was that he was an above average defender. Garza had a great year, he was the odds on favorite to win it before the season and played well enough on offense to merit winning the award. We're just saying, its unfortunate that voters don't put more weight on defense as it would have helped Ayo's case... you know because we're Illini fans and want to see our guy win player of the year.

Poe's Law said:

No your response was that he was an above average defender. Garza had a great year, he was the odds on favorite to win it before the season and played well enough on offense to merit winning the award. We're just saying, its unfortunate that voters don't put more weight on defense as it would have helped Ayo's case... you know because we're Illini fans and want to see our guy win player of the year.

Click to expand...

Maybe there is a split in some of the awards. I for one will not spend my time on this board expounding on the ability of someone from Iowa. Don't forget that no one has had Ayo's stats this year for 11 years.

Garza does so many good things and opens up so many shooters for Iowa that I am certain Fran is adamant that he be foremost mindful of not fouling...which results in a fairly non-athletic defensive performance most of the time. If you watch him, he tries to keep his arms straight up when the guy he is guarding is shooting....trying not to foul. He sits when defense is paramount for the same reason. If one really stops to think about it, Garza is a very intelligent player who understands the game but also understands the myriad of reasons he cannot be an aggressive defender. He is not and will never be an elite defender due to his lack of foot speed....nothing he can do about that. Be he can be a smart defender using his size to max effectiveness. Not sure if he will ever be able to guard elite offensive players in the NBA with any kind of effectiveness.....but his offensive contributions almost always put him on the plus side.

That said, I would not trade Ayo for Garza for any reason....but Garza is a really good and smart player.

For an overall game both offense, defense, and basketball IQ I give it to Ayo. Ayo is the closer and will win games in the end. If he hadn't slip last year against MSU we would have won that game. The guy is a dagger in the heart against any team. It baffles me sometimes why other teams do not double him with the ball in his hand in the last few min or seconds of a game. He is an All American and so is Kofi. Go Illini.

This isn’t a court of law everyone, we don’t have to be objective when it comes to our analysis of Garza vs Ayo.

Let’s go nuts here!

Ayo is the best player this year and Garza might be good enough to be Kofi’s backup.

Argument complete.