Basketball Transfer Thread

[Foggy Notion]

I do not think Groce had much of a choice early on, as he had to replace 3 1/2 classes from the get go, once he took over Illinois. The continuous reliance on transfers (including 5th yr) four years into his tenure, and inability to recruit a top-100 PG or C in his first 4 recruiting classes is more of a problem though. We should have been further along recruiting wise as far as talent/roster, but it is what it is. Hopefully the 2017 class is great start towards a better program.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't see the continuous reliance on transfers, except to plug up wholes that are otherwise impossible to fill, like the lack of seniors on the this year's team due to an empty recruiting class from the prior administration. We don't have any transfers sitting out this year, unless you count Thorne, but that is a medical redshirt.

Most teams these days rely on transfers, partly because transfers are so common that they suffer attrition themselves. I don't see it as much of a problem. It is another tool to be used at a coach's discretion. As with freshmen, some transfers work out, and others don't. It happens at every program.

 

[Obelix]

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't see the continuous reliance on transfers, except to plug up wholes that are otherwise impossible to fill, like the lack of seniors on the this year's team due to an empty recruiting class from the prior administration. We don't have any transfers sitting out this year, unless you count Thorne, but that is a medical redshirt.

Most teams these days rely on transfers, partly because transfers are so common that they suffer attrition themselves. I don't see it as much of a problem. It is another tool to be used at a coach's discretion. As with freshmen, some transfers work out, and others don't. It happens at every program.

When you have gone through 4 years and still you have not recruited a top-100 PG or C, and you have had the same problem throughout your whole tenure during those years, the excuse on previous regime holds no water. There is no excuse for that.

Next year's team still has holes at both positions, and we unfortunately expect 6th year seniors (Abrams and Thorne) to fill the holes and potentially some 5th year transfers. The previous regime (which I think is an understatement to say I was not fond of) had little to do with those gaps. Actually Abrams is indeed a player from the previous regime. And Thorne is still a transfer, which if not granted another year (something that nobody should have expected/planned anyway), will leave a huge gap that will have to be filled (hopefully) by another 5th year transfer addition.

Impossible to fill those holes at PG/C in 4 recruiting classes with not a single top-100 PG/C? That is a bad excuse.

 

[homesickalien]

I totally agree Obelix. We needed the transfers the first couple years, but the overall reliance on them has really hurt in building a culture and with leadership. There's not been a lot of continuity.

 

[Newman]

I understand and agree with your point Obelix, but I also agree with the other 1000 posts you've made about us missing out on a top 100 PG/C. It's frustrating, but I'm not sure if it needs to be said on such a regular basis. I think we all can agree that we wish we would have gotten a top 100 PG/C or center, but we didn't until Damonte Williams(yes, I know.. not a true PG, blah blah blah). Here's to wishing that we get Tilmon and Goodwin. I'll be content with that, even with the past failures.

 

[Foggy Notion]

When you have gone through 4 years and still you have not recruited a top-100 PG or C, and you have had the same problem throughout your whole tenure during those years, the excuse on previous regime holds no water. There is no excuse for that.

Next year's team still has holes at both positions, and we unfortunately expect 6th year seniors (Abrams and Thorne) to fill the holes and potentially some 5th year transfers. The previous regime (which I think is an understatement to say I was not fond of) had little to do with those gaps. Actually Abrams is indeed a player from the previous regime. And Thorne is still a transfer, which if not granted another year (something that nobody should have expected/planned anyway), will leave a huge gap that will have to be filled (hopefully) by another 5th year transfer addition.

Impossible to fill those holes at PG/C in 4 recruiting classes with not a single top-100 PG/C? That is a bad excuse.

I'm not making excuses, and the impossible hole I mentioned was in reference to an empty senior class, not specific positions. Regardless, I see nothing wrong with using transfers to fill holes in the roster.

 

[Obelix]

Regardless, I see nothing wrong with using transfers to fill holes in the roster.

Transfers have been part of college basketball and will always be. My statement has nothing do do with liking/disliking transfers and their basketball abilities. I was a big fan of Rice and actually warned about the impact of his loss. And bring me a Thorne every year. But the continuous reliance on transfers every year to fill major holes is a problem.

 

[Foggy Notion]

Transfers have been part of college basketball and will always be. My statement has nothing do do with liking/disliking transfers and their basketball abilities. I was a big fan of Rice and actually warned about the impact of his loss. And bring me a Thorne every year. But the continuous reliance on transfers every year to fill major holes is a problem.

I still don't see the continuous reliance on transfers. Most of the transfer activity happened the first couple of years. As of now, the only transfer potentially projected to be on next year's team would be Thorne, and that is only due to injury (Kipper technically qualifies, but he transferred before his freshman year even started). If anything, transfer activity is slowing down. The fact that Groce's first recruiting class just finished its junior year also increases the need to fill holes that would not otherwise be there with a more established coach.

 

[Obelix]

I still don't see the continuous reliance on transfers. Most of the transfer activity happened the first couple of years. As of now, the only transfer potentially projected to be on next year's team would be Thorne, and that is only due to injury (Kipper technically qualifies, but he transferred before his freshman year even started). If anything, transfer activity is slowing down. The fact that Groce's first recruiting class just finished its junior year also increases the need to fill holes that would not otherwise be there with a more established coach.

I am not sure where you can't see the continuous reliance on transfers to fill holes. This coming year we already have two transfers, Kipper Nichols and Mike Thorne. The fact that Mike Thorne potentially gets a sixth year, does not minimize the fact that Thorne is a transfer you depend on to fill holes at C that you should have otherwise been filled. If Mike does not get a sixth year, you are just going to rely on another transfer (if we are lucky) to fill the hole. If not, we will have the same visible gap that we had when Mike went down. It is not that the gap has been filled or does not exist anymore.

It is not that coaches, including Groce likes transfers and 5th years. It is that he needs them to feel major gaps. Understandable when he took over, the first years. Going into 5th year though, blaming the previous regime does not hold water.

 

[Foggy Notion]

I am not sure where you can't see the continuous reliance on transfers to fill holes. This coming year we already have two transfers, Kipper Nichols and Mike Thorne. The fact that Mike Thorne potentially gets a sixth year, does not minimize the fact that Thorne is a transfer you depend on to fill holes at C that you should have otherwise been filled. If Mike does not get a sixth year, you are just going to rely on another transfer (if we are lucky) to fill the hole. If not, we will have the same visible gap that we had when Mike went down. It is not that the gap has been filled or does not exist anymore.

It is not that coaches, including Groce likes transfers and 5th years. It is that he needs them to feel major gaps. Understandable when he took over, the first years. Going into 5th year though, blaming the previous regime does not hold water.

Look, I don't blame the previous regime for Groce's inability to travel through time and recruit players who would have been seniors this year. I'm not denying that Groce has relied on transfers, but that reliance is gradually diminishing.

 

[homesickalien]

I'm not denying that Groce has relied on transfers, but that reliance is gradually diminishing.

I'd sure hope so, but you might want to hold that statement till we know what the team looks like next year. Who knows what's going to happen with Thorne, Black, Nunn, and Tate. We might have a couple more transfers on the team.

 

[89illinigrad]

I don't know what the big stigma is against transfers. If you want an extreme example of the benefit of transfers, look at the UNLV teams under Tarkanian.

The 1990-91 National Champion team started 4 transfers.

 

[URH Snyder 490]

Though to Sals point juco guys don't tie up that extra year.

I'm all aboard the 5th year train. Louisville started two this year didn't they? I think? Kentucky wanted Thorne and now we know why.

Though I'm always fired up about a transfer-Alex legion, Cosby etc. they get me every time. I fired up for Kipper too lets see how that turns out.

 

[Foggy Notion]

I'd sure hope so, but you might want to hold that statement till we know what the team looks like next year. Who knows what's going to happen with Thorne, Black, Nunn, and Tate. We might have a couple more transfers on the team.

As with all recruiting, the transfer situation is fluid.

 

[FeelYourPaign]

Transfers have been part of college basketball and will always be. My statement has nothing do do with liking/disliking transfers and their basketball abilities. I was a big fan of Rice and actually warned about the impact of his loss. And bring me a Thorne every year. But the continuous reliance on transfers every year to fill major holes is a problem.

I don't see this point at all. I do see that every year we've been approaching the Fall with less talent than we want to have. And by this time of year, Spring, the only talent that a team can get for the upcoming Fall is a transfer. So, teams look at transfers. Taking transfers is opportunistic and it reflects inadequate recruiting success. But you can't really rely on transfers, as they come after the recruiting season. To rely on transfers, you would have to take them first. That is not what happens.

 

[Joel Goodson]

I don't see this point at all. I do see that every year we've been approaching the Fall with less talent than we want to have. And by this time of year, Spring, the only talent that a team can get for the upcoming Fall is a transfer. So, teams look at transfers. Taking transfers is opportunistic and it reflects inadequate recruiting success. But you can't really rely on transfers, as they come after the recruiting season. To rely on transfers, you would have to take them first. That is not what happens.

Precisely. You take transfers to fill holes. We had a lot of holes.

 

[Obelix]

I don't see this point at all. I do see that every year we've been approaching the Fall with less talent than we want to have. And by this time of year, Spring, the only talent that a team can get for the upcoming Fall is a transfer. So, teams look at transfers. Taking transfers is opportunistic and it reflects inadequate recruiting success. But you can't really rely on transfers, as they come after the recruiting season. To rely on transfers, you would have to take them first. That is not what happens.

If you read on post #158 above and others, we are talking about continuous reliance on transfers to fill gaps and holes in our recruiting. Not reliance as an intentional strategy and preference. As per earlier posts, "it is not Groce likes transfers and 5th years. It is that he needs them to fill major gaps." That does indeed reflect inadequate recruiting.

Early on, that was understandable. But 4 years into his tenure, you would have hoped we were further ahead, and not forced to rely/depend on having to look for options in the transfer market to fill major gaps. This has nothing to do with the basketball skills and abilities of specific players. Some of the transfers have been my favorites, Rice in particular, and Thorne is very good.

Again, hopefully the 2017 class is a a new start. But there are reasons we absolutely need an excellent recruiting class and not just a good one.

 

[CrazedUIFan]

I have to agree with Obelix here. To say our reliance on transfers is diminishing isn't true. If Thorne doesn't get his 6th year, I have no doubt we will try to fill that spot with a transfer. While it's become part of the game, it's more about the role we expect these transfers to play. We're looking for them to fill starting or significant roles and that has caused some issues overall.

As Newman pointed out, it goes without saying that Groce's poor recruiting at two very key positions has had a negative impact. Let's hope that tide is changing with the 2017 class. I think the strong point of Groce was we believed he was a great recruiter. What I've seen of his coaching, he really needs some homeruns recruiting. I think he's an average coach.

Let's get Goodman and Tilman and see what he can do!

 

[TEYPAY]

even Kansas is going after transfers...http://www2.kusports.com/news/2016/apr/02/kansas-hoops-notebook-jayhawks-reach-out-delaware-/

- transfers are part of college basketball. If there are around 700 -- that would average about two per school?

 

[IlliniBrave75]

Jon RothsteinVerified account ‏@JonRothstein 2h2 hours ago
Arkansas transfer Jimmy Whitt has received interest from Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, Wiscosnin, and NC State, source told @CBSSports.

 

[IlliniBrave75]

Gary ParrishVerified account ‏@GaryParrishCBS 1h1 hour ago
Worth noting: Valpo’s Alec Peters can likely graduate this summer and transfer, sources told @CBSSports. Averaged 18.4 ppg and 8.5 rpg.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Gary ParrishVerified account ‏@GaryParrishCBS 1h1 hour ago
Worth noting: Valpo’s Alec Peters can likely graduate this summer and transfer, sources told @CBSSports. Averaged 18.4 ppg and 8.5 rpg.

If this is the case there will be a long line for this guy.

 

[Greensboro]

Gary ParrishVerified account ‏@GaryParrishCBS 1h1 hour ago
Worth noting: Valpo’s Alec Peters can likely graduate this summer and transfer, sources told @CBSSports. Averaged 18.4 ppg and 8.5 rpg.

I like the idea of graduating in summer, maybe puts the decision on a later timetable, which could help us if we have some late fallout on a scholarship.

 

[FlyinIllini 11]

Jeremy Werner Retweeted
Dan Cypra ‏@cypradn 24m24 minutes ago
Per SI, Valpo junior Alec Peters, who averaged 18.4 points and 8.5 rebounds per game, could follow Bryce Drew to Vandy. #yesplease

 

[Soxfreak64]

If Peters transfers it's extremely likely it's to Vandy, so don't get your hopes up.

 

[Prsh]

Gary ParrishVerified account ‏@GaryParrishCBS 1h1 hour ago
Worth noting: Valpo’s Alec Peters can likely graduate this summer and transfer, sources told @CBSSports. Averaged 18.4 ppg and 8.5 rpg.

If he does decide to transfer you have to at least contact him, and who knows, Illini could have a chance there.