Baylor 86, Gonzaga 70

#151      
Yeah they can. They are recruiting at an ultra high level. Suggs going in the top 5 of the draft will tell lot of players of that caliber that its just as rewarding to go to Gonzaga, as it is Duke/Kentucky.

Next year they are bringing in #6 Hunter Sallis, and likely will get #1 Chet Holmgren. You take Kentucky level recruiting, and have Mark Few coach it - yeah I'm thinking they will eventually win it. You get to the FF enough times, eventually you win.
I think that to get ready for the tournament, they need to add some higher level competition late in year. I know it’s tough to do, but other teams have done it. They might lose one or two, but winning the NCAA is more important than being undefeated regular season if they did that by playing sub caliber competition.

It won’t hurt their inter-league performance to add extra games in the middle of inter-league play, given that their league is so weak.
 
#152      
After the Illini played Baylor this season, I never believed they could be beaten by a slower, less talented Gonzaga team, who feasted on cupcakes almost all season. Gonzaga was lucky to compete evenly with 12th seeded UCLA. With their lockdown defense, world class quickness, outstanding shooting ability, and tenacious rebounding, Baylor was absolutely the dominant team in college basketball this season, and deserved the championship.
 
#153      
The PAC 12 will never take Gonzaga, primarily because the school doesn't play football. The WCC is the best non-football conference for basketball that makes geographic sense for Gonzaga. Short of going independent, which doesn't seem workable, the school is pretty well stuck in the WCC. It can only be hoped that other schools in the conference can begin to give the Bulldogs some real competition.

rather than Gonzaga leaving the WCC, the conference needs to bring some better schools in
 
#154      
I hope, for their sake, they can move to the Pac12 sometime soon. They need to already given where they're at relative to the WCC, plus it will remove a lot of the discussion about how good they really are leading into March. We'll find out one way or another if/once they can make that move.

Also, agree with you re: our '05 team. If it weren't for that OSU buzzer beater, I think they'd be talked about a whole lot more, like UNLV.
Would the pac12 take a school without a football team? (I assume without knowing that they don’t have one-or at least not D1)
 
#155      
Baylor 86
Gonzaga 78

I think Timme will be neutralized this game (Vital and Tchatchoua factor). I think Baylor contains Kispert's 3's. The matchups just seem to favor Baylor slightly. I look for Mitchell and Mayer (darkhorse) each to have a big game. Hopefully, the refs will "let them play" and not ruin the game flow.

Lastly, I think this will be a fast-paced, entertaining game. One where we will find out really if "defense wins championships".
Good analysis, and now we know that it does.

I followed Baylor a bit this year, mostly because I was so impressed with Butler. Great leader and someone I enjoyed watching play.
 
#156      
Would the pac12 take a school without a football team? (I assume without knowing that they don’t have one-or at least not D1)
Sounds like a big ole "No" based on what others have said. I admittedly know very little about the criteria for what determines whether a conference would want (or not) to add a given school. My comment was more from the perspective of Gonzaga -- they need to find a way to consistently upgrade the quality of their opponents in their conference schedule (or whatever it may be).
 
#157      
rather than Gonzaga leaving the WCC, the conference needs to bring some better schools in
Who should the WCC take? They will need to be schools with good basketball but no football. Are there a lot of those in the West?
 
#158      
I hope, for their sake, they can move to the Pac12 sometime soon. They need to already given where they're at relative to the WCC, plus it will remove a lot of the discussion about how good they really are leading into March. We'll find out one way or another if/once they can make that move.
A
Not going to happen. No football. Few alumni. No media market to speak of. There is no financial reason for any larger conference to add them. Plus, I suspect that the school administration is comfortable being in a conference with other similarly sized and religiously aligned schools.
 
#159      
Not going to happen. No football. Few alumni. No media market to speak of. There is no financial reason for any larger conference to add them. Plus, I suspect that the school administration is comfortable being in a conference with other similarly sized and religiously aligned schools.
I think this is correct. They're all geographically close, private, and faith based. It's a perfect fit for Gonzaga in every way except basketball. I don't see them making a change just for one sport.
 
#160      
Every year like clockwork Gonzaga fails to live up to their record. Happened a little later this year.
This is blatantly not true and a pretty harsh way to judge being the runner-up this year. We just lost in the round of 32 and yet it's still a celebrated season. They haven't experienced losing in that round since 2014. While we were busy missing the tourney every year, they were making it to the second weekend every year. They made it to the sweet 16 as an 11-seed just five years ago. And they were just in the national title game for the second time in four years, something we've done once.

I don't understand the take that Few would be "challenging himself" any more than he is at a P6 school. He's taken a nothing program to the pinnacle of basketball. He'll likely have two top 6 recruits next year. Outside of the blue bloods, how many other P6 schools have had more recent success in the tourney than them? Two? They have had the type of tourney success that we have -- to this point -- only dreamt about.
 
#161      
Invisible and Bulletproof
Miracle Mile
This is blatantly not true and a pretty harsh way to judge being the runner-up this year. We just lost in the round of 32 and yet it's still a celebrated season. They haven't experienced losing in that round since 2014. While we were busy missing the tourney every year, they were making it to the second weekend every year. They made it to the sweet 16 as an 11-seed just five years ago. And they were just in the national title game for the second time in four years, something we've done once.

I don't understand the take that Few would be "challenging himself" any more than he is at a P6 school. He's taken a nothing program to the pinnacle of basketball. He'll likely have two top 6 recruits next year. Outside of the blue bloods, how many other P6 schools have had more recent success in the tourney than them? Two? They have had the type of tourney success that we have -- to this point -- only dreamt about.
Dan Monson's role in setting the table for Few often gets overlooked by his subsequent mediocrity at Minnesota.
 
#162      
Kelso, WA
rather than Gonzaga leaving the WCC, the conference needs to bring some better schools in
Good point. And the WCC has tried once, when it brought in BYU, which did have the second best team in the WCC this year.
 
#163      
This is blatantly not true and a pretty harsh way to judge being the runner-up this year. We just lost in the round of 32 and yet it's still a celebrated season. They haven't experienced losing in that round since 2014. While we were busy missing the tourney every year, they were making it to the second weekend every year. They made it to the sweet 16 as an 11-seed just five years ago. And they were just in the national title game for the second time in four years, something we've done once.

I don't understand the take that Few would be "challenging himself" any more than he is at a P6 school. He's taken a nothing program to the pinnacle of basketball. He'll likely have two top 6 recruits next year. Outside of the blue bloods, how many other P6 schools have had more recent success in the tourney than them? Two? They have had the type of tourney success that we have -- to this point -- only dreamt about.
Illinois fail isn’t the issue here. Not excusing that at all.

Mark Few will always enter the tourney overrated. This year they were a legit Final 4. Nationally best? Not a chance. Baylor dominated them all game.
In a P6 Gonzaga would have had 2-5 losses. They played 17 games vs NET 99 and above. Won them all. Baylor played 10 games v NET > 99. Won them all too.
Gonzaga is good but they get 5-10 W’s handed them every year having the bottom end of the WCC on their schedule. Only two (K State / Iowa State) in the Big XII had a >99 NET.

Baylor was proven and Gonzaga ... was kind of proven. A still good team. Great tourney run. Spectacular game v UCLA.

And completely overmatched against Baylor. Despite their “unbeaten” record that had half of the good opponents as Baylor’s 2 loss record.

There will always be a discrepancy between Gonzaga fantasy and Gonzaga reality unless the WCC becomes a true P-6 conference. Thats it.
 
#164      
Illinois fail isn’t the issue here. Not excusing that at all.

Mark Few will always enter the tourney overrated. This year they were a legit Final 4. Nationally best? Not a chance. Baylor dominated them all game.
In a P6 Gonzaga would have had 2-5 losses. They played 17 games vs NET 99 and above. Won them all. Baylor played 10 games v NET > 99. Won them all too.
Gonzaga is good but they get 5-10 W’s handed them every year having the bottom end of the WCC on their schedule. Only two (K State / Iowa State) in the Big XII had a >99 NET.

Baylor was proven and Gonzaga ... was kind of proven. A still good team. Great tourney run. Spectacular game v UCLA.

And completely overmatched against Baylor. Despite their “unbeaten” record that had half of the good opponents as Baylor’s 2 loss record.

There will always be a discrepancy between Gonzaga fantasy and Gonzaga reality unless the WCC becomes a true P-6 conference. Thats it.
It would have been interesting if Gonzaga had played Baylor earlier. That probably would have stamped who was #1 and who was #2 for the entire season. As is, though, they were 1 and 2 pretty much all season, they both got #1 seeds, and they met in the finals. You could argue that Gonzaga should have been #2 all year, but they were undefeated. If they were overrated, it wasn't by much.
 
#165      
And completely overmatched against Baylor.

You and I weren't watching the same game then. Gonzaga looked like a generational offense, great motion and spacing, weapons everywhere, only beaten by a combination of Baylor being both elite on defense, relentless for 40 minutes, and just barely able to stay out of serious foul trouble. Oh, and they also hit their 3s at a great clip.

Epic game, and kudos to Baylor for never letting up, even for a minute.
 
#166      
There will always be a discrepancy between Gonzaga fantasy and Gonzaga reality unless the WCC becomes a true P-6 conference. Thats it.

Not really. The facts don't support this claim. In Few's 22 years there were 21 tournaments held. They made all of them.

They have underperformed their seed 7 times
outperformed their seed 5 times
9 times performed to their seed.
2 runner-ups in the last 4 years.
10 sweet sixteens or better.

I'm pretty sure 356 D1 teams would love to have that fantasy.
 
#167      
Illinois fail isn’t the issue here. Not excusing that at all.

Mark Few will always enter the tourney overrated. This year they were a legit Final 4. Nationally best? Not a chance. Baylor dominated them all game.
In a P6 Gonzaga would have had 2-5 losses. They played 17 games vs NET 99 and above. Won them all. Baylor played 10 games v NET > 99. Won them all too.
Gonzaga is good but they get 5-10 W’s handed them every year having the bottom end of the WCC on their schedule. Only two (K State / Iowa State) in the Big XII had a >99 NET.

Baylor was proven and Gonzaga ... was kind of proven. A still good team. Great tourney run. Spectacular game v UCLA.

And completely overmatched against Baylor. Despite their “unbeaten” record that had half of the good opponents as Baylor’s 2 loss record.

There will always be a discrepancy between Gonzaga fantasy and Gonzaga reality unless the WCC becomes a true P-6 conference. Thats it.
Can't really say that Gonzaga was overrated this year. Yeah, they lost the title game, but they are one of the best two teams in the country just like they have been all year.

You can even begin to make the argument that they are the premier program in the country one now. Would have been easier had they won last night, but now that they are getting top recruits and sending them to the NBA and making multiple final fours in five year spans there is a lot to like there.
 
#168      
How Zags came out against Baylor was a replay of how The Beloved came out against that North Side school. Low energy, no energy, got in hole, stayed in hole. Look confused. Couldn’t find a way out.

The Baylor story is even more intriguing than the Perfect Season narrative. Taking a program from the scrap heap all the way to being club that could compete with some current NBA rosters. Bears were the Texas version of Every Day Guys. They said as much in interviews about how they approached the season.

Baylor has built a powerhouse of Men's and Women’s roundball and Big 12 football. They will be a force for years to come.
 
#169      
Gonzaga and Few will begin to get some of respect from me when they’re willing to play an actual non-con road game. It’s ridiculous how highly rated they are when they refuse to play any true road games.

The only true road games they played the ENTIRE season were:
@Portland (327)
@St Mary’s (62)
@BYU (20)
@San Diego (250)
@Pepperdine (110)
@San Francisco (105)

That would be like the Illini playing ONLY
@Chicago State (346)
@Indiana (63)
@Purdue (22)
@North Carolina A&T (284)
@Nebraska (126)
@Northwestern (92)
 
#170      
Gonzaga and Few will begin to get some of respect from me when they’re willing to play an actual non-con road game. It’s ridiculous how highly rated they are when they refuse to play any true road games.

The only true road games they played the ENTIRE season were:
@Portland (327)
@St Mary’s (62)
@BYU (20)
@San Diego (250)
@Pepperdine (110)
@San Francisco (105)

That would be like the Illini playing ONLY
@Chicago State (346)
@Indiana (63)
@Purdue (22)
@North Carolina A&T (284)
@Nebraska (126)
@Northwestern (92)
You are cherry picking one year. Look back over the past 15 years. They don't duck anyone. They play plenty of P5 teams away. This season was not the norm for their non-conference schedule. For example, we played them two, three year series of home/away/neutral.
 
#171      
Looking at 2019-2020...

They played an additional 3 games and. It isn’t quite anyone anywhere.
@ Arizona (14) (who went 10-8 in the PAC10)
@Texas A&M (113) (who went 10-8 in the SEC)
@Washington (58) (who went 5-13 in the PAC10)
 
#174      
Gonzaga and Few will begin to get some of respect from me when they’re willing to play an actual non-con road game. It’s ridiculous how highly rated they are when they refuse to play any true road games.

The only true road games they played the ENTIRE season were:
@Portland (327)
@St Mary’s (62)
@BYU (20)
@San Diego (250)
@Pepperdine (110)
@San Francisco (105)

That would be like the Illini playing ONLY
@Chicago State (346)
@Indiana (63)
@Purdue (22)
@North Carolina A&T (284)
@Nebraska (126)
@Northwestern (92)

It takes two to schedule. I'm sure a lot of P6 teams don't want to schedule them for a traditional Home & Home series. Gonzaga usually plays tough Neutral site games each year, like the Baylor game in Indy that was cancelled in December.
 
#175      
Not really. The facts don't support this claim. In Few's 22 years there were 21 tournaments held. They made all of them.

They have underperformed their seed 7 times
outperformed their seed 5 times
9 times performed to their seed.
2 runner-ups in the last 4 years.
10 sweet sixteens or better.

I'm pretty sure 356 D1 teams would love to have that fantasy.
Exactly.

You know Gonzaga has "made it" when a 31-1, National Runner Up season is considered underachieving lol.... Mark Few is the best coach in college basketball period. There's nobody that could build what he's built anywhere else.