CFP 12-team expansion beginning in 2024

#26      

Ransom Stoddard

Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Ransom Stoddard
RML said:
Meh, I'm in the minority. I can't imagine any special thrill from "making the playoff" when it's a 12 team playoff: no more than finishing, say, in the top 12 in the post season rankings. (Sure, it gives a better chance of winning the championship, but (in my view) it's a lesser "championship" if it's occasionally awarded to teams that weren't really the best team that year.)

Is it good for college football? People have talked in the past about the extra practices afforded to current bowl teams gives them a leg up the following year. I'm guessing that a 12 team playoff (spanning a month) will multiply that affect: if the Georgias and the Ohio States get an extra three or four weeks of football EVERY SINGLE YEAR, it's going to make it really hard to knock them out of "premiere" status. Maybe it's entertaining to entrench premiere teams, but it's not my idea of "good for college football."
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You wouldn't be thrilled with a top 12 AP ranking in December? A chance to play 3 more games and get a Natty?

As far as continuing to entrench the programs you named--that's what a 12 team playoff does, it protects the top seeds. Make it 16, nobody gets a week off, and the UGAs, Bamas, tOSU, etc. are no longer entrenched. They may still be premier, (just like Duke, KU, and NC are usually premier in MBB), but they don't get that guaranteed path to the Championship anymore.
 
#27      

RML

R
RML
Ransom Stoddard said:
You wouldn't be thrilled with a top 12 AP ranking in December? A chance to play 3 more games and get a Natty?

As far as continuing to entrench the programs you named--that's what a 12 team playoff does, it protects the top seeds. Make it 16, nobody gets a week off, and the UGAs, Bamas, tOSU, etc. are no longer entrenched. They may still be premier, (just like Duke, KU, and NC are usually premier in MBB), but they don't get that guaranteed path to the Championship anymore.
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I would be thrilled with a top 12 ranking at the end of the year regardless of whether we make some playoff. (In '05, I was happier with a year end unanimous no.1 ranking in hoops than I was with making the NCAA tournament. In fact, I toyed with suggesting that we just skip the tournament, since it was unnecessary to decide who was the best team that year.)
The point I was trying to make about premiere teams was that those teams getting a month longer season every year increases the divide between the haves and the have nots, not that it affects who exactly wins the playoffs in any given year. In other words, there will be eight or so teams who make the playoffs every single year (and thus get a month longer season than most other teams) and the rest of us will be shooting for the spots in a playoff where would need to beat three of those perpetual extended season teams, three weeks in a row. I suppose some outsider team will someday do it (and become legendary for doing it), but in terms of the same teams winning it every year, I think this system will make it worse, not better.
 
#29      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
@ChiefGritty did you write this?

www.sfchronicle.com

The Rose Bowl is dead, killed by our winner-take-all culture. Humanity may be up next

The Rose Bowl game is one such sacred ritual that inspired togetherness. Its death takes...
www.sfchronicle.com www.sfchronicle.com
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I did not, but it's nice to see the truth!

There is a lot of humanity's elevation of the profane over the sacred in the destruction of the Rose Bowl. But it's mostly just the power structure in college football failing to understand where their bread is buttered.
 
#30      

Illiniguy74

I
Illiniguy74
ChiefGritty said:
I did not, but it's nice to see the truth!

There is a lot of humanity's elevation of the profane over the sacred in the destruction of the Rose Bowl. But it's mostly just the power structure in college football failing to understand where their bread is buttered.
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While I agree that Americans are bitterly divided by politics, region and identity" and that "humanity is on a suicidal course, headed straight for catastrophe.” due to our gluttonous (in all thins) nature, I disagree that "Our systems, in everything from business to governments, spread division through competitions that identify an uber-winner, making everyone else a loser." Being a national champion does not define success. There are many, many winners in life. I consider Illinois football successful this year and we all should be proud of what they achieved.
 
#33      

Point-Illinois

P
Point-Illinois
ChiefGritty said:
On the one hand that's head-slappingly obvious.

On the other, how is that not pay-for-play exactly?

Like the players do a lot of goofy promotional stuff for the bowls and always have, so sure, pay them big bucks for it. But what's stopping the Brown twins from doing that and then not just playing?
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Is there money for the NCAA in bowl games like in March Madness? (I’m assuming the NCAA gets a fat check during MM)

If so, the NCAA will work around it. Maybe saying bowl games outside the playoffs are considered giant marketing events/exhibition games and then change their own rules to allow pay-for-play stipulations specific to those events?
 
#34      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Point-Illinois said:
Is there money for the NCAA in bowl games like in March Madness?
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There is not.

The NCAA makes all its money from TV rights and advertising around its hosting of national championships in the various sports, for which as we know the only exception is the Football Bowl Subdivision. The NCAA makes nothing from the bowls or the CFP.

The TV deal for March Madness is basically the NCAA's entire budget, something like 80-90%
 
#35      

Point-Illinois

P
Point-Illinois
ChiefGritty said:
There is not.

The NCAA makes all its money from TV rights and advertising around its hosting of national championships in the various sports, for which as we know the only exception is the Football Bowl Subdivision. The NCAA makes nothing from the bowls or the CFP.

The TV deal for March Madness is basically the NCAA's entire budget, something like 80-90%
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Maybe enough pressure from the bowl sponsors will get the NCAA to change its rules about NIL for these specific games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
#36      

Mr. Tibbs

Mr. Tibbs
southeast DuPage
Mr. Tibbs
the NCAA doesn’t care about bowls or bowl sponsors , as they make zero money from them

what kind of pressure could the bowls exert ?
 
#37      

Point-Illinois

P
Point-Illinois
Mr. Tibbs said:
the NCAA doesn’t care about bowls or bowl sponsors , as they make zero money from them

what kind of pressure could the bowls exert ?
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I dunno, at one point the NCAA thought it could keep pushing the NIL issue down the road. Then some states had enough and made it happen and the NCAA folded.

There’s always a way. I mean, other than the playoffs, these bowls are one-off marketing shows where players have been paid in swag.

Im sure there is an avenue in there to make it worthwhile for players to play by paying them with money.

Though I’m not sure anything a bowl could give Spoon would trump first round type money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
#38      

BZuppke

BZuppke
Plainfield
BZuppke
This whole thing is out of whack and spiraling out of control. Money is king and college football is becoming ‘minor league NFL’. Younger generations unharnessed from tradition are buying into it and it is becoming the new norm. One can certainly argue that we’re only dropping the pretense of student athlete as that went out the window long ago, but the crassness of this evolution seems to cheapen and denigrate the whole sport. Schools openly bidding for talent, college athletes with six figure NIL etc. is distasteful.

Nothing can stop this train and those of us who remember the quaint debates amongst schools as to which poll crowned them national champions can only watch with dismay as the unique magic and tradition of college football disappears forever.
 
#39      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
BZuppke said:
This whole thing is out of whack and spiraling out of control. Money is king and college football is becoming ‘minor league NFL’. Younger generations unharnessed from tradition are buying into it and it is becoming the new norm. One can certainly argue that we’re only dropping the pretense of student athlete as that went out the window long ago, but the crassness of this evolution seems to cheapen and denigrate the whole sport. Schools openly bidding for talent, college athletes with six figure NIL etc. is distasteful.

Nothing can stop this train and those of us who remember the quaint debates amongst schools as to which poll crowned them national champions can only watch with dismay as the unique magic and tradition of college football disappears forever.
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Of the many frustrating things about being a longtime "college football should stay forever exactly like it was in 1980 except the players getting paid should be over the table rather than under" partisan is the way player compensation issues now get lumped in with the broader teardowns of the fabric of the sport.

I always knew that would happen, and honestly it's not entirely wrong, but I stand firm in my conviction that this could have all gone a different way if leadership was more forward-thinking on how to get players a cut of the sport's exploding revenues back a decade or two ago.
 
#40      

spotter

S
spotter
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
@ChiefGritty did you write this?

www.sfchronicle.com

The Rose Bowl is dead, killed by our winner-take-all culture. Humanity may be up next

The Rose Bowl game is one such sacred ritual that inspired togetherness. Its death takes...
www.sfchronicle.com www.sfchronicle.com
Click to expand...

When I was young, I was excited to see that there was football on ALL DAY on New Years day. And my dad told me that the Rose Bowl was the most important bowl game in the country, with that game helping decide which college football team was number one. Add to the fact that Big 10 teams (even Illinois sometimes!) were always in the game of such national importance made for familiar schools to root for. Plus, over 100,000 people there, a beautiful backdrop and even the women in our family showing a passing interest in the game, it has been ingrained that the Rose Bowl is truly the biggest college football game of all. Now, it will be Georgia vs. Kansas State in some quarterfinal? Barf

I'd prefer going back to 12 bowl games and a bunch of old, corpulent writers voting in the national champion. But I also like yelling at clouds.
 
#41      

the juiceman cometh

T
the juiceman cometh
ChiefGritty said:
Of the many frustrating things about being a longtime "college football should stay forever exactly like it was in 1980 except the players getting paid should be over the table rather than under" partisan is the way player compensation issues now get lumped in with the broader teardowns of the fabric of the sport.

I always knew that would happen, and honestly it's not entirely wrong, but I stand firm in my conviction that this could have all gone a different way if leadership was more forward-thinking on how to get players a cut of the sport's exploding revenues back a decade or two ago.
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I'll take it a step futher for you. The forces/rationale behind playoff expansion are the same forces that were against player compensation, NIL, player unionization etc.

By and large playoff expansion doesn't exactly jive with principles of player welfare or fair compensation. It's more games (and thus work) for players, to generate more revenue the players don't get a share of. If there was a college football players' union, it would surely oppose this expansion, the same way the NFL players union initially opposed the expansion of the season to 17 games (the NFL had to throw in an increase of players' revenue share to get the expansion passed, and it was a close vote).
 
#42      

SnakePlissken

S
SnakePlissken
the juiceman cometh said:
I'll take it a step futher for you. The forces/rationale behind playoff expansion are the same forces that were against player compensation, NIL, player unionization etc.

By and large playoff expansion doesn't exactly jive with principles of player welfare or fair compensation. It's more games (and thus work) for players, to generate more revenue the players don't get a share of. If there was a college football players' union, it would surely oppose this expansion, the same way the NFL players union initially opposed the expansion of the season to 17 games (the NFL had to throw in an increase of players' revenue share to get the expansion passed, and it was a close vote).
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Don't you think some of the players will just oppose the expansion by opting out?
 
#43      

Ransom Stoddard

Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Ransom Stoddard
SnakePlissken said:
Don't you think some of the players will just oppose the expansion by opting out?
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You're suggesting players would opt out of playing for a championship?

Most bowl games are meaningless for guys who expect to be invited to the draft combine, so opting out of those (as much as it irks a lot of fans), isn't really a big deal. A playoff series is a whole different monster because there's something incredibly meaningful at the end.

To put it into context, that would have been like Banchero opting out of the NCAA tournament last year.
 
#44      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal
mattcoldagelli
BZuppke said:
those of us who remember the quaint debates amongst schools as to which poll crowned them national champions can only watch with dismay as the unique magic and tradition of college football disappears forever.
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Very weird to see people outing themselves as thinking the "some writers say this team was best, others disagree....nothing else can be done!" system was a feature of The Way Things Used to Be, as opposed to a bug everyone dealt with in lieu of a better solution.
 
#45      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
mattcoldagelli said:
Very weird to see people outing themselves as thinking the "some writers say this team was best, others disagree....nothing else can be done!" system was a feature of The Way Things Used to Be, as opposed to a bug everyone dealt with in lieu of a better solution.
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I can say with clear eyes and pure heart that I thought that at the time too.

Once the national championship became the point of college football, the dark clouds rolled in.
 
#46      

SnakePlissken

S
SnakePlissken
Ransom Stoddard said:
You're suggesting players would opt out of playing for a championship?
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Yes, I absolutely expect to see that in the near future.

Ransom Stoddard said:
Most bowl games are meaningless for guys who expect to be invited to the draft combine, so opting out of those (as much as it irks a lot of fans), isn't really a big deal.
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The level of meaningfulness is in the eye of the beholder. The number of opt-outs is increasing much faster than the increase in NFL wage scale, so it's not like there's some new math involved. It's just becoming more acceptable (fashionable? not sure of the right word...) to make that personal business decision to not play with your team in the bowl game.

Ransom Stoddard said:
A playoff series is a whole different monster because there's something incredibly meaningful at the end.
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Incredibly meaningful to whom? Some kids will grow up dreaming of a national title. Others will grow up dreaming of an NFL payday, and college is just a way to get there. Why risk that future in pursuit of a national title that has no dollar value?

Ransom Stoddard said:
To put it into context, that would have been like Banchero opting out of the NCAA tournament last year.
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Or like opting out of college altogether, which many did when the NBA allowed it.

I'm obviously negative on this playoff concept and the future of college sports in general, but I also think it's naïve to think the opt-out momentum is going to be slowed by an expanded playoff system.
 
#47      

spotter

S
spotter
ChiefGritty said:
I can say with clear eyes and pure heart that I thought that at the time too.

Once the national championship became the point of college football, the dark clouds rolled in.
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Up until about 40-years ago winning the Rose/Sugar/Orange/Fiesta/Cotton Bowl was the season's goal. If a team had 3-4 losses they might be able to lobby an invitation to the Gator/Peach/Liberty Bowl.

Now the national championship is the goal. The CPF means 11 out of 12 programs, who ended their year with a bowl game reward, will now end their year with a playoff loss. I get plenty of armageddon post-season in the NFL and March Madness. I don't need it in college football. But a majority do, so what do I know.
 
#48      

WWWWRocU

W
Herndon, VA
WWWWRocU
How about if Altmeyer guides us to that first 12-team CFP play-off game and decides not to play because he knows he is going pro?
 
#49      

JFGsCoffeeMug

JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
JFGsCoffeeMug
WWWWRocU said:
How about if Altmeyer guides us to that first 12-team CFP play-off game and decides not to play because he knows he is going pro?
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Honestly?
Happy Wheel Of Fortune GIF by ABC Network
 
#50      

WWWWRocU

W
Herndon, VA
WWWWRocU
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
Honestly?
Happy Wheel Of Fortune GIF by ABC Network
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I know. Reality really bites, doesn't it?
This program is now knocking on the CFP door. I would think that this coaching staff would now be scheming to keep us there on a year to year basis. Having a QB for 3 years, to maintain consistency for the program, is ideal. So you up the NIL money every year to keep him here.