Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
My position as well.
Chicago Bears 2026
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but did you ever consider that Indiana would offer a $1 billion dollar sweeter deal ?
at some point money matters
Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
Of course you're correct and it's usually me here making the money > any other factor argument.
If it is strictly about the stadium and football games, then Indiana may win. But I've always considered the larger picture, meaning shopping / restaurants / entertainment venues around the stadium. I think there are a lot of commercial ways to add value to the deal, and those commercial values in the Arlington / Schaumburg / Rolling Meadows area are much more plentiful than in Hammond / Gary / Cal City.
Really just a corollary to my "the whales ain't in Whiting" post yesterday.
yea , but the McCaskeys aren’t real estate guys like Stan Kroenke is and would likely have sold off the majority of those “developable” parcels in AH anyway .
We know that if Indiana would offer a totally free stadium the Bears would be fools to not accept immediately. The deal obviously isn’t that sweet , but there e obviously is a number where the Bears can be convinced to give up AH and just sell it now . my guess is they can still get made whole on their investment , or close to it .
developing Hammond is a tough task . but that really isn’t the Bears problem .
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
But on this front, the Bears have no idea what they're doing, whereas Stan Kroenke and Zygi Wilf were in their comfort zone on this stuff.
Many problems with this--the Bears bought the property knowing what the property tax rate is, and property is taxed even before the stadium is built. It's a pretty simple formula based on property value. And since the Bears purchased the land for $197MM, pretty much by definition, its value is $197MM. Not sure if the Bears are that clueless or if it was an act, but it was hilarious for them to balk when the tax bill came.
Suddenly the Bears valuation of the property was seemingly less than the $197MM they just paid for it. lol. I can't believe they had the balls to go to these assessments arguing that they just overpaid by $100MM+. Only the Bears.
I'm not sure what you mean with your last paragraph? For sure it would be a housing development. It's in AH, right next to a Metra stop. Developers would be falling over themselves at the chance. Assuming a mix of single family, condo, townhouses at a 20 units/acre, you're at 6,000 units. And conservatively, at $15k property tax/unit, you're at $90MM/year in property tax. That's versus the Bears' expected bill of $53MM without any tax breaks.
first of all Im no fan of Bears ownership . They goof up just about everything they touch .
but there are flaws in your “logic” regarding real estate taxes
the biggest portion of real estate taxes in Illinois is for all school district related stuff . residential real estate burdens school districts WAY more than commercial or industrial property , which obviously contributes ZERO burden to the schools .
my point is , 3 billion of residential real estate should rightfully have a real estate tax burden that is way higher than a 3 billion stadium . the taxes collected from commercial property are usually sales taxes etc, so police , fire & municipal expenses get paid for largely that way along with some real estate taxes
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I don't agree with this.
A "free" stadium in the wrong place that doesn't cultivate the team's brand and provide the platform for other sorts of events and development opportunities is MUCH MUCH more costly than doing it right at multibillion upfront expense.
Now, I don't know if it's IMPOSSIBLE for Indiana to offer the "right" stadium (and I'm also deeply skeptical of Arlington Heights on the same basis) but the Wolf Lake plan ain't it.
The McCaskey family isn't rich enough to do what would ultimately be best for the Chicago Bears, which is turn the tables and make the CITY/STATE an offer it can't refuse to just buy Soldier Field, pay off the bond overhang and invest in the infrastructure of the surrounding area itself. That's a coalition that could generate whatever voter/taxpayer support it needed to crush the hippie/NIMBYs.
They should have been preparing to sell when Virginia died. This mom and pop operation is going to cheapen a can't-miss brand over the longer term.
as much as you can’t get your head around it , an offer of a free 3.5 billion stadium would be accepted in a heartbeat .
is it a great move ? no
but neither was Foxborough or Miami Garden and both are working out decently .
you just don’t want them to move under any circumstances, and I can see it happening if Pritzker can’t make up his mind . and I don’t think he can
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Well right, we are agreeing on that.
To be very clear, *I* do not care. NFL games stink in person anyway and with 8/9 dates a year for which suburbanites drive in and drive out they bring next to no value to the city.
I'm just thinking in terms of what would be the strongest and most valuable platform for the Bears franchise as a business and a cultural touchstone for the next century, which is how Warren and the McCaskey's ought to be thinking as the franchise owners who would stand to benefit, but aren't. As I said, to really do this right you'd need to be a real multibillionaire, not a family shop whose entire wealth is the team itself.
My assumption of the Bears thinking has been that the total ownership and control of all ancillary revenue streams, events, and other development opportunities in Arlington has had total buy-in from day 1, and all of the rest has been a tempest in a teapot about squeezing as much extra goodies and cost limitation out of that package as they could. But everybody is getting real cranky, there's no doubt of that.
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I haven’t been to a Bear game in person at new or old SF in over 25 years .
I won’t go to a game in whichever new place they play either . I prefer to watch them at home
I really thought they were going to sell when Virginia died and let Jeff Bezos or another billionaire do the heavy lifting with the new stadium , as we all knew Kevin Warren doesnt hsve the horsepower, and no one else in that organization does .
so we get stuck with a room full of idiots, with the Bears & the all the state pols and we wonder why nothing gets done ?
what has our Guv ever negotiated?
what has Warren ever done ?
I won’t go to a game in whichever new place they play either . I prefer to watch them at home
I really thought they were going to sell when Virginia died and let Jeff Bezos or another billionaire do the heavy lifting with the new stadium , as we all knew Kevin Warren doesnt hsve the horsepower, and no one else in that organization does .
so we get stuck with a room full of idiots, with the Bears & the all the state pols and we wonder why nothing gets done ?
what has our Guv ever negotiated?
what has Warren ever done ?
Fair point, and residential real estate will have a higher tax revenue. Really just wanted to show that AH and the schools will be fine if the Bears don't go there.
I just don't understand why folks think it's so bad for IL if the Bears move. The public always loses in publicly funded stadiums (whether they're paying upfront to build it or deferred with tax breaks).
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KBLEE
- Montgomery, IL
It's only been ~ 10 years for me, but getting to Soldier Field from the Western Suburbs is a pain. Moving them further away will not make me any more interested in attending. I was actually hoping for the Arlington Heights location, as the commute there would be much more reasonable.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Warren was credited with spearheading the Vikings process of siting and building what is now regarded as one of the best stadiums in the league, and Pritzker's sale of the Thompson Center to Google is the basic shape of what I have in mind for Solider Field (though that's owned by the city).
But again I return to, even if the individual points of right-wing grievance are 100% factually true, right-wing grievance as a tone and mode of argument is not and inherently cannot be the Bears' ally in this process, playing those notes will always push them further away from their goal working in such a blue state. It's so tempting to reach for "there go Illinois Democrats again" as a rhetorical cudgel because there are so many sympathetic ears nationally, but you play to win the game and strategically the team and its allies should have been more disciplined about avoiding that.
They still think they can blackmail Pritzker with the idea that Indiana would damage his presidential ambitions, and maybe they're right, but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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You're completely missing the part (and the point) about the other tax revenues and economic benefits from having a project like a Bears stadium and related facilities. Sales tax in Chicago/Cook is north of 10%, and that's not even accounting for all the entertainment, hotel, etc. taxes that the towns and county (not sure if state does to) levy. I'm not sure how can you not the see the huge difference in terms of economic return and tax revenue from $3B business development vs. $3B residential real estate.
Also, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the area or not, but you're making a huge unsupported (and unlikely to occur) assumption that those 6,000 units would be bought. That's about 18,000+ people (assuming 3 per unit); where are these people coming from? The town (AH) is not growing, and most of the surrounding areas are similarly not growing population wise (many are actually shrinking). There is no need for new/added 6,000 units/residences in that area. There are also no businesses that would attract new residents, etc. At best, these people who will be moving from other areas in Cook (or maybe the surrounding counties), so you're not truly "adding" property tax revenue; rather, just shifting it from one area to another.
I'm not missing it at all. I believe (and many, many studies back it up) that the benefits are small. 8 home games/year. Maybe some concerts? I think the economic benefit from 10K new residents greatly outweighs the benefit from 8 home games where most fans drive in for the game and then drive home after. And like I said, there are many studies that back it up.
I grew up in AH so I'm very familiar with the area. The town isn't growing because there literally isn't anywhere left to build there. If new housing were built, people would come.
KBLEE
- Montgomery, IL
Pritzker didn't sell the Thomson Center to Google. The State sold it to Michael Reschke and Quintin Primo for only $105M via a complicated transaction that involved trading a portion of it for a portion of the former BMO-Harris HQ. The prices was well below what if would have sold for pre-pandemic if the preservationist wouldn't have put up such a stink. Then those two agreed to a build-to-suit with Google. Pritzker took some credit for someone else's creativity.
I don't think the lakefront proposal was stopped by right-wing grievance. The Democratic Socialists block of the City Council (which is Johnson's base) were likely louder opponents. The schadenfreude people are experiencing from the Indiana announcement is from the right because of the seeming ineptitude of the State and City fully controlled by Democrats bumbling the whole process.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Lol we've got a lot of Illinois Policy Institute readers in here I see.
Forget apportioning credit or blame, a privately financed renovation of what had been a white elephant that will put Google in the Loop at that scale is a big win for the city. This place is more than its politicians.
The lakefront has never been meaningfully under consideration in this. Any lakefront-related proposal has only been a notional talking point for one side or the other, the fact that Soldier Field stands there as unloved city-owned property still owing nine figures of bond debt makes it impossible to start the conversation on the standard NFL terms.
The McCaskey's don't have deep enough pockets to think as big as it would take to make a great lakefront stadium a reality.
Again, move from WHERE? The Chicago area (particularly the parts in Illinois) has not seen any measurable population increase almost 20 years. So, as I mentioned, those would be people moving within Cook county, or at most from one of the other counties in Chicago area. Plus, what would those people be moving for? Are you aware of any businesses moving or expanding there? Existing businesses in that area (huge among them at one point was Motorola) are gone and not coming back. For residential development to make sense you need: 1) population growth, and 2) business growth. That area has NEITHER. Most people living there work in the city (unless they are working in school systems, health care, or services/entertainment).
The Bears seemingly moving to Indiana should not surprise anyone .
it’s exactly what you get from McCaskeys - Warren combined with a totally inept State & County & City Democrat controlled political organizations that have NEVER needed to negotiate ANYTHING .
its what you get from single party control of all levels of power in the State , County & City.
Pritzker will go about as far in the presidential primary process as Tom Steyer did in 2020 . If he didn’t have billions stashed away , he wouldn’t even be mentioned as a candidate for the Sanitary District. He’s just not impressive in any way that matters other than having a fat wallet inside his fat pants .
My political leanings aside , Pritzker is just a goof with money. McCaskeys are goofs with less money
it’s exactly what you get from McCaskeys - Warren combined with a totally inept State & County & City Democrat controlled political organizations that have NEVER needed to negotiate ANYTHING .
its what you get from single party control of all levels of power in the State , County & City.
Pritzker will go about as far in the presidential primary process as Tom Steyer did in 2020 . If he didn’t have billions stashed away , he wouldn’t even be mentioned as a candidate for the Sanitary District. He’s just not impressive in any way that matters other than having a fat wallet inside his fat pants .
My political leanings aside , Pritzker is just a goof with money. McCaskeys are goofs with less money
How many more years did you want the Bears to keep playing the game. It takes 2 and only one side was doing anything. This didn't just start a few months ago.
I guess it's possible that the Chicago Dem's would have torpedoed what the Bears wanted in AH no matter how competent the Bears were. But it is hard to argue that the Bears have been anything but incompetent during this entire process.
The problem is what they were doing was screwing up. Again and again.
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