Chicago Cubs 2025

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#526      
Through the system? Go around the field and see how many he drafted the ths Cubs developed.

1B - Busch - Dodgers
2B - Hoerner - Cubs (Epstein)
SS - Swanson - Atlanta
3B - ?????? - ?????
RF - Tucker - Astros
CF - PCA - Mets
RF - Happ - Cubs(Epstein)
C - Amaya - Cubs

P -
Imanaga - Free Agent - Japan
Steele - Cubs
Boyd- Cleveland
Taillon - Pittsburgh
Brown - Cubs (Hoyer hit)

This is not a roster built on draft and development. It's been trades and acquisition. The Cubs haven't been able to develop a pitching staff in YEARS.

We'll see if guys like Shaw, Horton, Alcantara, etc ever find their ways into being contributors.
Just to be persnickety, Ben Brown wasn't drafted by the Cubs, he was traded for a two-month rental on David Robertson, which is a heck of a deal if Brown settles in as the passable back-end starter he appears to be.
 
#527      
Horton will probably be a little while. He has yet to throw 80 pitches in a game and has only gone 5 innings once. We don't really have the bullpen to go into a game knowing we will need 4 or more innings out of them.
As far as developing players goes, developing their reputations can be as valuable as developing guys on the squad. Having highly regarded farm hands is how you make the moves the big boys make.
Just put together a good team and keep the farm healthy. Who cares how the sausage is made, if it tastes good?

The GM is always the least popular guy in an organization. Every guy with a wi-fi connection is smarter than they are.
 
#528      
I tend to agree with the logic that with his limited time last year, he probably only has about ~100 innings in him this year, they are clearly pretty unhittable innings, so why waste them in Iowa?
I get your point and in some circumstances I would agree. But overall I’m not a fan of rushing pitching prospects, especially one who lost a good part of an important developmental year because of a shoulder injury. Then when said pitcher is by far your best pitching prospect in a system that overall lacks pitching (I think only 5 or 6 pitchers in Cubs’ top 30 prospects and one of those is strictly a reliever), well I think caution is warranted.

If he can string together a couple or 3 more games like his last one, I think the timeline could be shortened. He had 10 walks in his first 3 starts (12.1 IP). Last start he had only 1 in 4.2 innings. He’s also become more of a fly ball pitcher since moving to AAA. In AA last year, he produced 19 ground balls versus 20 fly balls and 9 line drives. Those numbers changed to 11, 37 and 12 last year at AAA, and are at 10, 21 and 7 this year. And we all know what walks, fly balls and Wrigley Field can lead to.

I don’t think Cubs should nor will they rush him. Let him get his feet under him at AAA and refine those secondary pitches that will be the key to success with Cubs. He’ll be up soon enough. But rushing by far your best pitching prospect in order to squeeze an extra 20 innings out of him at the major league level this year doesn’t seem very prudent to me.
 
#530      
Chicago Cubs Nod GIF by MLB
 
#531      
I tend to agree with the logic that with his limited time last year, he probably only has about ~100 innings in him this year, they are clearly pretty unhittable innings, so why waste them in Iowa?
I understand the logic, but logic tends to go out the window when a guy has a great game going in September. So, you either put him in the bullpen, where he won't be building his arm or routine to be a starter, let him start in the majors, where you basically have a glorified bullpen game every 5 days, or you do what they've been doing and play the long game with his development.
With our history of pitcher development, whatever they decide will be the wrong answer...

Despite our lack of awe-inspiring star power in the rotation, our starters have been decent (top 1/3). It's the bullpen that has dragged us down.


Also, PCA is 3rd in MLB in WAR so far... I don't think there is a more fun player to watch in the game.
 
#532      
I understand the logic, but logic tends to go out the window when a guy has a great game going in September. So, you either put him in the bullpen, where he won't be building his arm or routine to be a starter, let him start in the majors, where you basically have a glorified bullpen game every 5 days, or you do what they've been doing and play the long game with his development.
With our history of pitcher development, whatever they decide will be the wrong answer...

Despite our lack of awe-inspiring star power in the rotation, our starters have been decent (top 1/3). It's the bullpen that has dragged us down.


Also, PCA is 3rd in MLB in WAR so far... I don't think there is a more fun player to watch in the game.
And PCA is battng 7th. Imagine if he was higher in the order with more protection.
 
#533      
And PCA is battng 7th. Imagine if he was higher in the order with more protection.
I actually trusted Counsell to put the best lineup out there rather than stick to traditional and veteran preference lineups like Ross did.

One of the biggest problems we have right now is we have no right handed power outside of Suzuki. Makes it tough since most of our best hitters are lefties. I think he's worried about being vulnerable against lefty relievers so you end up with a poorly constructed lineup.

Bregman would have solved this, sadly.
 
#534      
And PCA is battng 7th. Imagine if he was higher in the order with more protection.
Put him behind or before Tucker

Edit: Tucker is 5th in MLB WAR

Edit Edit: I heard Happ say late last season that PCA would be a 6 WAR guy
 
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#536      
Put him behind or before Tucker

Edit: Tucker is 5th in MLB WAR

Happ
Tucker
Suzuki
Busch
Swanson
PCA
Kelly
Hoerner
Berti

Probably our best lineup, PCA is certainly a better hitter than Swanson but not sure you want 3 lefties and a switch hitter in your top 5.
 
#537      
I actually like where PCA is batting for now. He’s 23 and in only his second “full” season in majors. Keeps some pressure off of him. He’s essentially the number 3 hitter for back half of the order. If Swanson can get his average up to his norm as a Cub, him and Hoerner will give PCA plenty of RBI opportunities. And at least for now, the catchers are actually giving him a little protection. Plus, it’s working. Scoring runs hasn’t been an issue.
 
#539      
Leave it to the guy dumping on Suzuki to put him in the 3 hole in his ideal lineup. :unsure:
Well sure, my issue has always been with Hoyer.

Suzuki is a 6 or 7 hole hitter on a great team. We are not a great team. That's Hoyer's fault, not Suzuki's.

And hilariously enough, this would be the logical ideal lineup if we had signed Bregman:

Happ
Tucker
Bregman
Busch
PCA
Suzuki
Swanson
Kelly
Hoerner
 
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#540      
And PCA is battng 7th. Imagine if he was higher in the order with more protection.

I’m ok with the young kid just coming into his own sticking in a comfortable spot in the batting order for a bit longer.

If he’s still in the 7th spot while OPSing close to .900 come June, I’ll start to have questions.

Edit - hadn’t seen eye of Illini’s post when I posted this.
 
#541      
Through the system? Go around the field and see how many he drafted the ths Cubs developed.

1B - Busch - Dodgers
2B - Hoerner - Cubs (Epstein)
SS - Swanson - Atlanta
3B - ?????? - ?????
RF - Tucker - Astros
CF - PCA - Mets
RF - Happ - Cubs(Epstein)
C - Amaya - Cubs

P -
Imanaga - Free Agent - Japan
Steele - Cubs
Boyd- Cleveland
Taillon - Pittsburgh
Brown - Cubs (Hoyer hit)

This is not a roster built on draft and development. It's been trades and acquisition. The Cubs haven't been able to develop a pitching staff in YEARS.

We'll see if guys like Shaw, Horton, Alcantara, etc ever find their ways into being contributors.
When I say built through the farm, I mean that we made trades or drafted players who have been in the minors as we have developed them. PCA, Busch, Happ, Hoerner, Steele, Brown, Amaya are young players we brought up from AA or AAA. Horton will be here soon. Shaw will be back up as well. Making trades to get rid of old players for minor leaguers is the way to not only rebuild the farm but to move up to the big club. Houston did it this way as well as Cleveland and they are playoff bound every year.
 
#542      
Well sure, my issue has always been with Hoyer.

Suzuki is a 6 or 7 hole hitter on a great team. We are not a great team. That's Hoyer's fault, not Suzuki's.

And hilariously enough, this would be the logical ideal lineup if we had signed Bregman:

Happ
Tucker
Bregman
Busch
PCA
Suzuki
Swanson
Kelly
Hoerner
The only team Suzuki is hitting 6th or 7th on maybe is the Dodgers. Suzuki's OPS+ the last two seasons is right behind Bryant and Rizzo's 2016 seasons. Do you really think Suzuki would hit 6th or 7th on that great team? And Suzuki has been a better hitter than Bregman each of the past two seasons.

Edit:

To expand further, he probably would have hit 4th.

Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Suzuki
Zobrist
Contreras
Heyward
Pitcher
Russell
 
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#543      
The only team Suzuki is hitting 6th or 7th on maybe is the Dodgers. Suzuki's OPS+ the last two seasons is right behind Bryant and Rizzo's 2016 seasons. Do you really think Suzuki would hit 6th or 7th on that great team? And Suzuki has been a better hitter than Bregman each of the past two seasons.

Edit:

To expand further, he probably would have hit 4th.

Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Suzuki
Zobrist
Contreras
Heyward
Pitcher
Russell
He would not be hitting 4th. Someone doesn't remember all the 1 run losses in May and June in 2023 with Seiya posting a .400 OPS for 2 months in the heart of the order. If that didn't single handedly keep that team out of the playoffs, he made sure to guarantee it by not being able to catch a pop up and blowing a game in September. There is some hope that maybe keeping him out of the field will keep him healthy enough to not miss significant time but as we are seeing with this wrist injury, even that seems unlikely to get a full season out of him.

Thankfully we never found out if you were right about him hitting 4th though. That would have been a rough double play in the top of the 10th of game 7.
 
#544      
There's the Seiya Suzuki special.

1st and 3rd, nobody out, yet another great job by Happ and Tucker setting the table for a HUGE first inning.

Suzuki swings at strike 1 about 2 feet outside, fouls off strike 2 about 1 foot outside, and then swings at another pitch in the left handed batter's box and pops out to center. No RBI. Didn't see a single strike against a pitcher with well below average movement and velocity.

A complete loser turd at bat.
 
#546      
This first inning is actually a great case study for why the Cubs have been losers the last few years. Suzuki and Swanson have imbecilic at bats when they come up to the plate when it matters most. At least Swanson is a gold glover though. Not scoring in that inning though, wow oh wow. Seiya's at bat might go down as the worst of the year.
 
#547      
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Now now now, I know what you're thinking... hard to expect Suzuki to have a major league caliber plate appearance when he's facing future Cy Young winner Paul Skenes... Lots of people have silly swings against that guy... Oh, you mean he was facing a guy who had a 7.10 ERA last year? It wasn't Skenes? Oh no....
 
#549      
I know Swanson's defense is his calling card but damn he has to hit better than this. .190 isn't going to cut it. for what he’s getting paid that's not acceptable, his defense isn't worth that much, it's like he's Jason Heyward 2.0
The last few years have been maddening. It's basically Busch, Nico, Happ as the holdovers of players capable of having a situational at bat once in a while.
 
#550      
There's the Seiya Suzuki special.

1st and 3rd, nobody out, yet another great job by Happ and Tucker setting the table for a HUGE first inning.

Suzuki swings at strike 1 about 2 feet outside, fouls off strike 2 about 1 foot outside, and then swings at another pitch in the left handed batter's box and pops out to center. No RBI. Didn't see a single strike against a pitcher with well below average movement and velocity.

A complete loser turd at bat.
How about the great Dansby Swanson bases loaded one out and he strikes out like only Dansby can do
 
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