Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#151      
I think if you can score a P5 job, you do it.... regardless of how dire the situation is. If he were were to get the team to an NCAA Tournament, he'd have his choice of jobs. Chris Collins pulled it off at Northwestern. He's built a legitimate program at the P5 level.

DePaul hired Mark Aguirre as an assistant to the DA. He doesn't do that unless there is some sort of commitment to the program. I think that can also be associated with the job at Rutgers, Nebraska and Penn State.

Would it be a huge task? Absolutely. Could he punch his ticket to just about anywhere if he brings them back to respectability? Absolutely.

Never turn your nose up when you have the opportunity to move up to the highest level of coaching.

That said, DePaul would have to assure this coach more support at the NIL level.
I don’t disagree. But if said, hypothetical coach at DePaul were to become the “it” coach of the moment after getting to the tourney he’d better strike while the iron is hot…rather than hanging around like Collins did and be up and down at NW.
(Having said that, if that’s his prerogative to retire at NW…hats off.)

Having some crummy seasons at DePaul or NW (without a major tran$formation) is pretty much inevitable.
If he moves on then, everybody thinks “Wow, Collins can win even there…” if he stays, the narrative is more: “Collins success was a fluke & he couldn’t sustain it.” Probably part of the reason these guys travel around like nomads.

Collins has done the latter. I didn’t see Duke or Kentucky or even Minnesota (for lack of better example) beating down his door after his 1st time making the tourney.

Like I said, I don’t disagree with you.
I just think it’s often more than that.
Timing, luck and right place-right time are important too.
 
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#152      
Most of these own very small interests with little or no voting power. Owning a piece of a professional sports franchise is so you can talk about it to your contemporaries. The Cubs did the same thing a few years ago.
That’s not true. I may not be in Illinois insider, but when it comes to Bulls and White Sox, I am very informed. I’ll leave it at that.
 
#153      
The other funny thing I find about this “NIL from donors will come in for the right coach” - Yes, I’m sure there’s some but DePaul is a partial commuter school with 15k undergrad in a city that local businesses aren’t particularly aligned with the university beyond giving the kids a discount (I live in Lincoln Park). They haven’t been good in forever so the average alum is not really connected with sports. And Look at their notable alumni, it’s not a massive list or full of super high end individuals compared to nearly any state school.
 
#154      
That’s not true. I may not be in Illinois insider, but when it comes to Bulls and White Sox, I am very informed. I’ll leave it at that.
What % of each does Jerry own. I tried to look this up once and pretty vague info out there. 30-40% of Bulls and 20% of Sox is about what I could find.
 
#155      

Tophe

Middle TN
Completely agree. The baseline scenario for Few being pushed out is basically what happened to Belichick in New England. Personally, I think it will even take more. The only possible variable would be if Tommy Lloyd basically communicated to Gonzaga something to the effect of “If you want me, it’s now or never”, and they MIGHT figure out some sort of transition plan to essentially have Few retire.
I don't think they'd ever fire Few either considering everything he has done, but I do have to wonder how much of Gonzaga's success is due to Few, and how much to Tommy Lloyd.
 
#156      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
The other funny thing I find about this “NIL from donors will come in for the right coach” - Yes, I’m sure there’s some but DePaul is a partial commuter school with 15k undergrad in a city that local businesses aren’t particularly aligned with the university beyond giving the kids a discount (I live in Lincoln Park). They haven’t been good in forever so the average alum is not really connected with sports. And Look at their notable alumni, it’s not a massive list or full of super high end individuals compared to nearly any state school.
They need to get over their obsession with being the big city cool kids on the recruiting trail and focus on a culture of maximizing what they have.

They've had way too many good players to relentlessly suck like they have.
 
#158      
It will be interesting to see how the football/financial conference gravity affects the basketball coaching market.

The Big 12 is especially interesting, dead forever as a football power, but just absurdly loaded on the hoops side for the foreseeable future.
On this note, I just have to wonder if/when the financial perk of being in the "Power Two" equalizes or overcomes an equally attractive (on paper) ACC, Big XII or Big East job. This is totally made up for a hypothetical, but imagine is considering leaving Arkansas (SEC) for Louisville (ACC) and he makes this super simplified pros and cons list (again, nobody get too hung up on accuracy of the ratings, lol!).

Tradition: Louisville A+, Arkansas B+
Facilities: Louisville A, Arkansas B+
Fan Base/Support: Louisville A, Arkansas A-
NIL Money: $10 at Louisville, $7 at Arkansas
Salary Offered: $100 at Louisville, $90 at Arkansas

On paper, Louisville is just simply the better job ... but how many years go by before Arkansas uses its SEC status to keep closing those gaps in every category but tradition and eventually overtakes UL's NIL advantage (I know Arkansas has Wal-Mart money, but bear with me)? I wonder how long conventionally "great jobs" outside of the Big Ten and SEC like Arizona, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. can really hang on to that ability to take coaches from places that seem worse on paper.

That was not very eloquent and kind of rambling, but I guess this is all to say ... I have the utmost respect for Louisville basketball's tradition and I am in the camp that prefers to call them a Blue Blood (at least if Indiana is included), but if I am a coach, I am thinking long and hard before leaving an Arkansas, Illinois, Maryland, etc. to go clean up that program and build from scratch in the ACC.
 
#159      
The other funny thing I find about this “NIL from donors will come in for the right coach” - Yes, I’m sure there’s some but DePaul is a partial commuter school with 15k undergrad in a city that local businesses aren’t particularly aligned with the university beyond giving the kids a discount (I live in Lincoln Park). They haven’t been good in forever so the average alum is not really connected with sports. And Look at their notable alumni, it’s not a massive list or full of super high end individuals compared to nearly any state school.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but notable alumni have absolutely zero to do with recruiting sports, unless of course you're meaning ex basketball players. Not one kid who is being recruited at any school is asking how many nobel prize laureates an institution has.

C'mon....I mean, for anyone who watched and loved the movie Stepbrothers, just direct them towards John C Reilly and you'll get a commitment. For those kids who's parents watched Happy Days, Tom Boswell can be referenced. For those who like political news stations, throw Gillian Anderson into the mix. Hey, for those who really love their basketball history, there's George Mikan can be referenced. The Daley's went too for those who love their Chicago mayoral/politics history. You can see where I'm going with this.

They are a city school where there is absolutely no reason can't get themselves on the same level as Marquette. The two programs have the same history. St John's is still on the bounce back, but they had a similar situation. They were able to get Pitino because he needed a step up in weight class after a rough road. Shaka Smart and Rick Pitino were lured.

Now, where I do agree with you is that they need the support of the school and community. Mark Aguirre is obviously embarrassed by where the program is and he wouldn't have come aboard if he didn't have some assurances.

In the day and age of NIL and portal transfers, recruiting high school players is more open than ever and getting kids that don't want to be sitting aren't willing to get PT? A guy like Dain(for example) would be the type of player that would be a perfect fit.

What sucks is that Chicago media completely disregards college basketball. They disregard us unless something bad happens. TSJ was the only story about us that came from that media. Anything south of I 80 is useless to them otherwise.

If the effort was there, they'd get it done. We'll know more about their effort with their new hire. I think that a big name cast-off (a guy like Pitino) would be where the fit is. Once Juwon gets let go, there's another fit.

Time will tell. Opportunities to coach in that type of conference are rare.
 
#160      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
I agree with most of what you're saying, but notable alumni have absolutely zero to do with recruiting sports, unless of course you're meaning ex basketball players. Not one kid who is being recruited at any school is asking how many nobel prize laureates an institution has.
I think the point is that there's not a T. Boone Pickens on the list. Or a Shad Khan, Jerry Colangelo, and so forth.


They are a city school where there is absolutely no reason can't get themselves on the same level as Marquette.
Marquette has a MUCH bigger fanbase.

In the day and age of NIL and portal transfers, recruiting high school players is more open than ever
Not if you don't have the NIL money to pay them, and the NIL money comes from fans, either rich sugar daddies or zombie armies on the internet, or ideally both.

DePaul is a minnow in that space and has no plausible path to being otherwise. They need to think differently.

They need to Moneyball the NIL world, essentially. That's kinda what Domask and Guerrier were in a way, albeit at a ritzier price point than DePaul can afford.
 
#161      
I think the point is that there's not a T. Boone Pickens on the list. Or a Shad Khan, Jerry Colangelo, and so forth.



Marquette has a MUCH bigger fanbase.


Not if you don't have the NIL money to pay them, and the NIL money comes from fans, either rich sugar daddies or zombie armies on the internet, or ideally both.

DePaul is a minnow in that space and has no plausible path to being otherwise. They need to think differently.

They need to Moneyball the NIL world, essentially. That's kinda what Domask and Guerrier were in a way, albeit at a ritzier price point than DePaul can afford.
I like everything that you said. My long winded and blow hard opinion ultimately comes down to what you're saying...getting support from somewhere, getting creative in some fashion and start somewhere.

With regards to coaching, it seems like guys who are trying to revive their careers have worked. Kelvin Sampson was the scum of the earth, as was Pitino, as was Alford, etc. Was it the coach at LSU that pretty much puked all over himself? Why not open the door back up for him?

Giving someone a second chance, to me, is where the answer lies
 
#162      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
I like everything that you said. My long winded and blow hard opinion ultimately comes down to what you're saying...getting support from somewhere, getting creative in some fashion and start somewhere.

With regards to coaching, it seems like guys who are trying to revive their careers have worked. Kelvin Sampson was the scum of the earth, as was Pitino, as was Alford, etc. Was it the coach at LSU that pretty much puked all over himself? Why not open the door back up for him?

Giving someone a second chance, to me, is where the answer lies
Being willing to go further into the gutter than others is definitely a form of Moneyball in college sports, no doubt.

Will Wade who you're referencing just signed an extension at McNeese State. He was way, way too good for DePaul and might have his eye on regaining that status, still very young, but worth a phone call.

The NIL/Portal world is very very different than the old scummy bagman way of doing things, and I just said that the DePaul needs to focus on maximizing talent rather than selling out to recruit it. Nonetheless, would someone in the Travis Ford/Rick Stansbury dirtbag contingent take that job? Just a thought.

But to me if I'm the DePaul AD I want an experienced head coach who has shown the ability to establish a winning culture and maximize the available resources. But I'm DePaul and the obvious candidates like that will be too scared to take the job, so I need to be willing to get creative.

What I do not want is the rainmaking assistant from the way bigger more successful program who seems most likely to win the Jahlil Okafor recruitment, because that world is gone, that's the stone age in college basketball terms and was never a reasonable strategy for DePaul anyway.
 
#163      
I agree with most of what you're saying, but notable alumni have absolutely zero to do with recruiting sports, unless of course you're meaning ex basketball players. Not one kid who is being recruited at any school is asking how many nobel prize laureates an institution has.

C'mon....I mean, for anyone who watched and loved the movie Stepbrothers, just direct them towards John C Reilly and you'll get a commitment. For those kids who's parents watched Happy Days, Tom Boswell can be referenced. For those who like political news stations, throw Gillian Anderson into the mix. Hey, for those who really love their basketball history, there's George Mikan can be referenced. The Daley's went too for those who love their Chicago mayoral/politics history. You can see where I'm going with this.

They are a city school where there is absolutely no reason can't get themselves on the same level as Marquette. The two programs have the same history. St John's is still on the bounce back, but they had a similar situation. They were able to get Pitino because he needed a step up in weight class after a rough road. Shaka Smart and Rick Pitino were lured.

Now, where I do agree with you is that they need the support of the school and community. Mark Aguirre is obviously embarrassed by where the program is and he wouldn't have come aboard if he didn't have some assurances.

In the day and age of NIL and portal transfers, recruiting high school players is more open than ever and getting kids that don't want to be sitting aren't willing to get PT? A guy like Dain(for example) would be the type of player that would be a perfect fit.

What sucks is that Chicago media completely disregards college basketball. They disregard us unless something bad happens. TSJ was the only story about us that came from that media. Anything south of I 80 is useless to them otherwise.

If the effort was there, they'd get it done. We'll know more about their effort with their new hire. I think that a big name cast-off (a guy like Pitino) would be where the fit is. Once Juwon gets let go, there's another fit.

Time will tell. Opportunities to coach in that type of conference are rare.
Notable alumni as a proxy for extremely wealthy alumni with big pockets. Most notable example being T Boone Pickens almost single handedly building infrastructure at ok state.

No I’m not saying any recruit cares about that but they will care if your school produced 20 hedge fund owners who are into sports donating.

Edit: Gritty saw what I meant!
 
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#164      
Hurley is really trying to get that DePaul job ...

Schertz, Bryce Drew and Porter Moser all making plays for it as well ... Moser really wants out of Oklahoma ... DePaul really cannot afford his buyout so he is working through some things on that end to try and make the jump ... But it just may not be enough ...

Fully expect Oklahoma to be looking for a new coach after the season though ...
 
#165      
Hurley is really trying to get that DePaul job ...

Schertz, Bryce Drew and Porter Moser all making plays for it as well ... Moser really wants out of Oklahoma ... DePaul really cannot afford his buyout so he is working through some things on that end to try and make the jump ... But it just may not be enough ...

Fully expect Oklahoma to be looking for a new coach after the season though ...
Why is Porter so unhappy at OU?
 
#167      
Hurley is really trying to get that DePaul job ...

Schertz, Bryce Drew and Porter Moser all making plays for it as well ... Moser really wants out of Oklahoma ... DePaul really cannot afford his buyout so he is working through some things on that end to try and make the jump ... But it just may not be enough ...

Fully expect Oklahoma to be looking for a new coach after the season though ...
What is the attraction to that job considering Depaul's NIL situation?
 
#171      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Hurley is really trying to get that DePaul job ...

Schertz, Bryce Drew and Porter Moser all making plays for it as well ... Moser really wants out of Oklahoma ... DePaul really cannot afford his buyout so he is working through some things on that end to try and make the jump ... But it just may not be enough ...

Fully expect Oklahoma to be looking for a new coach after the season though ...
That's a pretty rosy list considering their last two hires were an assistant at Oregon and an assistant at Tulsa.

Drew and Hurley are guys I'd be a little suspicious of as maybe a bit shaky in terms of program management, doing the best with the resources available, etc, but they aren't terrible hires.
 
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#172      
So for DePaul job I assume Hurley interviewed, Moser needs to work on what to do with a buyout, and Schertz/Drew will interview soon…?
 
#173      

GrayGhost77

Centennial, CO
Honestly Moser is probably the best fit there. Already showed he could do well with a City of Chicago school with limited resources and hasn't done badly at Oklahoma playing in the toughest bball conference. I'd be trying to move mountains to get him there if I were DePaul.
 
#174      
So for DePaul job I assume Hurley interviewed, Moser needs to work on what to do with a buyout, and Schertz/Drew will interview soon…?
Ncaa Basketball Thumbs Up GIF by NCAA March Madness
 
#175      
I don't understand why any of these guys would want to go to DePaul. It would be a monumental undertaking to turn that program around. I've always wondered why good coaches go to places like that or Vanderbilt that are just about impossible to win at consistently.
 
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