...worse facilities?
NIL I have no idea
They have a larger alumni base.
They are as close to Chicago & next door to Indy.
3 losing seasons in 19 yrs under Painter.
Favorite to win a title this year.
How is MSU a destination and Purdue isn't?
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
- Status
NIL I have no idea
They have a larger alumni base.
They are as close to Chicago & next door to Indy.
3 losing seasons in 19 yrs under Painter.
Favorite to win a title this year.
How is MSU a destination and Purdue isn't?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Not saying it’s a bad job. I’m saying Illinois is better.
If his dad wasn’t a coach he probably wouldn‘t have spent his entire life in a gym and watching film. Obviously, he gets opportunities others would not. How many people grow up with a guy in their house who teaches the game for a living, and is really good at doing it?
Career opportunities have never been fair in any sector. Who you know always matters. Ultimately, you have to prove your worth with the opportunity or move on.
Here’s a completely pointless list of reasons why coaches may/may not wanna go there…
But IMO some accurate reasons why they both kinda suck… but Iowa More.
Mascots: Hawkeyes is totally DUMB…why isnt it just a Hawks? What’s the Hawk-EYE about? LAME
Nebraska’s mascot is even DUMBER. A Cornhusker? Like, how intimidating is a dude shucking corn? I’m SO petrified! Also, their state is actually behind Iowa and Illinois in amount of corn husked. SO….LAME Iowa wins this round…200 points.
Colors: Iowa by a mile! Black and Yellow is way less generic than Red & White Iowa again…100 points.
Intelligence of The Fanbase:
Nebraska! Shocker I know. Nebraska: 450 points! Bigger Posers: Iowa…looking at you…”I insist you call me Doctor Tom Davis” Nebraska: 300 points
Bigger Miss/The One That Got Away: the big loser here is Iowa…Had Lute Olson found a happy home in Iowa for a little while longer, Point Guard U might have blossomed in the cornfields and not the desert.( I guess you could call Dana Altman a miss for Nebraska…the flagship school probably would have liked to lure Altman,( who hailed from Nebraska…away from Creighton) * Iowa must deduct 500 pts
* Nebraska never employed Bruce Pearl.
2 million points: Nebraska
I think we're a program that hasn't seen sweet 16 since 05 and they are top title contender for the 3rd time in 3 years & a top 5 seed 7 of the last 8.
They also have a top 10 class coming in next year.
I'd say its at best a draw if we claim IL has better NIL, but i dont think theres a definitive list out there...
Memphis job will be open ... That was the final straw for Penny tonight ...
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Following up on this, I didn't want to just state an opinion with no reasoning. These are some comparisons (starting with the ones you named and then other ones I think are important) which I believe show we are a superior job to Purdue ... and that is no disrespect to Purdue. It's perfectly normal for an Illini fan to proudly recognize this as an amazing job.
1. Facilities. Yes, I believe Purdue's are worse. Even if you want to call Mackey and SFC a wash (Mackey probably has more charm, but SFC is objectively much nicer/has better amenities now), from what I have seen we have MUCH nicer practice facilities.
2. NIL. I also have no idea for sure, but I have read on the Purdue Rivals board before that their fans are frustrated that they are allegedly toward the lower half of the Big Ten in NIL and very "behind." Conversely, our insiders have suggested we have reported we are top 10 nationally and top 2-3 in the Big Ten (only for sure behind Indiana).
3. Fan Base Size. (I assume this is what you were referencing when you said they have a larger alumni base.) From what I could find, Purdue has 575k living alumni if you include Purdue Global. Illinois has 850k if you count every campus, and over 500k for UIUC. So, I am not sure there is a clear reason to believe Purdue has more "graduates who are likely to be basketball fans," personally. Additionally, I am from Central Illinois and now live in Chicago, while my sister lived in Indianapolis for nine years. Take this as anecdotally as you want, but I think it's clear - Illinois has FAR more non-alumni fans than Purdue. Nobody in my family went to U of I, and we are huge fans nonetheless ... and that is VERY common in Downstate Illinois and more common in Chicagoland than people would think. Conversely, I think in Indiana most Purdue fans are alumni, whereas non-alum fans tend to be Hoosiers. I think it's very clear Illinois has a larger fan base, personally, but we can't prove this one.
4. Recruiting Footprint. Both of the things you said about Chicago and Indy apply to us... Additionally, Purdue's proximity to Chicago is about as relevant as our proximity to Indianapolis - it barely matters, as we are respectively still out-of-state teams that instate recruits don't even feel the slightest pressure to include in their top 10. However badly our fans act like we have recruited instate over the years, it has been at least as successful as Purdue recruiting Indiana - a state where they rarely if ever seem to beat out IU for a recruit that the Hoosiers want, even as Indiana has declined. For all the ones we have missed, there is a long line of highly ranked instate recruits from Nick Anderson to Dee Brown to Brandon Paul to Ayo to now Morez and Fears that have chosen to stay home. We would not have gotten ANY of them if we were not the state flagship school, I am quite sure of that. So, Purdue is second fiddle in Indiana, and we are (barely) first fiddle in Illinois (the Blue Bloods will recruit any state without discrimination, so that is a wash).
5. Lack of Losing Seasons. I am not sure this is a great metric, but even so ... you realize we only have ONE more losing season since Painter took over, right? That has to be a wash, lol...
6. Purdue Being the Favorite This Year. Sorry, but this is just a bizarre argument for meaning it's a better "job." Illinois was the favorite to win the Big Ten per the Athletic LAST YEAR. Did you think we were a better job last year but now we aren't?
Some that I would add:
7. Fan Support. Pretty difficult to not say this is equal, as both fan bases are incredibly passionate. Mackey might be louder? Well, SFC is bigger and has more fans. Illinois also seems to travel better than Purdue ... I have never seen Purdue do what we did to Vegas last year.
8. Recent Success. Purdue has not accomplished anything in recent history that we have not. Even during these last three years where everyone is acting like Purdue has been top dog in the league, we each have 1 Big Ten Championship and 1 BTT Championship. Both teams have been a #1 seed once. We have each made the Tournament every year. People want to act like we have disappointed in the Tournament lately?! Purdue has lost to a #13, #15 and #16 seed in the last three Tournaments!! In the last 25 years...
- Final Fours: Illinois 1, Purdue 0
- Elite Eights: Illinois 2, Purdue 2
- Sweet Sixteens: Purdue 9, Illinois 4
- NCAAT Appearances: Purdue 18
- Big Ten Championships: Illinois 5, Purdue 4
- BTT Championships: Illinois 3, Purdue 2
9. All-Time Success. This one is arguably a wash ... neither team has ever cut down the nets. All-time winning percentage is tied. A lot of categories are very even. Purdue has more Big Ten titles by a decent margin (23 vs. 18), but Illinois has over TWICE as many Final Fours.
Let me tell you that there are zero Purdue fans arguing that Illinois is a better job than Purdue (even if it is!), so I don't think we need to prop them up ourselves.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
GOD, this first sentence comes across as weirdly self-hating as an Illini fan, dude. They're a "top title contender for the 3rd time in 3 years"? So, were we a "top title contender" in 2020-21? Do we get credit for that? Or does our Second Round loss to a #8 seed strike you as more damning to our pedigree than Purdue losing in the First Round to a #1 seed? In the past 3 years, our resumes as programs look literally almost exactly the same, except we actually have more wins.
LolGuys they were my personal tiers, as I said.If you are looking at my list and thinking Maryland is a “better” job than Rutgers so what am I thinking, you’re looking at it wrong. I’m not convinced Coach K has a higher ceiling at Purdue than Rutgers. Just because no one has figured it out at RU yet doesn’t mean the pieces aren’t there. JMO.
Hang in there Fighter.This reminds of the time I said: Andres Feliz was one of my sentimental Illini faves of all time. & Lon Kruger was my personal TOP 3 favorite Illini coach just ahead of Henson…and you would have thought that I desecrated the Illini Union and punched out the lead singer of REO Speedwagon on the Sabbath.
Instead, I got page after page how I was completely nuts because: Eddie Johnson, Derek Harper, Bruce Douglas, Doug Altenbetger, Kendall Gill, Nick Anderson, Dee Brown, James Augustine, Luther Head, Deron Williams, Kenny Battle….blah..blah blah bla…and Lou Henson parted the Illinois River and turned it into Orange Kool-Aid…blah…blah, flipp-itty blah..lol.
Anyways, apparently you can’t do that here. Lol…
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OrangeBlue98
- Des Moines, IA
Here’s a completely pointless list of reasons why coaches may/may not wanna go there…
But IMO some accurate reasons why they both kinda suck… but Iowa More.
Mascots: Hawkeyes is totally DUMB…why isnt it just a Hawks? What’s the Hawk-EYE about? LAME
Nebraska’s mascot is even DUMBER. A Cornhusker? Like, how intimidating is a dude shucking corn? I’m SO petrified! Also, their state is actually behind Iowa and Illinois in amount of corn husked. SO….LAME Iowa wins this round…200 points.
Colors: Iowa by a mile! Black and Yellow is way less generic than Red & White Iowa again…100 points.
Intelligence of The Fanbase:
View attachment 31152
Bigger Posers: Iowa…looking at you…”I insist you call me Doctor Tom Davis” Nebraska: 300 points
Bigger Miss/The One That Got Away: the big loser here is Iowa…Had Lute Olson found a happy home in Iowa for a little while longer, Point Guard U might have blossomed in the cornfields and not the desert.( I guess you could call Dana Altman a miss for Nebraska…the flagship school probably would have liked to lure Altman,( who hailed from Nebraska…away from Creighton) * Iowa must deduct 500 pts
* Nebraska never employed Bruce Pearl.
2 million points: Nebraska
Closest thing I could get to “points don’t matter”
Wait, so are we ranking jobs or just asking if we look fat in this dress?
They were ranked number 1 at some point each of the last 3 years and made a sweet 16.
Going 1-1-3-4-Covid-3-2-4-5 is better than 4-9-4-1-Covid-N-N-N-N, pretending otherwise is silly.
Woah, I didn't realize you wrote all this. I had them one rank better on the same tier ffs. Also, Purdue fans are jerks, I don't care what they think.Following up on this, I didn't want to just state an opinion with no reasoning. These are some comparisons (starting with the ones you named and then other ones I think are important) which I believe show we are a superior job to Purdue ... and that is no disrespect to Purdue. It's perfectly normal for an Illini fan to proudly recognize this as an amazing job.
1. Facilities. Yes, I believe Purdue's are worse. Even if you want to call Mackey and SFC a wash (Mackey probably has more charm, but SFC is objectively much nicer/has better amenities now), from what I have seen we have MUCH nicer practice facilities.
2. NIL. I also have no idea for sure, but I have read on the Purdue Rivals board before that their fans are frustrated that they are allegedly toward the lower half of the Big Ten in NIL and very "behind." Conversely, our insiders have suggested we have reported we are top 10 nationally and top 2-3 in the Big Ten (only for sure behind Indiana).
3. Fan Base Size. (I assume this is what you were referencing when you said they have a larger alumni base.) From what I could find, Purdue has 575k living alumni if you include Purdue Global. Illinois has 850k if you count every campus, and over 500k for UIUC. So, I am not sure there is a clear reason to believe Purdue has more "graduates who are likely to be basketball fans," personally. Additionally, I am from Central Illinois and now live in Chicago, while my sister lived in Indianapolis for nine years. Take this as anecdotally as you want, but I think it's clear - Illinois has FAR more non-alumni fans than Purdue. Nobody in my family went to U of I, and we are huge fans nonetheless ... and that is VERY common in Downstate Illinois and more common in Chicagoland than people would think. Conversely, I think in Indiana most Purdue fans are alumni, whereas non-alum fans tend to be Hoosiers. I think it's very clear Illinois has a larger fan base, personally, but we can't prove this one.
4. Recruiting Footprint. Both of the things you said about Chicago and Indy apply to us... Additionally, Purdue's proximity to Chicago is about as relevant as our proximity to Indianapolis - it barely matters, as we are respectively still out-of-state teams that instate recruits don't even feel the slightest pressure to include in their top 10. However badly our fans act like we have recruited instate over the years, it has been at least as successful as Purdue recruiting Indiana - a state where they rarely if ever seem to beat out IU for a recruit that the Hoosiers want, even as Indiana has declined. For all the ones we have missed, there is a long line of highly ranked instate recruits from Nick Anderson to Dee Brown to Brandon Paul to Ayo to now Morez and Fears that have chosen to stay home. We would not have gotten ANY of them if we were not the state flagship school, I am quite sure of that. So, Purdue is second fiddle in Indiana, and we are (barely) first fiddle in Illinois (the Blue Bloods will recruit any state without discrimination, so that is a wash).
5. Lack of Losing Seasons. I am not sure this is a great metric, but even so ... you realize we only have ONE more losing season since Painter took over, right? That has to be a wash, lol...
6. Purdue Being the Favorite This Year. Sorry, but this is just a bizarre argument for meaning it's a better "job." Illinois was the favorite to win the Big Ten per the Athletic LAST YEAR. Did you think we were a better job last year but now we aren't?
Some that I would add:
7. Fan Support. Pretty difficult to not say this is equal, as both fan bases are incredibly passionate. Mackey might be louder? Well, SFC is bigger and has more fans. Illinois also seems to travel better than Purdue ... I have never seen Purdue do what we did to Vegas last year.
8. Recent Success. Purdue has not accomplished anything in recent history that we have not. Even during these last three years where everyone is acting like Purdue has been top dog in the league, we each have 1 Big Ten Championship and 1 BTT Championship. Both teams have been a #1 seed once. We have each made the Tournament every year. People want to act like we have disappointed in the Tournament lately?! Purdue has lost to a #13, #15 and #16 seed in the last three Tournaments!! In the last 25 years...
- Final Fours: Illinois 1, Purdue 0
- Elite Eights: Illinois 2, Purdue 2
- Sweet Sixteens: Purdue 9, Illinois 4
- NCAAT Appearances: Purdue 18
- Big Ten Championships: Illinois 5, Purdue 4
- BTT Championships: Illinois 3, Purdue 2
9. All-Time Success. This one is arguably a wash ... neither team has ever cut down the nets. All-time winning percentage is tied. A lot of categories are very even. Purdue has more Big Ten titles by a decent margin (23 vs. 18), but Illinois has over TWICE as many Final Fours.
Let me tell you that there are zero Purdue fans arguing that Illinois is a better job than Purdue (even if it is!), so I don't think we need to prop them up ourselves.
I looked at Illinois's website for the alumni, great that the Illinois system has more but no one from UIC is rooting for UIUC.
They've had 435 wins vs Illinois's 376 overall & 220 vs 173 Illinois's conference wins since Painter has been there.
You really don't think that recent success and the real chance for a ship this year is a key indicator in appealing to another coaching candidate?
And FAU made a final four last year. Purdue has never been. So.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
All you are claiming is that Purdue had better results with Painter during the John Groce Era. Which is obvious. If you want to chalk that up to Illinois having a lower ceiling than Purdue, that’s your strange prerogative … I’ll go with the explanation lying solely with John Groce being a much inferior coach to Painter. Our programs’ accomplishments in the last 4+ years are remarkably similar on paper, and it’d take a peculiar desire to promote Purdue as better to say otherwise … something I frankly cannot understand why an Illini fan would want to do.
And neither statistic has anything more than a minor impact on which is a better job. Baylor’s had a much better 5-year span than Kentucky … it’s not even close to a better job.
Purdue has been to two Final Fours. (Purdue and Iowa both made the Final Four in 1980, imagine that!)
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Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
So you think we were a clearly better job in 2021 when we were a #1 seed and much better than Purdue because we had a “real chance for a ship” that year? And again, we have a better record than Purdue over the last 5 years … so to answer your question, no I do not think John Groce’s record at Illinois which makes up that difference is relevant at all here.
IlliniwekKDR
- Colorado Springs, CO
Okay, I will make this very simple for everyone involved in this discussion. Suppose both Painter and Underwood announced their retirement at the end of this season, same day, within 1 hour of each other. Which school, Illinois or Purdue, will have the better pool of coaches to choose from??? And which is likely to make the better hire??? That my friends, is the only thing that matters!
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The pools would be very similar but I know who Illinois would contact first and it probably wouldn’t get past that.(in a world where they are the only two jobs open)
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I clearly think Illinois is a better job (i.e., maybe if Sean Miller has offers from both, he chooses Illinois because of one or more factors), but not by some massive gap and Purdue is a good job, too. So I’d agree there would be a similar pool. I’m a pretty big believer in fewer tiers … the Bluest Bloods (UK, UNC, KU), the great jobs (MSU to UConn to us to Arkansas), the rest (Iowa to Mizzou) and the bad ones (Northwestern).
And none of this even touches on personal stuff! Maryland might be a “better” job than Colorado, but maybe you love Boulder and have family there.
Illinois contacts Painter.
I agree with you Fighter, I do my absolute best to remove my Illini fandom from my decision, as hard as it is. But I think the same as you, the Illinois job is the better choice. No, not by a country mile, but using simple logic. I'll just throw this out there...... food for thought, compare the trajectories of coaches who worked at both schools, AFTER they left..... I know the Keady/Painter timeline kind of warps things..... but have either of those 2 gotten offers to move that would be upgrades???? Better NCAA school or NBA????
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Lmao. This brings up another factor, too … personality. I think given the instate high school coaches and Chicago media, a “powerful” personality might do you more good at Illinois than Purdue.
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