Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#101      

SkyysNotFalling

S
SkyysNotFalling
1. Any of the guys Indy has listed would be great replacements for Chester… I think OA, Cohen or Clark would all be an upgrade (which pains me to say bc I love Chet & liked the type of players he brought into the program.)

2. I’ll take a stab at B1G coach tiers…

1. Painter
2. Izzo
3. Brad
4. Altman
5. Muss
6. Cronin
7. Pikiell
8. Fran
9. Gard
10. Collins
11. Hoiberg
12. May
13. Woodson
14. Rhodes
15. Johnson
16. Sprinkle
17. Diebler
18. Willard
 
#103      

turnaround3

turnaround3
1st & Daniel
turnaround3
Tiering is tough particularly near the top of the B1G because unless you explicitly state otherwise it's never entirely clear if we're tiering for the job they've done at the program in their time there or the job they're doing there right now.

Because if it's the former there's essentially no argument for Painter over Izzo. And if it's the latter there's essentially no argument for the inverse.
 
#107      

WhiteHorseWings

WhiteHorseWings
WhiteHorseWings
Mobi said:
Tom freaking Izzo? Is he still getting the credit from 2001?
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This is such a silly narrative. I remember an almost 20 year span that he could tell recruits that no player who played for him for 4 years did not play in a Final 4.

He’s simply among the best ever. Whether or not he made a benign comment when Bruce got canned that so weirdly bothers many.
 
#108      

hooraybeer

hooraybeer
Pittsburgh, PA
hooraybeer
SkyysNotFalling said:
1. Any of the guys Indy has listed would be great replacements for Chester… I think OA, Cohen or Clark would all be an upgrade (which pains me to say bc I love Chet & liked the type of players he brought into the program.)

2. I’ll take a stab at B1G coach tiers…

1. Painter
2. Izzo
3. Brad
4. Altman
5. Muss
6. Cronin
7. Pikiell
8. Fran
9. Gard
10. Collins
11. Hoiberg
12. May
13. Woodson
14. Rhodes
15. Johnson
16. Sprinkle
17. Diebler
18. Willard
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Hoiberg at 8, move everyone else down one and I agree
 
#110      

The Galloping Ghost

The Galloping Ghost
Washington, DC
The Galloping Ghost
WhiteHorseWings said:
This is such a silly narrative. I remember an almost 20 year span that he could tell recruits that no player who played for him for 4 years did not play in a Final 4.

He’s simply among the best ever. Whether or not he made a benign comment when Bruce got canned that so weirdly bothers many.
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One of the best ever who I would argue is past his sell-by date. Both can be true.
 
#111      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
WhiteHorseWings said:
This is such a silly narrative. I remember an almost 20 year span that he could tell recruits that no player who played for him for 4 years did not play in a Final 4.

He’s simply among the best ever. Whether or not he made a benign comment when Bruce got canned that so weirdly bothers many.
Click to expand...
Two absolute truths about Tom Izzo:

1. Truly one of the greatest to ever do it. Just over and over and over again created teams that out-executed you when it mattered.

2. A sanctimonious little gnome and always has been, who goes insane anytime anyone doesn't treat him like the King of College Basketball.

If he can't change significantly in PortalWorld though (and in both word and deed it seems clear he won't change), he's finished.
 
#112      

The Galloping Ghost

The Galloping Ghost
Washington, DC
The Galloping Ghost
ChiefGritty said:
Two absolute truths about Tom Izzo:

1. Truly one of the greatest to ever do it. Just over and over and over again created teams that out-executed you when it mattered.

2. A sanctimonious little gnome and always has been, who goes insane anytime anyone doesn't treat him like the King of College Basketball.

If he can't change significantly in PortalWorld though (and in both word and deed it seems clear he won't change), he's finished.
Click to expand...
A3hEMa.gif
 
#114      

Mobi

M
Mobi
Poe's Law said:
I mean he won 3 straight big ten conference titles in 2018-2020 and hasn’t missed the tournament since 1997. Yes he’s lost his fastball, but he’s still upper echelon in the Big Ten, just not elite.
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The title says in 2024. Yes. Jordan is still the greatest basketball player in 2024 but I wouldn’t put the current Jordan on my team in 2024. It depends on how you interpret it.
 
#115      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
SkyysNotFalling said:
1. Any of the guys Indy has listed would be great replacements for Chester… I think OA, Cohen or Clark would all be an upgrade (which pains me to say bc I love Chet & liked the type of players he brought into the program.)

2. I’ll take a stab at B1G coach tiers…

1. Painter
2. Izzo
3. Brad
4. Altman
5. Muss
6. Cronin
7. Pikiell
8. Fran
9. Gard
10. Collins
11. Hoiberg
12. May
13. Woodson
14. Rhodes
15. Johnson
16. Sprinkle
17. Diebler
18. Willard
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1.) Yeah, I completely agree. Good call.
2.) I don’t think your list in this fun but subjectively silly exercise is any better or any worse than anybody else’s per se…but IMO you probably have Woodson too high. 1-12 are pretty close…truth be told.
 
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#116      

DReq

DReq
Always Illini
Central Illinois
DReq
It seems to me that a "retention payment or bonus" would require that you actually work until the date selected. That would involve not going to your new employer and bringing your recruits to them. Otherwise, he is just taking a well-paid vacation while working against the interests of his employer. I would prefer to think that Chester is just trying to get language that he feels will not lead to whatever problems he perceived here. Oddly specific languagef (especially for an AC) is not something that most university legal representatives will be comfortable with.
 
#117      

Second place is 1st loser

S
Second place is 1st loser
Mobi said:
The title says in 2024. Yes. Jordan is still the greatest basketball player in 2024 but I wouldn’t put the current Jordan on my team in 2024. It depends on how you interpret it.
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I agree here. He's still a very good coach, who will have a tough team that on any night can beat just about anybody. That said, he's not enjoying how things are trending with the portal and NIL. He's clearly not choosing to adapt, yet he complains about the disadvantage of his teams playing against "old guys". That's not going to go away.

Part of being an elite coach is your willingness to adapt and change on the fly. That's been where Brad has excelled the last two years and it's where Izzo has regressed.

Tom isn't in the top 5 because the way the game is played has passed him by. I'm interested to see if Painter adapts with Edey gone because I don't care what anyone says, without him....that's an 8 seed, at best.
 
#121      

OrangeBlue98

OrangeBlue98
Des Moines, IA
OrangeBlue98
DReq said:
It seems to me that a "retention payment or bonus" would require that you actually work until the date selected. That would involve not going to your new employer and bringing your recruits to them. Otherwise, he is just taking a well-paid vacation while working against the interests of his employer. I would prefer to think that Chester is just trying to get language that he feels will not lead to whatever problems he perceived here. Oddly specific languagef (especially for an AC) is not something that most university legal representatives will be comfortable with.
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Even most places that are "at will" and have some sort of bonus paid out explicitly state in the bonus letters that you must be employed on some sort of effective date to receive the bonus. I have a very, very hard time believing that a more formal contract like this would not have the effective date for payouts clearly stated. But I'm also not a lawyer and haven't read the specific contract in question.
 
#122      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
ChiefGritty said:
Two absolute truths about Tom Izzo:

1. Truly one of the greatest to ever do it. Just over and over and over again created teams that out-executed you when it mattered.

2. A sanctimonious little gnome and always has been, who goes insane anytime anyone doesn't treat him like the King of College Basketball.

If he can't change significantly in PortalWorld though (and in both word and deed it seems clear he won't change), he's finished.
Click to expand...
Yes, for sure…but he’s not as F-ed as Calimari is about having his head up his own butt IMO.

Don’t get me wrong…I look for Calipari to go to Arkansas and have some moderate level of success initially. He’ll be extra motivated of course..he might even get a sweet sixteen…but I’m thinking it’ll likely be straight down hill after that unless he truly embraces change. AND I just don’t think he gets it.

1.) Tom Izzo is flat out a better coach than John Calipari.

*sidenote: according to (GREG)Sleepers Media, John Calipari is a top 5 coach of all-time…lol. (I’m starting to think that dude has been alive like 5 minutes. I wouldn’t say anything if he didn’t double down and wasn’t so militant about this take. Then he didn’t even know how many nattys he’d actually won. I mean that’s fine. He made a mistake. But again…definitely talking out of his duff. I do like Sleepers…but that was goofy.
Cal is barely top 35…and that’s being generous. There are 3-4 guys in his conference right now that are better than him.)

2.) John Calipari is no innovator. Most upper echelon coaches have changed the game/made some sort of lasting original contribution. (See Bob Knight…See Dean Smith…See John Beilein)
What is Cal known for? Wooden had the UCLA High Post Offense…Self has his Hi-Low…Dean’s Carolina Break…Bob Knight’s Motion Offense

Cal is known for what?
The Dribble Drive Offense (not Cals) & One-n- Dones. Tom Izzo actually kinda is innovative…especially with his combative style of play.

3.) Believe it or not, Tom has actually been more pragmatic and willing to adapt thusfar IMO…That’s saying something too…because Tom hasn’t adapted much.
 
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#123      

21ChampaignSt

21ChampaignSt
21ChampaignSt
Anyone going to Gordyville tonight?

I'll be the guy in orange and blue. If you see me, come say hey and I'll buy ya a beer.
 
#124      

bluemountain

B
bluemountain
WyattEarp said:
Yes, for sure…but he’s not as F-ed as Calimari is about having his head up his own butt IMO.

Don’t get me wrong…I look for Calipari to go to Arkansas and have some moderate level of success initially. He’ll be extra motivated of course..he might even get a sweet sixteen…but I’m thinking it’ll likely be straight down hill after that unless he truly embraces change. AND I just don’t think he gets it.

1.) Tom Izzo is flat out a better coach than John Calipari.

*sidenote: according to (GREG)Sleepers Media, John Calipari is a top 5 coach of all-time…lol. (I’m starting to think that dude has been alive like 5 minutes. I wouldn’t say anything if he didn’t double down and wasn’t so militant about this take. Then he didn’t even know how many nattys he’d actually won. I mean that’s fine. He made a mistake. But again…definitely talking out of his duff. I do like Sleepers…but that was goofy.
Cal is barely top 35…and that’s being generous. There are 3-4 guys in his conference right now that are better than him.)

2.) John Calipari is no innovator. Most upper echelon coaches have changed the game/made some sort of lasting original contribution. (See Bob Knight…See Dean Smith…See John Beilein)
What is Cal known for? Wooden had the UCLA High Post Offense…Self has his Hi-Low…Dean’s Carolina Break…Bob Knight’s Motion Offense

Cal is known for what?
The Dribble Drive Offense (not Cals) & One-n- Dones. Tom Izzo actually kinda is innovative…especially with his combative style of play.

3.) Believe it or not, Tom has actually been more pragmatic and willing to adapt thusfar IMO…That’s saying something too…because Tom hasn’t adapted much.
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Calipari has gotten lazy. He used to actually be a decent coach, but he got to the point at which he rolled out the ball and thought that's all he needed to do. I will be shocked if he has any level of success at Arkansas - it's the equivalent of when Kansas hired Les Miles
 
#125      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
bluemountain said:
Calipari has gotten lazy. He used to actually be a decent coach, but he got to the point at which he rolled out the ball and thought that's all he needed to do. I will be shocked if he has any level of success at Arkansas - it's the equivalent of when Kansas hired Les Miles
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I think he’s always been overrated and has always needed marquee talent more than most. He’s more style than substance. JMO
 
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