Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#76      
Thaillini22
If we're gonna call these shenanigans "capitalism" and give a pass to players who are just looking to get their bag, then it would be hypocritical to condem "whiny" coaches for bailing midseason. They're just being cut throat in the other direction, which the market also allows.

What is pretty clear to me is that neither side's behaviour is defensible. They're playing capitalism in a hall of funhouse mirrors.

But I still hope we make the F4.
 
#77      
SescIllini
Head Coaches justify their pay by the amount they return back to the school (ROI). NIL money competes with both HC and University funds. There will be more revenue sharing in the future and alumni now can contribute directly to the athlete instead of the university.

There will be a lot of adminstrative positions at University and NCAA that will be reduced; less places to stash a "no talented" relative or friend.
 
#78      
Vinegarben
I hate this PAY TO PLAY CRAP! This is just like baseball. Whoever has got the bucks wins! What happened to recruit and develop players over 4 years? [MONEY] Coaches have gotten lazy and take the easy way-just buy the players, no teaching the game. Everything is ALL ABOUT MONEY!
 
#79      
IlliniShelt
Vinegarben said:
I hate this PAY TO PLAY CRAP! This is just like baseball. Whoever has got the bucks wins! What happened to recruit and develop players over 4 years? [MONEY] Coaches have gotten lazy and take the easy way-just buy the players, no teaching the game. Everything is ALL ABOUT MONEY!
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You must have been miserable watching all of the transfers we had last year who led us to the Elite 8. I prefer to enjoy my team my alma mater's success. We also had guys like Dainja, Hawkins and Goode who all developed (some more than others) over their 3 here. Ok, fine I'll get off your lawn now.
 
#80      
sacraig
Thaillini22 said:
If we're gonna call these shenanigans "capitalism" and give a pass to players who are just looking to get their bag, then it would be hypocritical to condem "whiny" coaches for bailing midseason. They're just being cut throat in the other direction, which the market also allows.

What is pretty clear to me is that neither side's behaviour is defensible. They're playing capitalism in a hall of funhouse mirrors.

But I still hope we make the F4.
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I think you've got it backward. Most of us are calling our coaches for whining about players doing things that the coaches are already free to do.

The only real difference is that NIL contracts doesn't (yet) seem to have meaningful buyout clauses.
 
#81      
sacraig
Vinegarben said:
I hate this PAY TO PLAY CRAP! This is just like baseball. Whoever has got the bucks wins! What happened to recruit and develop players over 4 years? [MONEY] Coaches have gotten lazy and take the easy way-just buy the players, no teaching the game. Everything is ALL ABOUT MONEY!
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Bruce Willis Party GIF by IFC
 
#82      
the juiceman cometh
Vinegarben said:
I hate this PAY TO PLAY CRAP! This is just like baseball. Whoever has got the bucks wins! What happened to recruit and develop players over 4 years? [MONEY] Coaches have gotten lazy and take the easy way-just buy the players, no teaching the game. Everything is ALL ABOUT MONEY!
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Everything's been all about money ever since these games started being broadcast all over the nation. If you want money gone from the sport you're going to have to stop watching the games and convince everyone else to as well. Then we can go back to when the sport was pure...and when fans just read about what happened in the paper the next day.
 
#83      
Elite 8 - 2024
the juiceman cometh said:
Everything's been all about money ever since these games started being broadcast all over the nation. If you want money gone from the sport you're going to have to stop watching the games and convince everyone else to as well. Then we can go back to when the sport was pure...and when fans just read about what happened in the paper the next day.
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Duke, NC, Kans,as, Kentucky, all the Blue Bloods have been buying players for ever. Now, it is out in the open. Why do you think teams like UConn can win Championships. They are now buying the best players. Jerry Tarkanian would say, if you have 12 teams in a Conference and 11 are cheating, the one that is not cheating will be in LAST PLACE.
 
#84      
From the cheap seats
mhuml32 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1872671869620629887
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Yep. Miami's Final Four run fueled by Nigel Pack, lured from K State for $800,000 and a car according to reports. At that time, Pack was labeled "the face of NIL" in some reports. So, spare me Larranaga's whining about NIL. While any bonus for going to the FF is not reportable because Miami is a private school, news reports indicated he immediately received a contract extension from Miami.
 
#85      
CoalCity
Everything in world history has ALWAYS been about money. Trappers trading animal skins for food. The United States was formed by people wanting to escape taxation without representation among other things. Ever since somebody in pre biblical times decreed that gold and diamonds were valuable people went to the ends of the earth and did terrible things to obtain more of them. It's ALWAYS about the money.

You think John Wooden and Coach K were pure as the driven snow? How about Texas Autos & Money University? This is nothing new, it's just not done in McDonalds bags full of Benjamin's any more
 
#86      
RabidDawgClassic
Vinegarben said:
I hate this PAY TO PLAY CRAP! This is just like baseball. Whoever has got the bucks wins! What happened to recruit and develop players over 4 years? [MONEY] Coaches have gotten lazy and take the easy way-just buy the players, no teaching the game. Everything is ALL ABOUT MONEY!
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Spoiler alert: everything, everywhere has always been about money.
 
#87      
sbillini
the juiceman cometh said:
Everything's been all about money ever since these games started being broadcast all over the nation. If you want money gone from the sport you're going to have to stop watching the games and convince everyone else to as well. Then we can go back to when the sport was pure...and when fans just read about what happened in the paper the next day.
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Another option, and I’m pretty sure I’m on an island thinking this, is forcing dia to feed money back to the university. If the dia will be paying basketball/football players directly and cutting back on other programs to fund it, their non profit mission is even more of a farce than it already was. And I certainly don’t watch Luke altmayer of Bret bielema because they’re swell people, I watch them because of the school they’re representing. That school should capture more of that value vs the athletic dept.

Also, should eliminate all barriers to kids going pro out of high school. The ones that want the bag and can get the bag, just go pro and get it. If you can’t, then come to college or go overseas
 
#88      
ktal
Not true, but your point is taken. People who are money motivated are MUCH more likely to be miserable. Once a person earns six figures, adding more income makes little to no difference to their happiness or well-being. Money is known as a mis-want because people who use that to measure success will feel like a failure unless they earn roughly 400% more than their peers. Most don't come anywhere close to that, so are miserable.

Life is about relationships and experiences, not money. Pro-tip kids: find your motivation from the impact you have on others, not by the money you make.
 
#89      
the juiceman cometh
ktal said:
Not true, but your point is taken. People who are money motivated are MUCH more likely to be miserable. Once a person earns six figures, adding more income makes little to no difference to their happiness or well-being. Money is known as a mis-want because people who use that to measure success will feel like a failure unless they earn roughly 400% more than their peers. Most don't come anywhere close to that, so are miserable.

Life is about relationships and experiences, not money. Pro-tip kids: find your motivation from the impact you have on others, not by the money you make.
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I find it interesting and telling that you qualified this statement with the phrase "once a person earns six figures." The median income for an individual is about $42k, so yes once you attain a certain level of comfort additional money doesn't move the needle as much. Even by your calculus that level is beyond where a large majority of Americans live.

But again, for athletes the calculus is different. They aren't earning until 65. They're lucky if they are still earning at 35. Gotta get what you can, while you can get it.
 
#90      
SeattleSlim
sbillini said:
Another option, and I’m pretty sure I’m on an island thinking this, is forcing dia to feed money back to the university. If the dia will be paying basketball/football players directly and cutting back on other programs to fund it, their non profit mission is even more of a farce than it already was. And I certainly don’t watch Luke altmayer of Bret bielema because they’re swell people, I watch them because of the school they’re representing. That school should capture more of that value vs the athletic dept.

Also, should eliminate all barriers to kids going pro out of high school. The ones that want the bag and can get the bag, just go pro and get it. If you can’t, then come to college or go overseas
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Yep. The school could easily charge them a portion of their NIL for the privilege of wearing the brand (without which their value would be greatly diminished).
 
#91      
WizardBill
OrangeBlue98 said:
I don't disagree with any of this. But players freely transferring does seem to make a mockery of the academic side of this. I realize this is not new territory, as we all know Kentucky's usual crop of one and done freshmen never went to class after they met their eligibility needs. How are the credits these players are allegedly earning transferring when players are going to 3-4 different schools in their collegiate careers? I say that because as long as there are still names of universities on these uniforms, there has to be at least a reasonable effort to deal with the academic side of things.

I'm not trying to troll or start a flame war. I fully did NOT like the glorified indentured servitude of the days of yore in college sports. But I think the pendulum is too far the other way and really does not provide any legitimacy to the fact that these programs are still at least nominally part of the universities that they represent on television. But I also readily admit those horses are long since out of the barn and are never going to come back. It's also why I'll end my comments on the system here and return to just commenting on coach movements from here on out in this thread.
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That ship sailed quite a while ago. It is absurd that they even attend classes now, as we saw ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happen to UNC for their fraud "classes".
 
#92      
OrangeKrush1981
SeattleSlim said:
... The school could easily charge them a portion of their NIL for the privilege of wearing the brand (without which their value would be greatly diminished).
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Without the school branding and the fandom generations in the building, I'd put the value of such minor league basketball at round about zero. No one would care, no one would watch, there would be no TV money, and certainly no NIL money.
 
#97      
sbillini
jamarvelous31 said:
Schools would need leverage for this to happen.

They have so little that they are begging congress to save them.
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You confuse schools with DIA. Schools have all the leverage in the world against the DIA. DIAs exist at the whim of the school. DIA has been losing leverage against players that’s true.
 
#98      
sbillini
jamarvelous31 said:
This is a very silly thought.
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I know in the world of professional motor sports, drivers are often required to share a part of their endorsement deals with the team or or not their own endorsement deals all together. It was a big reason why Lewis Hamilton left McLaren for Mercedes - Mercedes was letting him sign his own endorsement deals.


With that said, I don’t think the schools would even have to do that. Force the DIA to feed some of its revenue back to the school general fund. Let the players keep their NIL.
 
#99      
mhuml32
Thaillini22 said:
If we're gonna call these shenanigans "capitalism" and give a pass to players who are just looking to get their bag, then it would be hypocritical to condem "whiny" coaches for bailing midseason. They're just being cut throat in the other direction, which the market also allows.

What is pretty clear to me is that neither side's behaviour is defensible. They're playing capitalism in a hall of funhouse mirrors.

But I still hope we make the F4.
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(1) One group is actually classified an employee and, therefore, has a variety of legal rights to ensure fair compensation, termination protections, on-time pay, and a variety of benefits. The other group has none of these protections.

(2) There are countless coaches playing the victim card in the media, blaming their careers, retirements, poor success, etc. on athletes gaining the same powers possessed by the coach. I'm sure there are grumblings from players about coaching career choices but it's an infinitely smaller percentage than coaches and they are at a substantial pulpit disadvantage.

(3) Coaches have been pulling these "shenanigans" for 30 years and only seen their financial and managerial power grow during that time. Now that players are starting to eat into that pie there is real strategy for coaches to continue to restrict athlete power as a means of self-protection.
 
#100      
FreshlySqueezed
mhuml32 said:
(1) One group is actually classified an employee and, therefore, has a variety of legal rights to ensure fair compensation, termination protections, on-time pay, and a variety of benefits. The other group has none of these protections.

(2) There are countless coaches playing the victim card in the media, blaming their careers, retirements, poor success, etc. on athletes gaining the same powers possessed by the coach. I'm sure there are grumblings from players about coaching career choices but it's an infinitely smaller percentage than coaches and they are at a substantial pulpit disadvantage.

(3) Coaches have been pulling these "shenanigans" for 30 years and only seen their financial and managerial power grow during that time. Now that players are starting to eat into that pie there is real strategy for coaches to continue to restrict athlete power as a means of self-protection.
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I'm not sure what your point is with any of this?

Job descriptions changed significantly. The why (more fair for the players) is irrelevant. Coaches need not sit silent about drastic changes to their jobs, and honestly, to their lives.

The current situation is not sustainable. Everyone knows that. But yeah, let's harp on the coach who is in his 70s and retires and give a pass to Skyy f'n Clark and his family.
 
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