Coaching Carousel (Football)

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#26      
Mr. Tibbs
hes not a bad coach, and hes certainly better than average, and perhaps better than 75%-80%
but last week , He would have lost to Freeman , even if they switched rosters before the game or at halftime

lets just say given the choice between him and Bret, I take Bret, ALL DAY EVERY DAY
Franklin would not recruit any better at Illinois, and I think my take of him being kind of a jerk is spot on.
Doesnt matter really. just my opinion
 
#27      
BretMyBeachHouse
wouldn't they actually have to punch through one time to be the case study? Or are you saying they're the case study for "You'll never punch through."
 
#36      
EyeoftheIllini
Illinicpa14 said:
Penn state is a case study of “you just gotta get to the playoffs (in any sport) and play in enough big ones and one time you’ll punch through”
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Agree. His championship window didn’t start until 2016. Since then, Dabo, Saban, and Kirby have won two each (6 in 7 years) with Orgeron being the only break during that timeframe. A whole lot of coaches couldn’t get over the hump during those years. Now last two years will have two different HCs win. His real championship window might just have started last year with NIL/transfer portal fully established. This year was a tough (bad) loss. Next 5 years or so will likely be key to his legacy. Let’s see how he does.
 
#37      
Ramrod2010
the juiceman cometh said:
Yeah, I get that that's a bad record against top opponents. A lot of good coaches have bad records in these games. Going into the 2023 season, Jim Harbaugh had a bad record vs. top-10 opponents too. Then in 2023 he won the whole thing. So guess he was able to figure that out, two decades into his coaching career. Bielema also does not have a stellar record against top 10 competition. Even if you look at his best seasons at Wisconsin, he wasn't doing well against top 10 competition. I still think he's a pretty good coach.

And I also don't think Penn St. is a program along the lines of OSU or Alabama or Notre Dame. It certainly wasn't when he took over. They pull in top 20 recruiting classes, not top 5. Those top-10 matchups are the ones where you really see who has the stronger, faster players, and Penn St. has been a program that recruits really well, but still falls short of the most elite recruiters. Maybe that's Franklin's fault, but I also just don't think Penn St. has the allure of some of those programs you typically see pulling in top 10 classes.
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So this is going to oversimplify things, but Franklin feels like (to me) Ron Zook Lite.

Imagine taking Zook, increasing recruiting slightly, decreasing air headedness, and decreasing in-game stupidity and I think you get Franklin.

And that doesn't mean he's bad, but I think we see the worst in him on random Saturdays (or whatever day college football is played on nowadays) where he doesn't adjust to a barge formation or he allows his QB to start slinging it with less than 40 seconds left in a tied game inside his own 30 where any turnover is going to lead a FG attempt. His in-game prowess just feels like it's less than it needs to be.

I could be way off but that's where my reservation on him stems from.

All that said, if I'm a PSU fan there is no way I'm moving on from him (yet) because a downgrade is significantly more likely than an upgrade. And ultimately just getting to the playoffs can lead to anything happening.
 
#39      
the juiceman cometh
Ramrod2010 said:
So this is going to oversimplify things, but Franklin feels like (to me) Ron Zook Lite.

Imagine taking Zook, increasing recruiting slightly, decreasing air headedness, and decreasing in-game stupidity and I think you get Franklin.

And that doesn't mean he's bad, but I think we see the worst in him on random Saturdays (or whatever day college football is played on nowadays) where he doesn't adjust to a barge formation or he allows his QB to start slinging it with less than 40 seconds left in a tied game inside his own 30 where any turnover is going to lead a FG attempt. His in-game prowess just feels like it's less than it needs to be.

I could be way off but that's where my reservation on him stems from.

All that said, if I'm a PSU fan there is no way I'm moving on from him (yet) because a downgrade is significantly more likely than an upgrade. And ultimately just getting to the playoffs can lead to anything happening.
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Yeah he's made some bad in-game decisions. I also think those get amplified because 1) he hasn't won the big one yet, and 2) people hate Penn St.

Even Saban has had some clunkers. His 4th down call to end the game against Michigan last year was a bad one. But it doesn't get the criticism that a Franklin bad call would because he's Nick effing Saban! He has won the big one, and then won it again, and then et cetera et cetera.

Franklin might not be the guy that's capable of winning it all. He probably isn't, but then again like 0.01% of football coaches are that guy. But like you say, the chance of finding better is less than the chance of getting saddled with worse. It's just funny that if you only read this board you'd think Franklin was possibly the worst coach in the Big Ten and that he abuses his staff and nobody wants to work with him. I just really don't understand where that perception comes from.
 
#41      
Mr. Tibbs
it’s not about him not winning a NC , thats rate air . We can all forgive that

so I’ll say it again :
As Penn State's coach, James Franklin owns an abysmal 4-19 record against opponents ranked in the Associated Press top 10 -- and is just 3-10 in such games when his team is also in the top 10.

thats really not good .
geez, hes 4-19 against top ten opponents
 
#42      
OskieWowWow
Mr. Tibbs said:
my guess is he didn’t exactly think working for Franklin was good for his current day to day mental health , and , long term it was an issue as well with Franklin’s ability to lead properly to win the big game .

I don’t think working for Franklin is easy
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Working for Dabo isn't easier
 
#43      
the juiceman cometh
Mr. Tibbs said:
it’s not about him not winning a NC , thats rate air . We can all forgive that

so I’ll say it again :
As Penn State's coach, James Franklin owns an abysmal 4-19 record against opponents ranked in the Associated Press top 10 -- and is just 3-10 in such games when his team is also in the top 10.

thats really not good .
geez, hes 4-19 against top ten opponents
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What is Bielema's record against top 10 opponents?
 
#45      
bluemountain
Mr. Tibbs said:
it’s not about him not winning a NC , thats rate air . We can all forgive that

so I’ll say it again :
As Penn State's coach, James Franklin owns an abysmal 4-19 record against opponents ranked in the Associated Press top 10 -- and is just 3-10 in such games when his team is also in the top 10.

thats really not good .
geez, hes 4-19 against top ten opponents
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How many coaches have a better record than that? My man got to the Final 4 this year and he always goes to a New Years Day caliber Bowl game. His teams have finished in the Top 10 5 of the last 9 years. The list of people who have accomplished that is awfully short.
 
#46      
the juiceman cometh
the juiceman cometh said:
What is Bielema's record against top 10 opponents?
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Decided to do my own research and answer this myself.

Overall: 6-24
Illinois: 1-4
Arkansas - 3-12
Wisconsin - 2-8

Top 10 matchups are hard to win. I also researched additional context on Franklin's record. His record vs. top 5 is 1-15. This accounts for a disproportionate number of those top 10 losses. This would make him 3-5 vs. opponents ranked 6-10. Since you brought up that this includes a 3-10 record when Penn St. is also in the top ten, I wondered about how many of these were games in which Penn St. was the higher ranked team. The answer is not a lot. Penn St. was the lower ranked team in 21 of the 25 games Franklin has coached against top 10 opponents.

That lines up with about where I view the Penn St. program. It is not one of the five best football teams in the country. It hasn't been that since around the time I was born. At its best, it has been a bottom-half of the top 10 kind of program. And that is about where Franklin has it playing. He may be incapable of getting it higher than that. I don't think that makes him a bad football coach. There's nothing in Bielema's history that would make you think he is capable of getting higher than that either - yet I think he's a very good football coach and I'm glad we have him.
 
#47      
Mr. Tibbs
both guys are pretty good coaches
that said , I’m glad they have Franklin
and I’m glad we have Brett

thats all for now
get back to me in 8-10 years for an update
 
#48      
MoCoMdIllini
the juiceman cometh said:
Decided to do my own research and answer this myself.

Overall: 6-24
Illinois: 1-4
Arkansas - 3-12
Wisconsin - 2-8

Top 10 matchups are hard to win. I also researched additional context on Franklin's record. His record vs. top 5 is 1-15. This accounts for a disproportionate number of those top 10 losses. This would make him 3-5 vs. opponents ranked 6-10. Since you brought up that this includes a 3-10 record when Penn St. is also in the top ten, I wondered about how many of these were games in which Penn St. was the higher ranked team. The answer is not a lot. Penn St. was the lower ranked team in 21 of the 25 games Franklin has coached against top 10 opponents.

That lines up with about where I view the Penn St. program. It is not one of the five best football teams in the country. It hasn't been that since around the time I was born. At its best, it has been a bottom-half of the top 10 kind of program. And that is about where Franklin has it playing. He may be incapable of getting it higher than that. I don't think that makes him a bad football coach. There's nothing in Bielema's history that would make you think he is capable of getting higher than that either - yet I think he's a very good football coach and I'm glad we have him.
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How many times was one of BB's teams ALSO in the top 10 vs Franklin's teams?
 
#49      
mhuml32
To defend Franklin for a minute - they're always playing UM and OSU much deeper into the season where the ranking is not a power ranking (potential) but a healthy dose of resume (reality). He also hasn't really had a chance like 2021 Illinois (against Penn State!) to play a team ranked top-10 at the time but more in-season evidence showed they stunk. They also have a sprinkling of wins against top 10-to-18 teams where PSU was the underdog.
 
#50      
mhuml32
Another piece for Franklin - he was an early adopter of playing a really weak non-conference schedule. That's hurt his reputation.....but now every other B1G and SEC team is trying to replicate.
 
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