Welp. A whole new bench next year, friends.
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sacraig
- The desert
How was he lied to, exactly?
1st post so please be kind:
For those who do not want to read a lot here is a synopsis: I think Gentry is SUPER valuable to BU and would be tough to replace
Now onto the longer version........
Quick question for those in the know on the value of Gentry to Underwood.
I was looking at coaching records and, as best as I could tell, Gentry has been on every staff that resulted in an Underwood coached team having a winning season and getting an NCAA berth (I'm counting the COVID year here since the team was "in"). There has been a lot of talk about the value of OA and Chin to the staff in terms of their dynamic recruiting and development of both the big men and the guards. I agree that both are big losses but can be mitigated with the hiring some an assistant that is a proven recruiter such as Mennenga (the name I see most often mentioned) and another assistant with a nose for developing players (sorry, I am not in the know enough to throw out relevant names here beyond Rev and Chet, who have been mentioned a lot)
My question is in regards to Gentry's value specifically to Underwood. Externally, Gentry seems to be the X's and O's guy but I am curious if he has a much greater value intrinsically to a BU led team. I am a long timer lurker of many Illini message boards and have read things that have ranged from Gentry being the guy who got BU to change his offensive and defensive schemes to the other assistants do not like that BU primarily listens to Gentry, etc. Does anyone else feel that the comfort and trust BU has in Gentry would be incredibly hard to replace and long-term, could be a bigger loss to the staff than OA and Chin?
We can argue X's and O's versus recruiting all day long and I agree that the Illini need top flight recruiters and a plethora of talent to succeed in the B1G, but with the B1G being such a well-scouted league I wonder if Gentry's value might just be higher than any other assistant since he seems to be a "basketball savant" in terms of the X's and O's and the asst. who also has BU's trust in regards to his suggestions about necessary changes.
Some thoughts/questions that have led me to this decision are as follows:
- BU played his "system" his first two seasons without Gentry. Yes I know culture, culture, and culture but at some point you have to think losing would have gotten old and changes would have to have been suggested by OA, Chin, and Walker.
-Did BU ignore suggestions those first two years?
-Did he just decide to run his preferred system out of coaching hubris since he had succeeded with his style before?
- Is Gentry just his most trusted assistant so he tends to listen to him over all others? Gentry was on staff at SFA and OSU.
- The pack line style D that Illinois changed to very similarly mirrors the pack line played by Groce's Illini teams (GASP) so was Walker the guy tasked with installing that after BU agreed to change. If yes, then it seems like Walker might have suggested the change in previous seasons.
Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated,
PC
For those who do not want to read a lot here is a synopsis: I think Gentry is SUPER valuable to BU and would be tough to replace
Now onto the longer version........
Quick question for those in the know on the value of Gentry to Underwood.
I was looking at coaching records and, as best as I could tell, Gentry has been on every staff that resulted in an Underwood coached team having a winning season and getting an NCAA berth (I'm counting the COVID year here since the team was "in"). There has been a lot of talk about the value of OA and Chin to the staff in terms of their dynamic recruiting and development of both the big men and the guards. I agree that both are big losses but can be mitigated with the hiring some an assistant that is a proven recruiter such as Mennenga (the name I see most often mentioned) and another assistant with a nose for developing players (sorry, I am not in the know enough to throw out relevant names here beyond Rev and Chet, who have been mentioned a lot)
My question is in regards to Gentry's value specifically to Underwood. Externally, Gentry seems to be the X's and O's guy but I am curious if he has a much greater value intrinsically to a BU led team. I am a long timer lurker of many Illini message boards and have read things that have ranged from Gentry being the guy who got BU to change his offensive and defensive schemes to the other assistants do not like that BU primarily listens to Gentry, etc. Does anyone else feel that the comfort and trust BU has in Gentry would be incredibly hard to replace and long-term, could be a bigger loss to the staff than OA and Chin?
We can argue X's and O's versus recruiting all day long and I agree that the Illini need top flight recruiters and a plethora of talent to succeed in the B1G, but with the B1G being such a well-scouted league I wonder if Gentry's value might just be higher than any other assistant since he seems to be a "basketball savant" in terms of the X's and O's and the asst. who also has BU's trust in regards to his suggestions about necessary changes.
Some thoughts/questions that have led me to this decision are as follows:
- BU played his "system" his first two seasons without Gentry. Yes I know culture, culture, and culture but at some point you have to think losing would have gotten old and changes would have to have been suggested by OA, Chin, and Walker.
-Did BU ignore suggestions those first two years?
-Did he just decide to run his preferred system out of coaching hubris since he had succeeded with his style before?
- Is Gentry just his most trusted assistant so he tends to listen to him over all others? Gentry was on staff at SFA and OSU.
- The pack line style D that Illinois changed to very similarly mirrors the pack line played by Groce's Illini teams (GASP) so was Walker the guy tasked with installing that after BU agreed to change. If yes, then it seems like Walker might have suggested the change in previous seasons.
Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated,
PC
You didn't know offers come with blood oaths from each member of the staff?
Have heard conflicted reports on this. Think the talks are stronger than they were a week ago but still think Few has a couple guys ahead of Gentry he wants to look at.
Chin didn’t lie to anyone.
You raise some really great and important questions here. Unfortunately I don't know the answers to any. Good post.1st post so please be kind:
For those who do not want to read a lot here is a synopsis: I think Gentry is SUPER valuable to BU and would be tough to replace
Now onto the longer version........
Quick question for those in the know on the value of Gentry to Underwood.
I was looking at coaching records and, as best as I could tell, Gentry has been on every staff that resulted in an Underwood coached team having a winning season and getting an NCAA berth (I'm counting the COVID year here since the team was "in"). There has been a lot of talk about the value of OA and Chin to the staff in terms of their dynamic recruiting and development of both the big men and the guards. I agree that both are big losses but can be mitigated with the hiring some an assistant that is a proven recruiter such as Mennenga (the name I see most often mentioned) and another assistant with a nose for developing players (sorry, I am not in the know enough to throw out relevant names here beyond Rev and Chet, who have been mentioned a lot)
My question is in regards to Gentry's value specifically to Underwood. Externally, Gentry seems to be the X's and O's guy but I am curious if he has a much greater value intrinsically to a BU led team. I am a long timer lurker of many Illini message boards and have read things that have ranged from Gentry being the guy who got BU to change his offensive and defensive schemes to the other assistants do not like that BU primarily listens to Gentry, etc. Does anyone else feel that the comfort and trust BU has in Gentry would be incredibly hard to replace and long-term, could be a bigger loss to the staff than OA and Chin?
We can argue X's and O's versus recruiting all day long and I agree that the Illini need top flight recruiters and a plethora of talent to succeed in the B1G, but with the B1G being such a well-scouted league I wonder if Gentry's value might just be higher than any other assistant since he seems to be a "basketball savant" in terms of the X's and O's and the asst. who also has BU's trust in regards to his suggestions about necessary changes.
Some thoughts/questions that have led me to this decision are as follows:
- BU played his "system" his first two seasons without Gentry. Yes I know culture, culture, and culture but at some point you have to think losing would have gotten old and changes would have to have been suggested by OA, Chin, and Walker.
-Did BU ignore suggestions those first two years?
-Did he just decide to run his preferred system out of coaching hubris since he had succeeded with his style before?
- Is Gentry just his most trusted assistant so he tends to listen to him over all others? Gentry was on staff at SFA and OSU.
- The pack line style D that Illinois changed to very similarly mirrors the pack line played by Groce's Illini teams (GASP) so was Walker the guy tasked with installing that after BU agreed to change. If yes, then it seems like Walker might have suggested the change in previous seasons.
Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated,
PC
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
It is even more massively important now that Trent and Monte are coming back with 2, and potentially 3, new ACs on the bench next year. They obviously have a lot of value on the court but their presence off the court is going to be so important to keep up our momentum. Great (super) senior leaders to have around to build a bridge to the next coaching regime.
BMoreIllini
- Baltimore, MD
I don't think Gentry is the main reason BU changed his system(s). In an interview around the time he made the change he said (I'm paraphrasing) that he would never let stubbornness get in the way of winning. People forget that in his year at OSU that his team struggled defensively and lost the first 6 games of Big 12 play. He made a defensive change that led them to making the NCAA tournament and during that stretch they were one of the hottest teams in college basketball (winning 10 of their next 11). I don't think BU let's himself get in his own way or in the way of his team winning. He's coached practically at every level and at every coaching position so I think if anyone would value the input of his staff, it would be him.1st post so please be kind:
For those who do not want to read a lot here is a synopsis: I think Gentry is SUPER valuable to BU and would be tough to replace
Now onto the longer version........
Quick question for those in the know on the value of Gentry to Underwood.
I was looking at coaching records and, as best as I could tell, Gentry has been on every staff that resulted in an Underwood coached team having a winning season and getting an NCAA berth (I'm counting the COVID year here since the team was "in"). There has been a lot of talk about the value of OA and Chin to the staff in terms of their dynamic recruiting and development of both the big men and the guards. I agree that both are big losses but can be mitigated with the hiring some an assistant that is a proven recruiter such as Mennenga (the name I see most often mentioned) and another assistant with a nose for developing players (sorry, I am not in the know enough to throw out relevant names here beyond Rev and Chet, who have been mentioned a lot)
My question is in regards to Gentry's value specifically to Underwood. Externally, Gentry seems to be the X's and O's guy but I am curious if he has a much greater value intrinsically to a BU led team. I am a long timer lurker of many Illini message boards and have read things that have ranged from Gentry being the guy who got BU to change his offensive and defensive schemes to the other assistants do not like that BU primarily listens to Gentry, etc. Does anyone else feel that the comfort and trust BU has in Gentry would be incredibly hard to replace and long-term, could be a bigger loss to the staff than OA and Chin?
We can argue X's and O's versus recruiting all day long and I agree that the Illini need top flight recruiters and a plethora of talent to succeed in the B1G, but with the B1G being such a well-scouted league I wonder if Gentry's value might just be higher than any other assistant since he seems to be a "basketball savant" in terms of the X's and O's and the asst. who also has BU's trust in regards to his suggestions about necessary changes.
Some thoughts/questions that have led me to this decision are as follows:
- BU played his "system" his first two seasons without Gentry. Yes I know culture, culture, and culture but at some point you have to think losing would have gotten old and changes would have to have been suggested by OA, Chin, and Walker.
-Did BU ignore suggestions those first two years?
-Did he just decide to run his preferred system out of coaching hubris since he had succeeded with his style before?
- Is Gentry just his most trusted assistant so he tends to listen to him over all others? Gentry was on staff at SFA and OSU.
- The pack line style D that Illinois changed to very similarly mirrors the pack line played by Groce's Illini teams (GASP) so was Walker the guy tasked with installing that after BU agreed to change. If yes, then it seems like Walker might have suggested the change in previous seasons.
Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated,
PC
Gentry was on staff at OSU, but it was as player development, not coaching, although maybe he had Brad's ear then too.
Here's a good article about the defensive change at OSU and another offensive turnaround he was a part of as an assistant under Frank Martin.
Last edited:
Deleted member 747671
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For those in the know, how established is the pecking order on a typical staff? Like in football, obviously the OC is higher than the DL coach, etc. In basketball are the 3 assistants more or less on even footing? I guess what I'm getting at is, with Chin and OA leaving, can BU offer Gentry the OC-equivalent, basically make him the number 1 assistant? Or would it not really matter and it would all come down to money and comfort?
pc2004: Gentry is a valuable piece for Underwood. Gentry was/is a defensive specialist and emerging recruiter. He had never been an assistant coach (recruiter) until Underwood hired him. There are plenty of top defensive coaches and better recruiters. I have total confidence in Underwood to find a great replacement. There is a lot of chatter about Chester Frazier coming to Illinois. He has coached two all-conference defensive players as an assistant. Remember the years he was with Weber at K-State, they made the NCAA tournament. He left, Weber and K-State dropped. Now Kedrick Prince has recruits asking him if Chester is coming to Illinois. He is a hot, up and coming coach. I will be surprised if he dosen't end up as one of the coaches. He would fill dual requirements as Recruiter and Defensive Coach.
The #1 recuiter usually makes the most money. Gentry is not close to that value.
Well, Frazier can relate as someone who improved his 3-point shooting quite a bit, right? Seems like he would be a really good hire especially if paired with a top notch recruiter.
Chet is awesome.
Connected to Storr is a huge bonus.
I’ve got my hopes up.
Connected to Storr is a huge bonus.
I’ve got my hopes up.
Can we seriously please stop calling him Chet? It just sounds so wrong, and I have never heard him referred to as that. Perhaps those of you that are personal friends with him, call him that...IDK
Illini92and96
- Austin, TX
He's just reconsidering his car insurance options. Or angling to be the new spokesman when Chris Paul retires.
Winter. No way. The head assistant makes the most money. This usually goes to the #1 recruiter. Gentry is still a lower level assistant.
Thank you for the reply. Great points.
I did not mean my post to be any criticism on BU. I have plenty but this is, for sure, not one of them. His staff of OA, Chin, and Gentry was well thought out and addressed BU's perceived areas of weakness, while also bringing in a guy who he trusts fully.
I meant it more as Gentry is his right hand man and the guy he listens to over all over assistants or at least externally I have come to that conclusion. I guess I have wondered more about the idea of hiring assistants that you do not have a personal connection with vs those you do. I have coached at low levels of the NCAA for 7 years now and as assistants change (in my case its money, but it is lack of money haha) and I know that every coach tends to fall into a pattern that they are comfortable with in terms of rosters, schemes, etc. I was wondering if possibly Gentry is the guy who helps BU realize that certain parts of his scheme might not be ideal and convinces him to change them, adapt them, scrap them, etc. I know as a coach who has had success, there is some level of arrogance. You don't ascend to the heights that BU has without total confidence in your system/skill/etc.
With the possibility of total staff turnover, I have a few questions as well:
Much of this is predicated on Kofi returning I am sure but....
Do you feel we will see a change to the D possibly if there is a whole new staff? Will BU throw in some of his "on the line, up the line" full Deny Defense?
Do you think there will be some of BU's "Spread" mixed in or do you think it will predominantly be the high ball screen initiated offense with everyone else just spacing the floor?
In regards to OSU defensive changes, wasn't Gentry on staff there as well or am I misremembering?
Thanks PC2004. Thanks for posting...and interesting commentary. I do believe Gentry is special X &O guy who is worth keeping. I didn't realize the correlation of gentry and BU winning seasons...good stuff!1st post so please be kind:
For those who do not want to read a lot here is a synopsis: I think Gentry is SUPER valuable to BU and would be tough to replace
Now onto the longer version........
Quick question for those in the know on the value of Gentry to Underwood.
I was looking at coaching records and, as best as I could tell, Gentry has been on every staff that resulted in an Underwood coached team having a winning season and getting an NCAA berth (I'm counting the COVID year here since the team was "in"). There has been a lot of talk about the value of OA and Chin to the staff in terms of their dynamic recruiting and development of both the big men and the guards. I agree that both are big losses but can be mitigated with the hiring some an assistant that is a proven recruiter such as Mennenga (the name I see most often mentioned) and another assistant with a nose for developing players (sorry, I am not in the know enough to throw out relevant names here beyond Rev and Chet, who have been mentioned a lot)
My question is in regards to Gentry's value specifically to Underwood. Externally, Gentry seems to be the X's and O's guy but I am curious if he has a much greater value intrinsically to a BU led team. I am a long timer lurker of many Illini message boards and have read things that have ranged from Gentry being the guy who got BU to change his offensive and defensive schemes to the other assistants do not like that BU primarily listens to Gentry, etc. Does anyone else feel that the comfort and trust BU has in Gentry would be incredibly hard to replace and long-term, could be a bigger loss to the staff than OA and Chin?
We can argue X's and O's versus recruiting all day long and I agree that the Illini need top flight recruiters and a plethora of talent to succeed in the B1G, but with the B1G being such a well-scouted league I wonder if Gentry's value might just be higher than any other assistant since he seems to be a "basketball savant" in terms of the X's and O's and the asst. who also has BU's trust in regards to his suggestions about necessary changes.
Some thoughts/questions that have led me to this decision are as follows:
- BU played his "system" his first two seasons without Gentry. Yes I know culture, culture, and culture but at some point you have to think losing would have gotten old and changes would have to have been suggested by OA, Chin, and Walker.
-Did BU ignore suggestions those first two years?
-Did he just decide to run his preferred system out of coaching hubris since he had succeeded with his style before?
- Is Gentry just his most trusted assistant so he tends to listen to him over all others? Gentry was on staff at SFA and OSU.
- The pack line style D that Illinois changed to very similarly mirrors the pack line played by Groce's Illini teams (GASP) so was Walker the guy tasked with installing that after BU agreed to change. If yes, then it seems like Walker might have suggested the change in previous seasons.
Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated,
PC
On the trust and listening to other coaches...who knows on that. I do think that a great HC hires excellent ACs with difft strengths and has systems and processes for development and preparation that are tested and proven.....and hopefully enduring.
Similarly, Nick Saban is not recognized as a great X and o coach...but he is intensely disciplined, process guy, culture builder and hires great assistants that learn, implement and sell his processes. Difft sport, but I believe BU is similar w.r.t. enduring processes.
Whoops, I guess it helps if my computer loads your complete comment. Gentry was on staff at OSU. Thanks.
Thank you for the article. I will read up on it.
Appreciate any more thoughts and input.
Sorry friend. I’ll switch to Coach Frazier I guess.
gonna need an acronym.
IACCF
Deleted member 747671
D
Guest
Thanks and that was always my assumption. I knew OA was the clear #1, but didn't know if that was normal. Like with Groce or Weber, did they really have a true #1 assistant? Basically how far would BU go to keep Gentry? If he's that important, can you throw some weird title behind it (similar to making the WR coach, pass game coordinator) and just give him a sizeable raise, while still bringing in a #1 assistant in the OA mold?
Thanks for some additional info.
I am all for Chester F joining the staff. Sounds like he would be an excellent hire. I had not kept up on his coaching path after he left K-State.
Thanks,
PC
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