By your logic Fleck wouldn't have left WMU in 2016?
Coaching Discussion/Carousel
- Status
Deleted member 747671
D
Guest
He was available when Lovie was hired. I think that's the point. At that time, he had back to back 8 win seasons at WMU and was bringing in recruiting classes not far off from what we see at Illinois.
In March '16? I'd bet the farm no, he would not have left. Whitman was only officially confirmed as AD in February '16, and then hired Lovie a couple weeks later. That firing of Cubit/hiring of Lovie was so far outside the normal job cycle.
Lol. Well you'd lose the farm. Fleck was the guy if they couldn't get Lovie. Bad choice by admin. If anyone knows Fleck he is just trying to move on the the next bigger and better thing, P5 job at Illinois would have been it at the time.
If JW truly targeted Lovie ahead of Fleck, then JW messed up big time. One was an up and coming college coach, crazy familiar with the Midwest, the Big 10, was killing it in recruiting, and could have been had for very affordable $$'s. The other was a fading NFL coach, out of the college game for 20 or so years.
Many of Lovie‘s games are the type where we are losing from start to end. Texas is winni g games then finds ways to lose games in the 4th quarter. We have not seen Lovie lose a close game due to a bone headed call. But I understand where you are coming from
RedRocksIllini
- Morrison, CO
If we play that game then we probably have to take away the Rutgers win. Rutgers OC Sean Gleeson had to be the only guy in New Jersey that didn't hear J Leman screaming "For the love of all that's holy and sacred Rutgers, don't let Vedral throw the ball!!" in the fourth quarter.
I get the what if game, true, you have a point. But 6 times in the RZ and only scoring 2 times is bad.
0440, so you’re saying Whitman should have taken Fleck (after his 2nd 8-5 season at WMU) over the unconventional/high-risk, high-reward hire that was Lovie? And that there was actual mutual interest?
Fleck didn’t have his magical 13-1 Cotton Bowl season (Where they beat the snot out of us) until long after Lovie was hired. So you’re saying JW saw the potential but went in a different direction?
I don’t know if I would be totally wowed by 8-5 seasons considering WMU wasn’t a complete dumpster fire when Fleck took over. Maybe the speed of the turnaround is what caught JW’s eye (plus his ties to the state)? But I’m not sure if anyone saw the 13-1 season coming. Honestly I’m surprised he didn’t get a job bigger than Minny after that year.
I’m sure Fleck would have left WMU in March for our job if he wanted it...I wouldn’t put much past that guy when it comes to climbing the coaching ladder.
On a side note, I’m still not totally sold on him. He basically had an amazing season with the culmination of Jerry Kills last few recruiting classes. I’ll judge this one in 2 years when it’s entirely his program...the Babers evaluation if you will.
1. Yes he should have taken the young energetic up and comer over the 58 year old NFL retread. But not my previous post where i said admin screwed up not specifically JW. And yes there was more than just mutual interest.
2. I get the skepticism on 8-5 but the way he was recruiting at WMU was kinda crazy.
3. I don't really like the guy and agree on not being completely sold but I think we would be better off in year 5 with him than Lovie.
Minnesota's 2019 season was all Fleck in my view. Most of the offensive leaders were his guys. Kill's classes were ok, Clayes' were lower 20% of B10. Credit needs to be given for Fleck getting production from that group.
Yeah, Fleck's recruiting is never going to be the thing that I will question. He does rub me the wrong way with his gimmicks but hey he wins. My biggest question is what happens when he doesn't have a ton more upward mobility and his staff that seems to move with him all start to leave and get other jobs. Will his scheme fall apart or is he connected enough to keep bringing in good positional coaches as his staff eventually churns.
I'm going to be in the big minority on this, but unless Fleck were to win a chip, I don't care how much better we would be than Lovie. I can't stand the guy that much. I'm still wondering at some point if he is going to put MN in some kind of story for something extremely embarrassing. Needless to say, I'm ready to move on from Lovie.
There was tremendous pressure to hire a minority coach; if it hadn't been Lovie, it would have been someone like Babers
Illinivek23
- Gurnee
He has already had multiple OCs and DCs, so it looks like he can attract talent besides what follows him. But taking him in 2016 would have been controversial - didn't he replace Cubit at WMU?
RedRocksIllini
- Morrison, CO
I'll join your minority. I have the feeling that the Fleck shtick is going to end very poorly for Minnesota. I have a couple friends connected to their athletic department and they said they knew that both of their $$ coaches were high risk. Fun to win some games and generate some excitement but the downside could be costly. I think the hope is that they take off for greener pastures before imploding.
Are we in the same boat again? Due to the landscape of America right now, are we obligated to hire a minority coach regardless of him being the best fit? Personally, I want the right coach. I don't care if he black, blue, green or purple. I want an energetic,, young with a knack for recruiting who can communicate well with the young athletes and a knack for winning. I know that is a lot to ask for
I think everyone should read up on Lance Liepold and his staff. All of liepolds guys have major Midwest ties and they are very loyal to him. Some have followed him from UW-whitewater and he seems to have a cohesive staff. His recruiting coordinator used to work at Notre Dame and was the recruiting coordinator there as well.
I am not pro or con on Fleck but how many on this board would turn down a better job and 3 times the money if offered. I think some people act pretty sanctimonious when it comes to someone looking to advance their career. Obviously you wouldn't want to have someone backstabbing someone to get a better job but if you produce and earn it then what's the big deal.
BZuppke
- Plainfield
A good AD makes good hires. Fleck wanted the Illinois job pre- JW. Our interim AD wouldn’t make a move. I think by the time JW was hired Fleck had recommitted to WMU and was not avail or certainly not campaigning for the job. JW hired Lovie within days of his own hiring. He didn’t conduct a search.
Fleck is a very good coach and has and will do well at Minnesota despite those on the forum who are wishing him ill. He’s a great recruiter and a good coach. We missed again.
Fleck is a very good coach and has and will do well at Minnesota despite those on the forum who are wishing him ill. He’s a great recruiter and a good coach. We missed again.
It’s looking that way, and at the very least it SEEMS he would have put Illinois in a better spot than Lovie has.
But we shall see if he is the real deal. He’s had a rough drop off after his awesome year that had a defense almost exclusively recruited by Kill and Claeys. Time will tell. It’s crazy how you have to spend half a decade to truly know what you have in some of these coaches.
After Babers’ 10-3 season, I was so mad at our indecision back during the “not ideal” days and that we didn’t get him. Now I’m not so sure he has any staying power.
Illinivek23
- Gurnee
I was never upset that we didn't pursue Babers too heavily - seemed like a guy that just wanted to outscore people and not play defense. Why I was excited about Lovie and establishing a defensive identity. While it may not be as exciting as having an offensive HC, it should be more consistent. Just hasn't turned out that way.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
This is the guy I have been championing for the past couple of years. I doubt we are going to see a change this offseason and Liepold would be smart to capitalize on his success and see if he can jump into a better job ($$). Will be interesting if he wants to further his roots in NY (Syracuse) or if he'll wait for a Midwest opening.
Deleted member 747671
D
Guest
Great minds....
I posted about that a few pages back. I was pleasantly surprised with his staff. A lot of loyalty, but also some guys with good experience at bigger programs. The 2 biggest takeaways for me were the loyalty of his assistants to him, and their deep midwest roots. Could do a hell of a lot worse than Leipold. My biggest fear with lower level guys is them getting their top choices in assistants to either follow him or join him. I think Leipold would be able to bring the guys he wants with him.
- Status