No way I'm keeping up with all this... I'll wait for all the official announcements and then check the CliffsNotes.
College Hoops Coaching Carousel
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If college athletics were logical
I saw an article yesterday — can’t remember where — on how Arizona State should let Hurley go. He hasn’t been terrible, but he hasn’t been very good either. Not unexpectedly, his first 2 seasons at ASU were bad, but I think he’s only like 5 games over .500 in conference since then. And all of their NCAA tourney bids have been First Fours, though he did win two of them.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The reality of it is that Texas doesn't want to and doesn't intend to give the job to Terry. If they lose on Friday that will be the end of it and the search proceeds.
But if they win the national championship, it will become very difficult not to retain Terry, not least of which because the job becomes less appealing if you're stepping into a situation in which the reigning national champion has just gotten fired.
All of which is to say, the situation is unknowable to any actor right now, even those fully on the inside. So everyone, Chris Del Conte, BU, Whitman, Sean Miller, whoever, are just flapping their gums at this point as the tectonic plates upon which the coaching carousel will play out have not yet formed.
But wouldn't Whitman be worried that Miller might use us as a stepping stone?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I'd be ecstatic with Miller (and especially that staff) and maybe this is just the new "Wild West" of college hoops in general, but ... would it not bother us inherently if Brad were "looking for a way out," regardless of whom we get to replace him? Unless we just chalk this up to a uniquely Brad Underwood issue, it's pretty alarming ... he has everything he needs to win, and more importantly/sobering - everything Illinois Basketball has to offer anyone. Facilities, fertile recruiting grounds, tradition of winning, large/passionate fan support, exposure in huge media markets, Big Ten security/TV money, etc.
Texas is one thing, as they are truly unique in college sports as far as money (literally 30 times the endowment of most schools, due to oil royalties, IIRC), but Arkansas?! What on Earth is there at Arkansas that there isn't here? A SLIGHTLY better tradition to a point where it doesn't move the needle whatsoever?? I have a hard time believing their facilities outclass ours to a point of wanting to move. Administrative support? I'd be shocked. Recruiting footprint? No comparison. Fan support? Looks to pretty much be a draw, as both are phenomenal. NIL money? That would be extremely sad on our part ... Illinois has more and wealthier alumni than Arkansas and larger metro areas from which to draw support.
Again, "bruised pride" is the only way I would feel even if Underwood is back but it's heavily rumored he wants out. This should be a job people rarely if ever leave, and a superb AD like Whitman is the icing on the cake.
Texas is one thing, as they are truly unique in college sports as far as money (literally 30 times the endowment of most schools, due to oil royalties, IIRC), but Arkansas?! What on Earth is there at Arkansas that there isn't here? A SLIGHTLY better tradition to a point where it doesn't move the needle whatsoever?? I have a hard time believing their facilities outclass ours to a point of wanting to move. Administrative support? I'd be shocked. Recruiting footprint? No comparison. Fan support? Looks to pretty much be a draw, as both are phenomenal. NIL money? That would be extremely sad on our part ... Illinois has more and wealthier alumni than Arkansas and larger metro areas from which to draw support.
Again, "bruised pride" is the only way I would feel even if Underwood is back but it's heavily rumored he wants out. This should be a job people rarely if ever leave, and a superb AD like Whitman is the icing on the cake.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Yep, it's hard to overstate how BAD things were at Illinois when Whitman took this gig. We regularly appeared on "sleeping giant" lists, but it was all talk; Whitman showed that in a short time period we could catapult to being nationally relevant in both major sports (insanely more impressive in football), and he's not done. Not even close. Josh is a gem.
True, even if BU stays we are likely going to be having this discussion every offseason from now on, especially if no deeper runs in March ensue, will only be a matter of time....
Texas won’t even get to the Final Four. . . because I have them there in my bracket.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Also, the narrative around Texas really shows the death of "traditional college sports" in favor of money rules all. Don't get me wrong, this has been primarily about money for decades ... but this is a whole new ballgame. Texas is not a traditional basketball power, and THAT is how you used to be able to attract big-time coaches. Texas hired Rick Barnes from Clemson and his predecessor from Rhode Island - not Arkansas or Illinois. Know why? Because they had 2 Final Fours back in the 1940s (zero National Championships), had been to two Sweet Sixteens since the 3-pointer was invented and they were consistently "okay" for most of their history. They gave Barnes 17 seasons, the last four of which were Bubble teams and First Round losses. Know why? Because their fans did not really hold their program to an "elite" standard, quite clearly.
I guess as the "rich get richer" in college sports, the true giants have emerged, and they have thought ... why shouldn't we dominate everything? I TOTALLY get why Texas might just have the most potential of any program in the nation and why they'd have sky-high expectations ... but it's just kind of weird to contemplate.
I guess as the "rich get richer" in college sports, the true giants have emerged, and they have thought ... why shouldn't we dominate everything? I TOTALLY get why Texas might just have the most potential of any program in the nation and why they'd have sky-high expectations ... but it's just kind of weird to contemplate.
It all depends on who the replacement is. If it actually is a Sean Miller type, then fans will get over BU very very fast.
On the other hand, if we interview some big names and all of them turn us down, that's when we start to wonder how well our resources actually stack up to the rest.
GallopingGhost
- Denver, CO
I’d say if they reach final four you’d have a very tough time not keeping him. It sucks there’s a bar in a single elimination random tournament but it exists.
And yes 0440, that is certainly illogical.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
It would be a pretty big hit to the image of this program, IMO. Taking Kruger from Florida and Underwood from Oklahoma State is where we should be ... not taking Weber from SIU or Groce from Ohio. That all comes down to timing and the AD, but let's take our personal fan emotions/disappointments out of this one and look at it objectively ... Illinois should be a destination, and if it's not, the problem is both (A) us and (B) fixable!
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
It's always kinda flowed in the direction of the collective financial resources of those that passionately care about winning in basketball.
Kansas and Kentucky were groundbreakers in terms of luxury facilities and all that in recent decades. And of course were the most innovative and lucrative in terms of getting money directly to the players too.
30 years ago Austin was a weird little hippie town and the University of Texas was part of an all-football-all-the-time hothouse of a conference that didn't really have any vision beyond its own state border. Things have changed a ton down there from the period in which the legacy brands built their traditions. And we're now in an era in college sports where a Texas has the financial resources to not just compete with but swamp a Kansas or Kentucky.
The fact that schools who have lost out on the great conference drama like Kansas and North Carolina are still regarded as apex jobs actually powerfully speaks to how much that tradition and legacy fanbase passion still matters.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I just took a read through the last few pages of the Texas message board's thread about their next coach. Some interesting tidbits, only of course applying to some fans' anecdotal attitudes:
(1) While I'm sure their boosters have inflated egos and demand some splash hire, that does not seem to apply to their fans. A lot of comments about "not being a basketball Blue Blood" and this being their first Sweet Sixteen since 2008. It's understandable for fans to have a different outlook than the boosters, but a lot of those posters seem to view Texas basketball as closer to "how it's always been" than "what it should be."
(2) Terry seems pretty damn popular. I saw quite a few posters stating it would actually be pretty crazy not to hire him.
(3) Not one mention of Brad Underwood.
(1) While I'm sure their boosters have inflated egos and demand some splash hire, that does not seem to apply to their fans. A lot of comments about "not being a basketball Blue Blood" and this being their first Sweet Sixteen since 2008. It's understandable for fans to have a different outlook than the boosters, but a lot of those posters seem to view Texas basketball as closer to "how it's always been" than "what it should be."
(2) Terry seems pretty damn popular. I saw quite a few posters stating it would actually be pretty crazy not to hire him.
(3) Not one mention of Brad Underwood.
A) the grass is always greener elsewhere; B) a lot of people get antsy or bored with their current jobs after 4 or 5 years or so; C) it's easier to find a job when you are viewed as up and coming than when you are a known entity. Let's face it, we underachieved this year and BU is developing a reputation for flaming out early in the tournament. If he goes say 9-11 in conference play next year, he will be a year away from potentially losing his job unless he turns things around.
Given those circumstances, if say Arkansas offered him $6M year for 5 years, would you blame him for thinking seriously about it?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I would question his judgement thinking it'd be easier to win at Arkansas than Illinois, but if we (very foolishly) couldn't counter that? I suppose making $6 million vs. $4.2 million is a pretty big bump, so yes - money always talks!
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
Legit question.....Has Terry even said he's interested in the Head coaching position if offered???
To be fair, there was no mention of Brad Underwood before we hired him.
What are the chances that Whitman is not happy with more than just the fact that Underwood is testing the waters for two straight years? Is it possible that Underwood doesn’t want to change who his is, and Whitman thinks he needs to? Maybe this is why Underwood is looking elsewhere and Whitman has talked to Miller?
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
I know it is very likely that BU ends up staying this year and the staff gets retooled for maybe one more push at success. But after what was said this morning I am very much at piece with the idea that maybe its time to move on, especially if the coach is not seeing eye to eye with the AD + boosters. Winning can cure anything, but it's hard to see a huge improvement coming if all of the cogs are not turning together. Now, I will regret saying that if BU leaves and we end up on our 5th choice for coach who is just a John Groce 2.0. But if Josh seems to have a pretty good thing aligning with Sean Miller then I am kind of eager to move towards that. Very, very few coaches out there will have us as their true dream job they would never willingly leave, I understand that. But if BU isn't happy here and is looking for an exit, then I am not excited to see someone with that mindset leading us into the future.
In Josh we trust.
In Josh we trust.
Zero mention on the Texas side and this only coming from Illinois means he's more likely than not going to be the coach next year
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