D-1 Hockey at Illinois?

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#51      

LubbockIlliniFan

LubbockIlliniFan
Savoy, IL
LubbockIlliniFan
Calvin said:
Interesting. I don't see how you get the financials to work, especially without a venue to start with, and Title IX implications. That said, I've been to many B10 hockey games, and they're a lot of fun. Small arenas for the most part, filled with passionate fans (assuming the team is any good). The cheap hits and fighting are taken very seriously, so it's mostly actual hockey, if you like that sort of thing.
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For Title IX, if they add a men's team, they could easily add a women's as well, the issue is a new facility. The fact that the NHL, Chicago Blackhawks, and U of I want a D-1 hockey program in the state of Illinois is a telling sign. This will happen, a lot of the kids who play up north are going out of state once they find out that their state school only has a club program
 
#52      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal
mattcoldagelli
LubbockIlliniFan said:
For Title IX, if they add a men's team, they could easily add a women's as well, the issue is a new facility.
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Right, it's not super complicated on that front, I wouldn't think -add men's and women's hockey. Might be out of date, but I feel like I read there are more interested women's hockey players than programs/scholarships available right now.
 
#53      

South Farms

S
near Ogden & Rt 83
South Farms
the B1G might be more interested if we add mens hockey and womens Lax.

that's where I think this is going
 
#54      

icengineer

I
Southern Illinois
icengineer
I'd imagine womens lacrosse would be a much cheaper sport to operate then a womens hockey team. Does Title IX require the athlete count to be equal?
 
#55      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
icengineer said:
I'd imagine womens lacrosse would be a much cheaper sport to operate then a womens hockey team. Does Title IX require the athlete count to be equal?
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My understanding is that the counts have to be equal, but not the sports. For example, there is a women's swim team, but no men's team as I recall.
 
#56      

FollowTisdale

F
FollowTisdale
Scholarships have to be equal to pass Title IX muster, not the sports. I have passing knowledge of hockey #s and no knowledge of lax #s, but I assume those scholarship counts would be close to equal. They might do it like baseball, 8 or so scholarships are split among the whole team through partial scholarships.
 
#57      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
FollowTisdale said:
Scholarships have to be equal to pass Title IX muster, not the sports. I have passing knowledge of hockey #s and no knowledge of lax #s, but I assume those scholarship counts would be close to equal. They might do it like baseball, 8 or so scholarships are split among the whole team through partial scholarships.
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12.75 scholarships for men's lax iirc
 
#58      

South Farms

S
near Ogden & Rt 83
South Farms
icengineer said:
I'd imagine womens lacrosse would be a much cheaper sport to operate then a womens hockey team. Does Title IX require the athlete count to be equal?
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womens lax would be cheaper , not sure by what magnitude, but it would cost less. you could easily operate mens hockey and womens lax with the same amount of full/partial scholarships

B1G has a womens lax league. no hockey league. I can tell you where they want this to go , as a result of programming for the network.

regardless, womens hockey would draw about 50 people to the games. Womens lax about 75. this is all about mens hockey and finding the right womens sport to go with it. there is zero grass roots support for girls hockey , but quite a bit more for lax.
 
#59      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
South Farms said:
womens lax would be cheaper , not sure by what magnitude, but it would cost less. you could easily operate mens hockey and womens lax with the same amount of full/partial scholarships

B1G has a womens lax league. no hockey league. I can tell you where they want this to go , as a result of programming for the network.

regardless, womens hockey would draw about 50 people to the games. Womens lax about 75. this is all about mens hockey and finding the right womens sport to go with it. there is zero grass roots support for girls hockey , but quite a bit more for lax.
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What you sweetie makes perfect sense, but I would hate to see men's lacrosse suffer ( not added) if they chose your path.

The Big Ten has men's lacrosse and is looking to grow it. Illinois would be a natural fit.

If Illinois misses the opportunity to add men's lacrosse, along with womens' sure when they will be able to get another chance.
 
#60      

LubbockIlliniFan

LubbockIlliniFan
Savoy, IL
LubbockIlliniFan
IlliniJim20 said:
What you sweetie makes perfect sense, but I would hate to see men's lacrosse suffer ( not added) if they chose your path.

The Big Ten has men's lacrosse and is looking to grow it. Illinois would be a natural fit.

If Illinois misses the opportunity to add men's lacrosse, along with womens' sure when they will be able to get another chance.
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The fact that the NHL is behind this, plus the Chicago Blackhawks, leads me to believer that D-1 hockey will happen...
 
#61      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
IlliniJim20 said:
What you sweetie makes perfect sense, but I would hate to see men's lacrosse suffer ( not added) if they chose your path.

The Big Ten has men's lacrosse and is looking to grow it. Illinois would be a natural fit.

If Illinois misses the opportunity to add men's lacrosse, along with womens' sure when they will be able to get another chance.
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Boy, I should really proofread my typos. :doh:
 
#63      

KSmooth

K
KSmooth
I dunno. I'd love to see it work, but central Illinois doesn't strike me as a big hockey area. Correct me if I'm mistaken but the culture of this region really seems to me to be about basketball. I have to figure that Illini hockey won't draw all that many folks from outside of the campus. U of I hockey will really have to depend on students from Chicago and St. Louis and other hockey hotbeds, especially in the early years. Maybe if they do well early the locals will develop an interest, but it will be precarious for a while.
 
#64      

bobbob

B
bobbob
Ice Hockey has an 18 scholarship limit in D1 for both mens and womens.

LAX is 12.6 for men, 12 for women.

Both are equivalency (not head count) sports. The scholarships can be split up.

It should also be noted that Illinois does not have a womens field hockey team (12 scholarships), which is a B1G sponsored sport played by 9 of the schools. Women's LAX is played by 7. Womens Rowing is also a B1G sport (20 scholarships), but I struggle to see them going down Boneyard with that.
 
#65      

LubbockIlliniFan

LubbockIlliniFan
Savoy, IL
LubbockIlliniFan
KSmooth said:
I dunno. I'd love to see it work, but central Illinois doesn't strike me as a big hockey area. Correct me if I'm mistaken but the culture of this region really seems to me to be about basketball. I have to figure that Illini hockey won't draw all that many folks from outside of the campus. U of I hockey will really have to depend on students from Chicago and St. Louis and other hockey hotbeds, especially in the early years. Maybe if they do well early the locals will develop an interest, but it will be precarious for a while.
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I wouldn't say that Central Illinois is a hockey hotbed, but with two NHL teams with in a few hours drive there is a drawl.

There is a also a fairly big youth hockey following in town of Champaign, Danville, Decatur, Springfield, Peoria, Pekin. I really think that if we move to D-1, there will be people that will come to support the team. Its fun, fast paced, hard hitting.
 
#67      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
bobbob said:
Ice Hockey has an 18 scholarship limit in D1 for both mens and womens.

LAX is 12.6 for men, 12 for women.

Both are equivalency (not head count) sports. The scholarships can be split up.

It should also be noted that Illinois does not have a womens field hockey team (12 scholarships), which is a B1G sponsored sport played by 9 of the schools. Women's LAX is played by 7. Womens Rowing is also a B1G sport (20 scholarships), but I struggle to see them going down Boneyard with that.
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Thank you for the details.

Question wrt to the NCAA. Using your lax example, is 12.6 v 12 good enough or Title IX as far as the NCAA is concerned? Or would Illinois, assuming all scholarship numbers are equal right now, have to somehow provide .6, or rounding to 1, more scholarship somewhere?
 
#68      

bobbob

B
bobbob
IlliniJim20 said:
Thank you for the details.

Question wrt to the NCAA. Using your lax example, is 12.6 v 12 good enough or Title IX as far as the NCAA is concerned? Or would Illinois, assuming all scholarship numbers are equal right now, have to somehow provide .6, or rounding to 1, more scholarship somewhere?
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12.6 is not 12, so they are not equal.

You are not required to fund all the scholarships though. You could just fund 12 mens LAX scholarships and then be in balance.
 
#69      

Bucktown

B
Bucktown
Dan said:
Two developers, one project, competing ideas

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2017-11-19/two-developers-one-project-competing-ideas.html
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If the DIA decides hockey is worth it, the downtown site is much superior.
The downtown site would result in a better experience for fans and have a bigger impact on the community. Going to dinner or a bar before or after a hockey game downtown would be a positive experience. The other site is in the middle of nowhere. Hockey draws well currently because it in the middle of everything on campus.

The News Gazette seems to be carrying water for Peter Fox. Some of the cons of the downtown site are comical. A con for the downtown site becuase it is in a 'blighted area'? First the downtown site is not a 'blighted area', but if it was shouldn't that be a reason to put it there instead of in the middle of windswept parking lots and farms?
 
#70      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
bobbob said:
12.6 is not 12, so they are not equal.

You are not required to fund all the scholarships though. You could just fund 12 mens LAX scholarships and then be in balance.
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Thanks for all your insight.

Given Title IX implications, I am surprised Women's lacrosse is not upped to 12.6, or Men's reduced to 12.

Perfect example that if a school is in balance, and wants to add lacrosse, they have to underfund one sport.
 
#72      

KSmooth

K
KSmooth
Looks like someone is backing down from D1 Hockey, at least for the next several years.
 
#73      

Deleted member 3875

D
Guest
Deleted member 3875
Make this happen. Surely we can win at least ONE B1G hockey game.
 
#74      

Illiini

Illiini
In the land of the Nittany Lion
Illiini
It looks from the N-G article Whitman is still bullish on D1 hockey. I didn’t realize the current rink is 87 years old, but of course I was going to games there 50 years ago and it seemed old then.
 
#75      

South Farms

S
near Ogden & Rt 83
South Farms
my take on all this is the UI is moving slow for obvious reasons of money. The physical structures needed to do this correctly are VERY EXPENSIVE and unless someone or some group comes up with a huge gift towards it, it will stay a back burner item until the football stadium is addressed.


you add a mens hockey team, you need to add a womens hockey or LAX team as well. Funding all those schollies and the team personnel costs have to be quite a bit of an annual expense.


PennSt was able to do it because Terry & Kim Pegula family came up with $88 million and then added another $14 million to make it $102 million.


If someone came to Whitman with that, the ceremony with 5 people with the chrome shovels and wearing o&b hard hats would be set up pretty quickly.
 
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