Designated hitter coming to NL?

#26      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
Bomb Squad 217 said:
Thats my thoughts as well. Either add it to the NL or take it from the AL. Seems silly to me to have different rules. A good argument, I think, is do you want the nearly sure fire out from the pitcher batting or the chance to add a great hitter to the lineup. Adding a great hitter adds more excitement IMO. Makes the offense better and gives the fans more reason to come out and watch a game. Gives the manager different lineup options obviously. Im sure theres plenty of other +/- both ways but looking at it, why not just add the DH to the NL too?
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I'm with you, let's get on the page as far as rules, but I wish/ hope MLB will take it further with interleague play and such. With or without, interleague play is a terrible format to drum up a rivalry between teams/fans that aren't racing each other for a playoff spot or division. I propose, if we are in the same boat as far as rules, let's open the schedule to a complete round robin and seed the playoffs accordingly. I would definitely keep the six divisions, but it think at the very least, every team should have a series against one another.

The proof is in the numbers, having a DH doesn't equate to many more runs scored, 4.38 with to 4.11 without(based on last season). I say, if we're going to have this rule league wide, do it and you get your tiny scoring spike, but atleast be at the forefront of the major sports and try to make the regular season and playoffs more compelling than it already is. I would think, if my team was playing the Mariners in the final week, it would be a lot more interesting if by chance both teams were competing for that 4th wild card spot or for a higher seed and home field advantage.
 
#27      

Bomb Squad 217

B
Bomb Squad 217
Ryllini said:
I'm with you, let's get on the page as far as rules, but I wish/ hope MLB will take it further with interleague play and such. With or without, interleague play is a terrible format to drum up a rivalry between teams/fans that aren't racing each other for a playoff spot or division. I propose, if we are in the same boat as far as rules, let's open the schedule to a complete round robin and seed the playoffs accordingly. I would definitely keep the six divisions, but it think at the very least, every team should have a series against one another.

The proof is in the numbers, having a DH doesn't equate to many more runs scored, 4.38 with to 4.11 without(based on last season). I say, if we're going to have this rule league wide, do it and you get your tiny scoring spike, but atleast be at the forefront of the major sports and try to make the regular season and playoffs more compelling than it already is. I would think, if my team was playing the Mariners in the final week, it would be a lot more interesting if by chance both teams were competing for that 4th wild card spot or for a higher seed and home field advantage.
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I didnt realize the scoring differential was so minimal. I would have thought it would have been at least a 1 run difference. If thats the case, I think its strengthens the case for removing the DH. Although, I understand the case for keeping it solely to protect high value pitchers.
 
#28      

illini8507

illini8507
illini8507
one of the big arguments for DH is that it keeps aging players in the game, and that removing it would put a lot of players out of work, and thus the union would never allow it. On the flip side of that, my opinion is that having the DH, while it doesn't take away the job of bench players, they are still going to be there, it greatly diminishes their roles on teams. How often do bench players in the AL get at bats late in game, or get to play the field for a few innings due to the double switch? I don't know if theres a place that tracks AB's for bench players, I guess if I really wanted to know I could just look up some players individual stats on baseball-reference, but id be willing to bet that bench guys in the AL are getting a lot less playing time than in the NL, because theres less need to pinch hit.

If I were a MLB bench player I would be against the DH
 
#30      

Serious Late

Serious Late
Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Serious Late
Illwinsagain said:
Not a fan of the DH. Of course, I am not a fan of interleague play either. I think it waters down the Allstar game and the World Series. No one seems to care. To be fair (as if that is important), if the DH happens in the NL, is should be done over a period of time, so that teams can plan for it. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, don't want to hear a team complaining that they would have signed this FA or not traded that guy, if they knew this was coming. I would think 2-3 years of drafts and FA classes would be long enough, after passing the change.
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If NL teams aren't already planning for the implementation of the DH, then that is their own lack of foresight. I would prefer the AL drop the DH personally, but it couldn't be any more obvious what is actually going to happen here in the near future. I am pretty sure the Cubs front office is already planning as though it will happen, any team not making similar plans is susceptible to being caught with their pants down and have no one to blame but themselves.
 
#31      

ChiCityHoops34

C
DeKalb IL
ChiCityHoops34
I was anti DH but I am going to be a selfish cubs fan and say I am for it just to see Babe Schwarber smack the ball around wrigley for the next 10 years.
 
#33      

Sybok

S
Sybok
SF, AZ, StL amongst other teams are not interested in the DH. While the NL may be willing to listen to arguments for the DH, it's still going to be tough to pass the measure. It may be a bargaining chip that has to be used for ownership to keep QO, but there are other options for negotiating points that can be substituted.
 
#34      

Deleted member 586966

D
Guest
Deleted member 586966
SoxFanCPA said:
Allowing the pitcher to bat is absolute waste of time. Pitching is a full-time gig. They don't have the time to practice hitting and therefore are atrocious at it. It's like having a QB also play defense.
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You could make this same argument with any position and it sounds just as dumb.

_____ is a full-time gig. They just don't have the time to practice _____ and therefore are atrocious at it.

Hanley Ramirez, Matt Kemp, and Jose Bautista are all terrible fielders and plus hitters. Surely they don't have the time to practice fielding so they should get designated fielders.

The point being : there's a tradeoff with virtually every roster spot on the team.
 
#35      

illini8507

illini8507
illini8507
Sybok said:
SF, AZ, StL amongst other teams are not interested in the DH.
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I don't see how you can definitively make this statement, considering the cardinals have the highest win percentage in interleague play of any NL team since it's introduction, and Mo is the one who has sparked this entire discussion.

The Giants would presumably love an opportunity to rest Posey while still keeping his bat in the lineup, and they also have one of the top 3 or 4 nl records in interleague.

And the dbacks play in one of the most hitter friendly parks in all of baseball, and have LaRussa with his hands on the team, who cut his teeth in the AL, and always seemed to have a team in stl with an AL style lineup.

By my estimation, those 3 teams would be some of the most in favor, but that's just conjecture.
 
#36      

Sybok

S
Sybok
illini8507 said:
I don't see how you can definitively make this statement, considering the cardinals have the highest win percentage in interleague play of any NL team since it's introduction, and Mo is the one who has sparked this entire discussion.

The Giants would presumably love an opportunity to rest Posey while still keeping his bat in the lineup, and they also have one of the top 3 or 4 nl records in interleague.

And the dbacks play in one of the most hitter friendly parks in all of baseball, and have LaRussa with his hands on the team, who cut his teeth in the AL, and always seemed to have a team in stl with an AL style lineup.

By my estimation, those 3 teams would be some of the most in favor, but that's just conjecture.
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Because it's already been reported on mlb.com that these teams don't want it.
 
#37      

Sybok

S
Sybok
illini8507 said:
I don't see how you can definitively make this statement, considering the cardinals have the highest win percentage in interleague play of any NL team since it's introduction, and Mo is the one who has sparked this entire discussion.

The Giants would presumably love an opportunity to rest Posey while still keeping his bat in the lineup, and they also have one of the top 3 or 4 nl records in interleague.

And the dbacks play in one of the most hitter friendly parks in all of baseball, and have LaRussa with his hands on the team, who cut his teeth in the AL, and always seemed to have a team in stl with an AL style lineup.

By my estimation, those 3 teams would be some of the most in favor, but that's just conjecture.
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Sybok said:
Because it's already been reported on mlb.com that these teams don't want it.
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Sorry. I got AZ mixed up with Atlanta. Here are a couple of brief comments from the article-

In St. Louis and Cincinnati, in Atlanta and Philadelphia and San Francisco, they like their game just the way it is.
...
There's a willingness to discuss the NL giving the DH a try, but that sentiment is far, far, far from actually changing the rule.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/162492422/designated-hitter-to-nl-debate-continues
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#40      

Sybok

S
Sybok
illini8507 said:
Well that's a pretty good source, lol.
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LOL? I guess Manfred isn't a credible source either.:D

Rob Manfred: No foreseeable change to DH rule coming

"The most likely result on the designated hitter for the foreseeable future is the status quo," Manfred said in an interview with ESPN.com in conjunction with his one-year anniversary as commissioner. "I think the vast majority of clubs in the National League want to stay where they are."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...eseeable-change-designated-hitter-rule-coming
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#41      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
The quarter run per game difference between scoring in the AL versus NL adds up to about a 5 game difference in the standings against league average pitching.

According to the Pythagorean win expectation formula, a team that increased its scoring by a quarter run a game would win about 5 more games a year if everything else stayed the same.

Obviously, if everyone added the DH, then everyone's scoring would go up, and the net effect on records would cancel each other out. The point is, a quarter run per game difference in scoring does add up.
 
#42      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
champaignchris said:
The quarter run per game difference between scoring in the AL versus NL adds up to about a 5 game difference in the standings against league average pitching.

According to the Pythagorean win expectation formula, a team that increased its scoring by a quarter run a game would win about 5 more games a year if everything else stayed the same.

Obviously, if everyone added the DH, then everyone's scoring would go up, and the net effect on records would cancel each other out. The point is, a quarter run per game difference in scoring does add up.
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It definitely does add up especially in a game of inches, which is why the AL had a far better record against the NL and had better records overall. They had 2 teams only win in the 60's, the NL had I believe 5 such teams. They also had many more teams over .500 than the NL did. With current format of different rules, it is glaring to me, but should the leagues both go to the DH and all is equal the extra run push isn't as great or make it more exciting as far as runs crossing the plate. One extra run scored every 5th day is a terrible argument for " who wants to see the pitcher hit"? I love the way the NL game is, but I wish they would make the leagues have the same rules or leave the NL alone and get rid of interleague play (add or subtract) a team and let's play.
 
#43      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
Ryllini said:
It definitely does add up especially in a game of inches, which is why the AL had a far better record against the NL and had better records overall. They had 2 teams only win in the 60's, the NL had I believe 5 such teams. They also had many more teams over .500 than the NL did. With current format of different rules, it is glaring to me, but should the leagues both go to the DH and all is equal the extra run push isn't as great or make it more exciting as far as runs crossing the plate. One extra run scored every 5th day is a terrible argument for " who wants to see the pitcher hit"? I love the way the NL game is, but I wish they would make the leagues have the same rules or leave the NL alone and get rid of interleague play (add or subtract) a team and let's play.
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Yes, I am not alone!
 
#44      

Deleted member 586966

D
Guest
Deleted member 586966
champaignchris said:
The quarter run per game difference between scoring in the AL versus NL adds up to about a 5 game difference in the standings against league average pitching.

According to the Pythagorean win expectation formula, a team that increased its scoring by a quarter run a game would win about 5 more games a year if everything else stayed the same.

Obviously, if everyone added the DH, then everyone's scoring would go up, and the net effect on records would cancel each other out. The point is, a quarter run per game difference in scoring does add up.
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I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take from this. Every time two teams play eachother they use the same rules, so what difference does the bump in run production make? The AL wins more games in interleague because they have a slight advantage from dedicating a roster spot to a slugger, but more importantly I think they have better starters, a natural byproduct of facing good and deep lineups more often.
 
#45      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
DeadIShooter said:
I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take from this. Every time two teams play eachother they use the same rules, so what difference does the bump in run production make? The AL wins more games in interleague because they have a slight advantage from dedicating a roster spot to a slugger, but more importantly I think they have better starters, a natural byproduct of facing good and deep lineups more often.
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I think you are right, the pitching staffs are better all around in the AL, because of what you state. The lineups are deeper, while runs per isn't that much greater, the threats in the lineup a greater.
 
#46      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
DeadIShooter said:
You could make this same argument with any position and it sounds just as dumb.

_____ is a full-time gig. They just don't have the time to practice _____ and therefore are atrocious at it.

Hanley Ramirez, Matt Kemp, and Jose Bautista are all terrible fielders and plus hitters. Surely they don't have the time to practice fielding so they should get designated fielders.

The point being : there's a tradeoff with virtually every roster spot on the team.
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They don't need designated fielders, they can just be the DH and not field.
 
#47      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
ILL in IA said:
They don't need designated fielders, they can just be the DH and not field.
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Designated fielder would almost make more sense, considering this is the only sport where the defense controls the ball at all times. Looks like the commissioner has backed off the issue anyways.