sdfidaho
- Boise, Idaho
The threat of the Federal Government throwing you in jail maybe?....
FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation
- Status
The threat of the Federal Government throwing you in jail maybe?....
..And maybe we didn't dodge a bullet or play dirty.. Maybe those two gentlemen actually played fair. thus, we didn't get many/any high dollar recruits because these two had high moral standards. Which, if so, I greatly amthankful. Wish we could have won more games under them. But I would rather have a blemish free program.
SKane
- Tennessee
..And maybe we didn't dodge a bullet or play dirty.. Maybe those two gentlemen actually played fair. thus, we didn't get many/any high dollar recruits because these two had high moral standards. Which, if so, I greatly amthankful. Wish we could have won more games under them. But I would rather have a blemish free program.
Agree. I think that IL fans will be more proud of our program and more understanding of why we didn't get some of the recruits that we wanted as more information becomes available.
Deleted member 10676
D
Guest
The Two Men Who Could Bring Down College Basketball:
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/two-men-bring-college-basketball-011524387.html
Interesting read on Merle Code and Jim Gatto.
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/two-men-bring-college-basketball-011524387.html
Interesting read on Merle Code and Jim Gatto.
Which coaches are losing the most sleep? Has to be the ones in the elite programs--the money follows the best players. Kansas is Adidas; Kentucky, UNC, and Duke are Nike. I wonder which school would be involved in a bidding war funded by the shoe companies?
Every head coach will plead ignorance, all the time knowing the shoe companies operate on their behalf in the shadows.
I'll pass on the thank you.
The culture and off-the-court problems under Groce were really bad. Weber had some player problems too. And we don't need to thank a coach for not cheating. Do we thank employees when they don't steal ("thank you so much for not stealing from us")?
I'd argue that Groce wasted stacks of U of I cash traveling around and recruiting unobtainable players because he didn't realize he was bringing a knife to a gunfight.
If there's an apology to be made it's from Weber and Groce who drove the program into the ditch while making millions of dollars.
I cant vouch for recruiting travel value under JG or BW but Id hate for any coach to assume that he should stay home if he doesnt want to be sleazy...I know that is stretching your point though.
Thinking of recruiting budgets, I think of Pitino's comment about being so lucky with Bowen. Turns out Adidas was doing the sleaze work for him...no coach travel required
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Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
Here's a viewpoint--allegedly because we don't know if we can trust the New York Post at the possibility an unsourced statement could be "manufactured" for readers like us--that shows the scandal from a father who didn't take $100k from...someone to get his kid into a Louisville rival and now feels tainted anyway.
I saw that article too. I think the player referenced (by an unnamed Dad) was Donovan Mitchell. It will be interesting on how many of these leads will be chased by FBI or NCAA. There will be alot of bunny trails,...and even FBI resources are not unlimited.
https://www.slcdunk.com/2017/9/28/1...-on-ncaa-louisville-university-scandal-adidas
https://www.slcdunk.com/2017/9/28/1...-on-ncaa-louisville-university-scandal-adidas
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Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
But then at what point to we say these are no longer "student-athletes," with the emphasis on "student"? If you pay a student for playing, he (or she, though that's not an issue) is a pro athlete. Let's stop the pretense of them being students, stop distracting them with going to class, and just have them represent the school like pro teams represent the cities where they're located. It's no different than the Cubs representing Chicago, for example.
I'm old enough to have had a football player living in my dorm. Imagine that. And not one of the fancy dorms, just plain old university housing. Yeah, I know, I'm living in the past. If we're lucky, we're all going to do that.
AND STAY OFF MY LAWN!
I'm old enough to have had a football player living in my dorm. Imagine that. And not one of the fancy dorms, just plain old university housing. Yeah, I know, I'm living in the past. If we're lucky, we're all going to do that.
AND STAY OFF MY LAWN!
Seems as if this thread has died down a bit. Do we feel more comfortable that BU may come out of this okay? Looks as if, whatever happens to BU, it should not affect Illinois other than whatever happens to BU, if anything. Contrary to many people here, I am not as confident of the FBI's success in securing convictions or getting these people to trial or really getting much of anything accomplished. Lots of splashy headlines but in the end, not a lot will be accomplished. We have been hearing that this is just the tip of the iceberg and more will come out. Well, it's been a week and not a lot more has come out, has it? I could be wrong. And of course, it is still early but seems as if more would have surfaced by now. Sure some minor people will or may end up in jail or at the very least lose their careers (although, in a few years will probably turn up again somewhere). I don't have specific examples but seems that the FBI has botched as many cases or whatever as they have successfully concluded them, at least big time major cases such as this. But I can only say that after reading the newspapers for the last, oh, hundred years or so. Again, nothing specific pops into my mind. I firmly believe that Pitino will get off. He has the money to hire expensive good lawyers who will get him off. He may face some kind of NCAA action but that is about it. He will end up at a mid major some day and work his way back to a major school.
kcib8130
- Parts Unknown
Replace "FBI" with "NCAA" and your post gets way more accurate.
I think any D1 coach is still potentially at risk, until we get the word that Gatto (Adidas) and whomever from Nike have told all they know and the FBI has followed up on everything they plan on following up. And then we have to see what idiot thing the NCAA comes up with to save face.
So it's tough to answer your question. In terms of "was Underwood in imminent danger of being charged?" I'd have to probably go with no, unless Evans told them something and they just haven't acted on it yet.
But in a general "is Underwood completely out of danger for being implicated," I'd say he and (various estimates I've seen) from 20% to 80% of all D1 coaches are likely at some point coaching teams on which are players who are being paid by shoe companies, or coaching teams on which at least one assistant has taken money to set up a meeting.
So I do not think things dying down on this forum means that we're in the clear at all. I do agree that given Illinois' utter lack of 4 and 5 star recruiting under Groce that in all likelihood Groce was not actively participating in this pay-for-play system. I think in all likelihood Groce was running a clean program. Kudos and fair play to him.
But the bigger picture of who is going to be getting charged by the FBI is still wide open. They're only just now interviewing the original arrest subjects. Those people are only last 7 days giving their statements. It takes time to go corroborate those statements and if warranted issue more arrests do more interviews.
I would argue for the next 12 months at least, or until the FBI actually issues a statement that they're finished, we won't really know. And I would also argue that the NCAA could still do some crack-headed enforcement action based only on its own need to cover its !!! with regard to protecting its Storied Programs. I swear schools like Illinois - big enough to matter, but not big enough that anyone cares if they get accused - exist only so the NCAA can point at someone and say "See, we did something!"
So in that semi-conspiracy theory based on bitter experience as an Illini fan since the 70s... we're *never* quite always out of the woods. The minute a national scandal happens, they'll look around to see if the usual suspects are available. Illinois is one of those. We've had 3 major scandals in 40 years (2 football, 1 basketball) that I can remember. There will be people at the NCAA trying to pin as much of this on schools like Illinois as they can, so that they themselves can elude further scrutiny.
And Chicago will be dogpiling on like they always do as well. Already I have seen them attempt to tie Underwood "associations with Evans" to Illinois. If they ever find a shred of evidence that sticks, they will be promoting the story line non stop for months.
So on all 3 fronts, we're in no way out of the woods yet. Sorry.
Roast me. If I'm full of crap or too full of conspiracy theory, please take a moment and explain, because I'd like to let go of this opinion a bit as well.
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Thanks for a lucid, well thought out response. Probably not what I wanted to hear but it was appreciated.
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U.S. Attorneys are not in the habit of commencing dubious prosecutions. Couple this with the fact that this is the result of an FBI investigation which could have taken its own sweet time to collect evidence (Who was any the wiser ? How long had this investigation been going on ?) and in which informants, phone taps and wires were very possibly used. (And now, once the cat is out of the bag, subpoenas.) Draw your own conclusions. No, this ain’t the NCAA.
Just do a search for "FBI botched" or "FBI mishandled." You'll get plenty of examples.
RichBradIllini
- Peoria
That may be but with wiretaps and face to face informants I'd say they have the 10 arrested dead to rights. Beyond that, if it comes down to assistants naming names there would have to be more evidence than just calling someone out; i.e., head coaches. Proof would be hard to come by in those situations unless they have hard evidence. I would think the FBI would have to have more than Evans just saying Underwood knew.
Of course, just having Evans name Underwood, with proof or not, would have enough of an impact to cause some pain
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RichBradIllini
- Peoria
That's highly doubtful. Patino's best, greatest hope is an ESPN analyst. I mean if they'll hire Pearle, they'll hire anybody.
Maybe Pitino can lend his name/likeness to Ball and that can get the BBB brand moving along? Wouldn't that be ironic, be part of the reason an outside brand could or would compete against the big boy sneaker companies long term? sarcasm here....
Good point. I should have added that myself. To me, though, both mean pretty much the same thing. He's gonna be back. He may just not have the stomach for coaching again anyway. He is 65 so I imagine there weren't all that many years left anyway (yes, I know Coach K is 70 but still…). Bottom line, he will be back and he will be well compensated and it will be as if nothing happened except people will point and whisper when he passes by. But he probably has a thick enough skin to not notice.
This. I would add that anyone thinking that any more news on additional suspects would be coming out by now is dreaming. The 10 suspects are lawyered up. Even if they are going to cooperate, it will take time to work out those deals. Doubt much has happened yet. Since Code is a former disgruntled Nike employee that ran the EBYL, and the FBI has subpoenaed the EBYL records, it is possible that Nike schools will ultimately take just as big a hit as the Adidas ones. Just like Al Capone, it is the income tax implications that will ensnare a lot of people, including players and families. The money laundering will get the agents and shoe guys. Head coaches will probably mostly skate, unless they have hard evidence showing that they actively participated or approved the "conspiracy." The NCAA and school trustees, who will feel compelled to fire them when their teams are implicated, are probably a bigger worry for the head coaches.
so what is difference in school offering a dad an assistant or other job if kid goes to the school versus a shoe co. offering a dad an "advisory contract"...for say 100k or so for the kid to go to a sponsored school.?
Tremendous differences:
First, it does not involve a third party (i.e., a shoe company). Second, the school, can't offer a dad or parent "another job." The days where you can hire relatives in "other jobs," including coordinators, etc. are long gone. Third, there is a strict limit on the number of assistant jobs, with distinct responsibilities so a school would have to sacrifice greatly just to get an unqualified parent. You can bet that shoe company would not offer one of their top 4 and only positions of leadership to a parent either.
So whats the FBIs goal? Are they looking to imprison as many people as possible? Probably not. Personally, I think theyll be targeting those whom they view as enabling or creating the criminal environment, with a focus towards the money laundering activities. I think most coaches and players implicated wont be the focus of the FBI beyond pressuring them to divulge additional evidence and leads.
Where I think it gets interesting is with Pitino and other big ****s as hes refered to in this article. It certainly sounds like Pitino is influencing Adidas to commit fraud to his benefit. Thats a big deal in my opinion, and much different than passively accepting favors offered by Adidas. If thats the case I think its reasonable to expect the FBI to find evidence of other high profile coaches influencing Adidas in a similar manner.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...-rick-pitino-coach-2-federal-complaint-source
Where I think it gets interesting is with Pitino and other big ****s as hes refered to in this article. It certainly sounds like Pitino is influencing Adidas to commit fraud to his benefit. Thats a big deal in my opinion, and much different than passively accepting favors offered by Adidas. If thats the case I think its reasonable to expect the FBI to find evidence of other high profile coaches influencing Adidas in a similar manner.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...-rick-pitino-coach-2-federal-complaint-source
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