FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation

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#1,226      
IlliniJim20
Not following what the FBI has to do with potential NCAA violations? Money changing hands sure, but who is dumb enough to keep records?
 
#1,227      
Ubermensch
That's okay. I didn't want a revitalized basketball program anyway. Wouldn't want to make football look any worse.
 
#1,228      
FiveStar
TheGMan said:
Normally I try to be level headed with these things. But this isn’t good. Underwood might not get brought into the bribery scandal. But this increases the chances that he gets hit with NCAA sanctions. At the very least for having lack of institutional control.
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Can you establish lack of institutional control for a coach who was only there for one year?

Assuming BU is clean with the FBI, isn't his saving grace for any NCAA infractions that he was only there one year?
 
#1,229      
sacraig
BigJIllini said:
Have a bad feeling we are going to be looking for a new basketball coach again sooner than we thought.

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BREAKING: New York grand jury looking for NCAA violations by OSU basketball players

http://newsok.com/article/5567594?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ShareBar-Twitter
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I still think head coaches will turn out to be relatively safe from FBI indictment in all of this regardless of how many assistants get caught up in it. It makes no sense for an agency or a company like Adidas to be paying off multiple members of the same staff. The circle of trust would be too big and the chances of getting cost that much larger. It also makes no sense for them to deal directly with head coaches, particularly when they already have an assistant on the books. In other words, I'd be willing to bet that Underwood has, at the very least, enough plausible deniability to avoid any kind of criminal charges whether he was privy to these dealings or not.

That doesn't prevent the NCAA from coming down on him in some fashion eventually, but I would also be willing to bet that the NCAA doesn't make any dramatic moves like that until the FBI investigation is completed. They'll probably want the whole picture laid out before sanctioning anyone. If, at the end of it all, 50 or 150 coaches really are implicated, that basically touches the entire NCAA basketball world, and I'd be surprised if much happens to any coaches that weren't directly implicated. There would be no coaches left.

In other words, I still feel like we are fairly safe based on what we know now.
 
#1,230      
EJ33
icengineer said:
Why would the Feds give two hoots about NCAA violations? It's the money laundering and bribery which are federal crimes that they are policing. Sure, I can see how some NCCA violations come out in the course of things, but that will be incidental. The FBI couldn't care less about NCAA infractions, the vast majority of which are not crimes in the legal sense.
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Looks like they care.
 
#1,231      
Deleted member 10676
sacraig said:
I still think head coaches will turn out to be relatively safe from FBI indictment in all of this regardless of how many assistants get caught up in it. It makes no sense for an agency or a company like Adidas to be paying off multiple members of the same staff. The circle of trust would be too big and the chances of getting cost that much larger. It also makes no sense for them to deal directly with head coaches, particularly when they already have an assistant on the books. In other words, I'd be willing to bet that Underwood has, at the very least, enough plausible deniability to avoid any kind of criminal charges whether he was privy to these dealings or not.

That doesn't prevent the NCAA from coming down on him in some fashion eventually, but I would also be willing to bet that the NCAA doesn't make any dramatic moves like that until the FBI investigation is completed. They'll probably want the whole picture laid out before sanctioning anyone. If, at the end of it all, 50 or 150 coaches really are implicated, that basically touches the entire NCAA basketball world, and I'd be surprised if much happens to any coaches that weren't directly implicated. There would be no coaches left.

In other words, I still feel like we are fairly safe based on what we know now.
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Problem with this is, we basically know nothing now compared to what will be known down the road.
 
#1,232      
ChazzReinhold
#1,233      
Deleted member 10676
Only good thing about OSU is, if Brad Underwood is involved, Travis Ford is probably really involved.
 
#1,234      
Chris Yates
TheGMan said:
So basically Lamont Evans sang like a canary.
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I spent seven years as a federal prosecutor and then ten more years defending criminal cases in federal court. The United States Attorneys, their assistants, and the FBI always start with lower-level figures and give them the ability to limit their exposure by flipping on others up the food chain. It's amazing what a powerful incentive that can be. Suffice it to say that the assistant coaches have VERY good reasons to flip on their head coaches.
 
#1,235      
whovous
The subpoena basically demands every piece of paper and every email since 2014 which names any coach or player in any way.

There is a technical term for a subpoena of this sort. It is called a "fishing expedition." It says tell us all you know about any violations you MIGHT have committed.

Now, I'm not saying the subpoena is nothing, but I would be a lot more concerned if the demands had greater specificity. I agree with icengineer that this same subpoena is likely being sent to a lot of schools. I would add that it is so broad and generic in form that they don't have to change much more than the caption when moving from one school to another.
 
#1,237      
EJ33
miketherevelator said:
They're all going to. Basketball coaches do not ever expect to face heavy prison time. That's why the estimate of coaches and asst coaches going down has ranged up to 150.
Those of you who think this isn't eventually going to touch Underwood are living in a dreamworld.
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You're probably right. I'm just hoping the big story at OSU is Jawun Evans' recruitment. Lamont didn't recruit him, but I'm guessing he knows how Evans ended up there.
 
#1,238      
sbillini
SeattleSlim said:
Is it ironic or appropriate that Evans is wearing shoe company gear in that photo of him leaving the courthouse?
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Who dresses like that when making a court appearance in which he is being charged with six counts including bribery and related offenses? A man that's made a deal, that's who! :gossip::clappy:
 
#1,240      
Deleted member 10676
RedRocksIllini said:
?? Not if it only centers around Lamont Evans. Evans didn't go to OSU until after Underwood was hired, correct?
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From the article.

The subpoena is far-reaching in the types of records being demanded, requesting emails, text messages, cellular phone records, social media messages, computer records and a host of other documents and electronic records covering the time period from Jan. 1, 2014 to the present.
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#1,241      
sacraig
miketherevelator said:
Problem with this is, we basically know nothing now compared to what will be known down the road.
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Well of course, but you can't base your actions on what you will know in the future. You have to base them on what you know now. Based on that, I'd say there is still little to make me believe Underwood is in legal jeopardy. The NCAA reaction is a bit harder to divine.
 
#1,243      
sacraig
icengineer said:
While you obviously are a bajillion times more knowledgeable on this stuff then I, aren't the Feds more likely wanting/expecting them to turn on the money guys? It just seems unreasonable to me that the FBI wants to bring down some dirty head coaches when the real culprits here are the guys doling out the cash. Even if some of these assistants admit that their HC's were aware of what was going on, if the FBI can't prove money was passing through them then there isn't much to be gained on the FBI's part to pursue them. The financial guys and shoe companies on the other hand......
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This would be my take. I still find it plausible that most head coaches aren't even directly involved, so it would be essentially impossible to get an assistant to flop on them if there is nothing to flip about. The money guys are the real issue and likely the bigger fish here, IMO.
 
#1,244      
skyIdub
Well...several head coaches were previously assistant coaches within the time frame of these investigations. So while it may not directly touch them as a head coach, perhaps they were involved in these types of dealings as assistant coaches? Food for thought.:illinois:
 
#1,245      
sacraig
skyIdub said:
Well...several head coaches were previously assistant coaches within the time frame of these investigations. So while it may not directly touch them as a head coach, perhaps they were involved in these types of dealings as assistant coaches? Food for thought.:illinois:
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Of course. There's no telling which assistant coaches were on the take and which remained clean, and how those relationships persisted once they became head coaches. However, speculating on who was and wasn't dirty in their past is just that, speculative. We can't really assume anything there without evidence of it.

You also have to consider that a coach that was dirty as an assistant but cleaned up when becoming head coach because it was now the assistant's job to get down into the dirt, then they might actually be safe. Many fewer current assistants are likely to have direct knowledge of whatever past indiscretions might exist, particularly since these transactions would necessarily involve as few people as possible.

In other words, unless the FBI flips the assistants to get to the money men and then also flips the money men, I'd be surprised if any coaches not currently (or recently) engaged in these practices get hit.
 
#1,246      
RedRocksIllini
icengineer said:
Could be so. But I have to believe, perhaps wrongly, that the people making the hires and vetting their prospects, become aware of, or at least suspect, who 'could be' on the take. And opt not to hire them as head coaches. Assistant coaches? Sure, make sure the plausible deniability is there at all times though! At least with the NCAA many decide the cost/benefit ratio is acceptable. But that is likely not going to be the case moving forward now that the FBI is involved.

Maybe I am mis-remembering, but didn't a lot of people think that Evans was much more likely to get the OSU gig, rather then Boynton? Perhaps they were aware?
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Maybe Evans was offered HC and turned it down because he couldn't afford the pay cut.
 
#1,247      
Tevo
BigJIllini said:
Have a bad feeling we are going to be looking for a new basketball coach again sooner than we thought.

NewsOK‏
@NewsOK

BREAKING: New York grand jury looking for NCAA violations by OSU basketball players

http://newsok.com/article/5567594?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ShareBar-Twitter
Click to expand...

In requesting that information, does it necessarily become part of the public record of the case, and therefore available to anyone with a FOIA request? What a convenient way for, say, the NCAA to investigate a school. I would be surprised if the NCAA could demand all of those documents, but maybe they can get them as table scraps left behind by the FBI and the NY AG.
 
#1,248      
Tevo
IlliniJim20 said:
Not following what the FBI has to do with potential NCAA violations? Money changing hands sure, but who is dumb enough to keep records?
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Will you take a personal check? Great, and can I get a receipt for that? Perfect.
 
#1,249      
ILL_INI
sbillini said:
Who dresses like that when making a court appearance in which he is being charged with six counts including bribery and related offenses? A man that's made a deal, that's who! :gossip::clappy:
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I was wondering the same thing but didn't make that conclusion, although I think you might be on to something. It's definitely odd and was wondering if there was supposed to be some message by wearing all Nike gear.
 
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